JD Power Surveys

[Arkaign]

A side conversation in another thread brought me to posting this. I'd like to hear from the AT Garage community about the JD Power & Associates 'studies'. Whatever you think about it, pro/con/indifferent, I'd like to hear. With that said, my personal take :

I think the fact that they look at a car's initial delivery quality is interesting, and valuable in the way that you want to know if a model is being sold with a lot of common problems. I wish they hadn't shortened the final checkup on the car's progress from 5 to 3 years, but I guess we just have to be satisfied with that for now.

The major problem I have with the JD Power propaganda, as I might put it, is this : They don't follow the car AFTER the 3 years at all. They don't look at a 5, 7, or 10 year recap to see how the vehicle fared in the long haul. As most people will attest, a serious engine problem rarely shows itself in the first few years of a vehicle's lifespan. True longevity of 150k-200k and higher mileage on the drivetrain simply can't be detemined with such narrow-scoped surveys.

In short, I think it's a survey only valuable to people who keep their cars a very short time before trading to something new again. There's nothing wrong with that, as a matter of fact it's very common these days for a person of certain income and tastes to constantly have a new car. I just think it does a disservice to the majority of vehicle purchasers who intend to get at least 5 years / 100k miles out of the product.

Also, does anyone here know of any studies/surveys that follow makes/models in long-term reliability?

Thanks, AT Garage Forum, I'm looking forward to the replies!

 

[Pliablemoose]

Consumer Reports keeps data on cars a bit longer, they put out a special issue about autos.

They also have a pretty good subscription based website, or you could hit the library.

You have to keep in mind that they're surveying Joe Blow about fairly sophisticated pieces of machinery, your friendly neighborhood mechanic is a pretty good resource for what stands up well.

 

[Vette73]

As a former auto tech I can tell you anything after 3 years will not be 100% based on the car, it will tell you more about the people that buy them. The first several years build quality will govern most, not all, problems. But after that the owner will run the quality as much if not more then the car i have seen cars that are 10 years old and have over 100k yet they lok and run like new as the owner stayed on top of maintaince and did not beat on it.Yet I have installed tranmissions in cars that are only 3 years old and have less then 50k because hof the way the owner treats, or should I say mistreats, their car.

Also JD powers uses a scientific survey and setup in their ratings. Consumer reports does not. CR ONLY gets reviews from people that pay for their magizine and maybe website. JDpowers every person that buys a car has a equal chance of being survied so the results are scientific.

When looking at a used car that is over 3 years old lok and seê how it was taken care of. Then lok and sêe if there are any thing that sêems to break a lot in that car series. Like honda use to have bad auto trans, GM intake gaskets, toyota sludge issues, etc...

 

[theeedude]

Seems to me that criticisms of these surveys are starting now that American cars are starting to do well. I don't see why people just assume Americans can't build a good car. Pretty racist and offensive, if you ask me.

 

[Pacfanweb]

Originally posted by: senseamp
Seems to me that criticisms of these surveys are starting now that American cars are starting to do well. I don't see why people just assume Americans can't build a good car.

This is exactly what I was about to write.

Funny how people just assumed all the foreign cars were the best when they were the only ones getting good JD Powers ratings, but now that the domestics are displacing them a bit, people are starting to question them.

Bottom line is, domestic makers are building a much better car than they did 15 years ago, and they have been for a few years now.

Takes awhile for perception to change, and that is beginning to show up now, too.

20 years ago, Jap cars were not perceived to be the supreme product that they are considered by many today. US maker were making crap by that time, and during the time it took the US makers to straighten their stuff out, the Jap makers were winning the perception battle (rightly so for the most part).
Takes awhile for that perception to change back.

 

[Pliablemoose]

Originally posted by: Pacfanweb

Originally posted by: senseamp
Seems to me that criticisms of these surveys are starting now that American cars are starting to do well. I don't see why people just assume Americans can't build a good car.

This is exactly what I was about to write.

Funny how people just assumed all the foreign cars were the best when they were the only ones getting good JD Powers ratings, but now that the domestics are displacing them a bit, people are starting to question them.

Bottom line is, domestic makers are building a much better car than they did 15 years ago, and they have been for a few years now.

Takes awhile for perception to change, and that is beginning to show up now, too.

20 years ago, Jap cars were not perceived to be the supreme product that they are considered by many today. US maker were making crap by that time, and during the time it took the US makers to straighten their stuff out, the Jap makers were winning the perception battle (rightly so for the most part).
Takes awhile for that perception to change back.

So true, Consumer Reports still puts a halo on anything built by Toyota or Honda.

 

[Pacfanweb]

Originally posted by: Pliablemoose

Originally posted by: Pacfanweb

Originally posted by: senseamp
Seems to me that criticisms of these surveys are starting now that American cars are starting to do well. I don't see why people just assume Americans can't build a good car.

This is exactly what I was about to write.

Funny how people just assumed all the foreign cars were the best when they were the only ones getting good JD Powers ratings, but now that the domestics are displacing them a bit, people are starting to question them.

Bottom line is, domestic makers are building a much better car than they did 15 years ago, and they have been for a few years now.

Takes awhile for perception to change, and that is beginning to show up now, too.

20 years ago, Jap cars were not perceived to be the supreme product that they are considered by many today. US maker were making crap by that time, and during the time it took the US makers to straighten their stuff out, the Jap makers were winning the perception battle (rightly so for the most part).
Takes awhile for that perception to change back.

So true, Consumer Reports still puts a halo on anything built by Toyota or Honda.

And that is further proof that PERCEPTION is hard to change, and it affects everyone, including the people who do reviews.

 

[SVT Cobra]

Yes this is me, and not someone who hacked my account:

While I agree American cars are on the rise once again, the japanese still have them in the small things like refinement and driver position, and not making a car look cheap. And, that's to be expected, as they have been producing better cars longer for the past 15 years.

 

[Summitdrinker]

I see flaws in both JD and consumer reports

for one thing is surveying owners of cars is flawed period........owners can lie, not be honest

make there car out to worse or better than it really was/is

well maybe I am bias, but I would have to say certian people who bought expensive cars don't want to admit that they have had plenty of problems or more problems than they will say. I can think of few brands of cars were I think those type of people are like that............................................you guys guess which ones they are?

I know people in real life (well not the internet) that are like that, they brag up there trucks/car and say they haven't had any problems but they have.

ps, here is one example, the girl I live with (LOL) has a 2006 hemi jeep grand cherrekee, loaded to the max....................she bought it new (against my recommendation) she loved it, bragged it up . well she has 45,000 miles on it, and she wants it turned in under the lemon law now, going threw the process now. is it junk? yes it's a lemon, but not as bad as she is making it out to be.
I thought maybe I was wrong, as the first 6 months it was perfect, not a problem. then the problems started, and it just keeps getting worse. I figured she would have electical problems from day one, she didn't until it was a year old. she wants it lemon lawed becuase of the front axle keeps going out (well the seal on the end keeps leaking) even after they replaced the whole front T drive.

see one flaw with JD here? if she took the survey at 6 months or less she would given the jeep a perfect score, now................junk

 

[Arkaign]

Hmm, I never trusted JD Power, regardless of who they say is good/bad. The survey time is just too brief to be useful as an indicator of vehicle longevity on the long term, such as 150-200k mileage or 10-year quality.

American and Japanese companies both make outstanding products, but some terrible ones as well. You simply can't look at the first 3 years and know much of anything about how it will do 10 years from now.

 

[desy]

If you are saying you trust CR then instead of JD then you are making an even bigger mistake. Their statistics are way out of wack.
http://www.allpar.com/cr.html
If you go to True Delta's website they bash both.

What you eventually find with the top 3 or 4 companies is that comonalities show up.
For example a Civic does well no matter who is reporting on it.

 

[Pliablemoose]

Originally posted by: desy
If you are saying you trust CR then instead of JD then you are making an even bigger mistake. Their statistics are way out of wack.
http://www.allpar.com/cr.html
If you go to True Delta's website they bash both.

What you eventually find with the top 3 or 4 companies is that comonalities show up.
For example a Civic does well no matter who is reporting on it.

Yep, I was surveyed this year, plugged in some data on my cars, but it was lame, they don't differentiate between the gas & diesel versions of the F250. They really have no grasp of the light truck market at all. After the survey I decided I wouldn't put as much faith in their reviews of cars.