Java sucks.

[Capone]

I'm taking both VB and Java this semester. Everything in VB is so much easier it is to work with. So far I can't see why someone would use java over VB, other than cost. Yet my Java teacher praises java like it is THE language to know. What am I missing here?

 

[NuclearNed]

I like Java because it is based on C, the holy mother of all languages.

But keep in mind that MS has largely discontinued all Java support. So I would expect its use to diminish rapidly over time.

 

[beyonddc]

Java is better than VB because it can compile in any platforms. Although Java runs pretty slow due to the Virtual Machine, I still think overall, Java is still better than VB because of compatiablity and portablity.

But if you think Java is a pain, I guess you haven't take C or C++ yet.

Java is meant to be lazy programming which does all your memory management using the Garbage Collection technique while in C++, you've to do that all by your own.

 

[FeathersMcGraw]

The primary promise of Java is portability, which students don't care about, but many industry software developers do.

The language is also useful for enforcing certain aspects of object-oriented programming discipline (which again, most students don't care about).

 

[SagaLore]

I suspect that Flash will replace Java as far as a cross-platform support language.

 

[NuclearNed]

Originally posted by: beyonddc
Java is better than VB because it can compile in any platforms. Although Java runs pretty slow due to the Virtual Machine, I still think overall, Java is still better than VB because of compatiablity and portablity.


But if you think Java is a pain, I guess you haven't take C or C++ yet.


Java is meant to be lazy programming which does all your memory management using the Garbage Collection technique while in C++, you've to do that all by your own.

You think C & C++ are pains? You kids today. Back in the day we programmed in assembly language while our instructor hurled insults and pelted us with stones. And we liked it. No wonder America is going to Hell in a handbasket...




:laugh:

 

[jinduy]

Originally posted by: NuclearNed

Originally posted by: beyonddc

Java is better than VB because it can compile in any platforms. Although Java runs pretty slow due to the Virtual Machine, I still think overall, Java is still better than VB because of compatiablity and portablity.





But if you think Java is a pain, I guess you haven't take C or C++ yet.





Java is meant to be lazy programming which does all your memory management using the Garbage Collection technique while in C++, you've to do that all by your own.

You think C & C++ are pains? You kids today. Back in the day we programmed in assembly language while our instructor hurled insults and pelted us with stones. And we liked it. No wonder America is going to Hell in a handbasket...









:laugh:

ugh i did some assembly coding for this one class... it's such a pain. however, it made me appreciate oop much much more.

 

[Capone]

actually I have taken 1 semester of c++ but we didn't really get into the major stuff. just got up to a little more than arrays. I'd have to take advanced c++ to get into the stuff you are talking about. I think my java teacher just sucks at teaching. She tries teaching objects as dogs, myDog, yourDog, crap like that. basically everything that I've learned in that class, I've learned on my own doing the homework. If I would have wanted to do that I would've bought "Learn java in 30 days" or something instead of paying all this money for the class and textbooks.

 

[StageLeft]

Yep Java sucks Well, not entirely, but with visual studio .net Microsoft answered a lot of the benefits of Java, and more importantly with VB you can create most applications far, far faster than with Java or anything else.

 

It's easier to code apps with VB than Java, true. BUT that is also its weak point. Sure VB is good for coding quick-little apps, but get a team of unseasoned developers and have them code an enterprise app in VB and watch it fall apart. Point is, Java tends to attact a more trained lot of coders, VB is mostly for amateurs. Not to say you cannot take good developers and have them code good apps in VB (Descartes will be here shortly to mention that ) but in my experience that has not been what happens often in the real world.

 

[dabuddha]

Java rules. It's so damned easy to program in!

 

[Chu]

First, are we talking about "old" VB or VB.net? They are COMPLETLY different, with VB.net essentially being C# with bastardized syntax.

Secondly, VB is a tool good for one very specific purpose -- putting together simple GUI based windows applications quickly. If you try to do anything much more complicated then this, you start running into brick walls because VB's notion of an Object is severly underpowered for when you need real OO features.

 

[rh71]

Corporate apps (internal or for clients)... VB or Java ? I'd have to say the latter.

 

[Whitecloak]

VB is a RAD. Java is used mainly where more serious programs are needed - threading etc.

 

[StageLeft]

but get a team of unseasoned developers and have them code an enterprise app in VB and watch it fall apart.

As opposed to an unseasoned team of developers making something in Java?

VB is mostly for amateurs.

That is patently untrue. VB is, if I recall, the most popular language in the world now, and it's not just "learn vb in 21 days" developers. Almost every developer I know uses VB. There are a couple of guys who use Java, and one I know who uses C# (which is only marginally different from vb.net in capabilities).

The vast majority of business apps can be effectively created using VB, and in shorter time than Java.

Of course with vb.net you gain more power than standard vb had, and it's truly object oriented.

Corporate apps (internal or for clients)... VB or Java ? I'd have to say the latter.

Why?

 

[rh71]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Corporate apps (internal or for clients)... VB or Java ? I'd have to say the latter.

Why?

Cross-platform... write once, deploy to everyone in every client environment.

Point is, in a money-making setting... that's a big benefit over VB.

 

[torpid]

They're both pretty good, unless you mean regular VB. VB.net is certainly no worse than java. The only thing I've encountered that java does better than .net is proxies. Java has more options, I'm not sure how advanced VB's proxy systems are. Though they are there. .net's garbage collector is one of, if not the, best in the business.

 

[Rainsford]

Since when does a programmer judge a language on how easy it is to use instead of how well the written programs perform their task?

"Oh, well I was going to write this real time autopilot system in C, but since VB is so much EASIER, I think I'll use that."

Those people who think like this should probably go into a field where that sort of crap is accepted and even sought after, like MIS or something, and leave the regular programming to people who are able to evaluate the languages on their technical merits instead of how EASY they are.

 

[Jzero]

Ease of use isn't a "technical merit?"
Let's face it, Lisp has it's merits, but its arcane syntax doesn't exactly make it a pleasure to use.

I don't see why you would not write your app in a language that is easier to use as long as it is technically capable of accomplishing the goal.

"Well, I could have written that Farenheit to Celsius converter in VB...it would be much easier, but C has more technical merits, so I'm going to use that."

 

[Anubis]

screw java try programming in FORTRAN< god damn i hate this language i so old it shoudl just DIE allready

 

Originally posted by: torpid
They're both pretty good, unless you mean regular VB. VB.net is certainly no worse than java. The only thing I've encountered that java does better than .net is proxies. Java has more options, I'm not sure how advanced VB's proxy systems are. Though they are there. .net's garbage collector is one of, if not the, best in the business.

If you are going to use VB.NET you might as well just use C#. It's a better language with better syntax.

 

[XZeroII]

Originally posted by: Chu
First, are we talking about "old" VB or VB.net? They are COMPLETLY different, with VB.net essentially being C# with bastardized syntax.



Secondly, VB is a tool good for one very specific purpose -- putting together simple GUI based windows applications quickly. If you try to do anything much more complicated then this, you start running into brick walls because VB's notion of an Object is severly underpowered for when you need real OO features.

I would have to disagree. I have not run into a single thing that I cannot do in VB that I could in Java with the exception of cross platforming. Then again, this is jus off the top of my head.


I actually find Java to be kind of appealing in some ways, but I hate it in others. I think the BIGGEST problem is that there is not a good Java IDE. All of them that I have tried are terrible compared to Visual Studio (eclipse and JBuilder). I also don't like how things are not very standardized. I forget the specific examples, but think of controls. In .NET, you always have a Text property for the control's text (Textbox, Label, ComboBox, etc...). In Java, they have different properties for different controls. Not all of them use Text. It is really irritating trying to remember which is which.

I'll stick with C# and VB.NET. They are much easier and nicer to use, IMO.

 

[torpid]

Yeah but one irritating thing is that some classes in .net use .Length and some use .Count ... argh

 

[Templeton]

If you want to develop a windows gui app, there is little reason not to use vb over java, java has little place on the desktop right now. I say that as someone who absolutely loves programming in java.
However, everyone saying that java will soon be gone, or that there is no reason at all for it couldn't be furthur from the truth. Java is becoming the language of choice for the enterprise with J2EE, businesses are willing to sacrifice some performance if it means they wont be tied into one machine architecture for the next 20 years. Cell phones are another great example of java done right, if you are going to program any mobile app/game, chances are it'll be in j2me. Don't completely dismiss java based only on the desktop gui side of things, it will never be able to offer what native languages do.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: Rainsford
Since when does a programmer judge a language on how easy it is to use instead of how well the written programs perform their task?

"Oh, well I was going to write this real time autopilot system in C, but since VB is so much EASIER, I think I'll use that."

Those people who think like this should probably go into a field where that sort of crap is accepted and even sought after, like MIS or something, and leave the regular programming to people who are able to evaluate the languages on their technical merits instead of how EASY they are.

Written like a CS major who's never actually worked. In the real world ease of use and application development time = money. The easier a product is to learn and use, and subsequently debug, the better for anybody who has to work on it in the future. Why write something in C++ that might be marginally faster than something written in VB if the C++ app takes 3X as long to write? That will be a tough sell come budget time, don't you think?