Japan's Attack on Pearl Harbor - Conspiracy Theory or Conspiracy Fact ?

[CallMeJoe]

...I can not believe you actually said that Gen Eisenhower orderd women to be raped. a man who served his county with distinction and honor. you sir are a parasite...

While I understand your disagreement with wwswimming, it was actually Anarchist420 who made that particular accusation against General Eisenhower.

I shall note again that Anarchist has yet to post any evidence whatever, even a link to the flimsiest and most transparent troll, to support that allegation.

I shan't hold my breath.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Even though I'm an American, I kind of wish the Axis powers had won WWII.

lol. I heard a term recently that applies to folks like you - Hatriots.

Fits perfectly.

 

[Anarchist420]

These threads rock. It's always entertaining to see the crazies try to defy logic and how any crazy thing on the internet is true. Same people that believe that Nigerian lottery email they receive daily.

Are you talking about the one that starts with "Hello Pal,"?

I don't play the lottery, FYI.

 

[MotF Bane]

Anarchist, still waiting for your proof of Eisenhower ordering rape.

 

[Genx87]

For all practical purposes, the Axis Powers did win WW2.

Wall Street and the English Bankers supported Hitler financially because they wanted to pursue the Israel project, which Hitler also supported. He frequently used the term, "Send the Jews to the Desert".

WW2 Germany also negotiated with Israel supporters to send the Jewish people to Israel. This is documented in the book, The Transfer Agreement, by Jewish Historian Edwin Black.
http://www.transferagreement.com/
http://www.amazon.com/Transfer-Agree.../dp/0786708417
"The Transfer Agreement: The Dramatic Story of the Pact Between the Third Reich and Jewish Palestine (Paperback)"

As Theodore Herzl, Organizer of the First Zionist Congress in 1897, said, "The Anti-Semites will be Our Best Friend". He was referring to using the alleged suffering of the Jewish people as a justification for the creation of Israel.

Obviously, investing money in WW2 Germany was a terrible investment, in conventional terms. But that is what Jewish financiers in England and America did, right up until October 1942.

As for the Fascists in Italy, Mussolini famously commented that Fascism is the combination of Corporatism and the State - it's when elected representatives are beholden to special interests, such as American corporations. Which is exactly what we have in the United States.

The people who created & supported World War 2 Germany stayed in power - that's a conspiracy fact. The United States is as effective an example of the fusion of Corporate Interests with the State, as was WW2 Italy - another conspiracy fact.

Mussolini would be very impressed - conspiracy theory ... he's not available for an interview.


As for Hiroshima & Nagasaki, Japan was thoroughly defeated before August 6, 1945. But the United States wanted to try out their new war-toy, and it would have been embarassing to drop such a bomb after Japan surrendered.

Although Hitler is portrayed as the Ultimate Monster, both Axis and Allied powers committed atrocities that would be un-thinkable outside of war-time.

The victors of WW2 continued to commit such atrocities, as when the US killed 4.5 million civilians in Southeast Asia during World War 2. The directors of the Soviet Union committed similar atrocities, after World War 2, for example under Stalin.

Obviously, such occurrences are not mentioned in polite conversation. But it's hard to discuss the details of history within a polite conversation.

You realize Hitler and the Nazi's intentions on sending them to British palastine was so when they got done conquering the caucus region from the Soviets the jews would be in a nice easily identifiable area to carry out the final solution? The problem the Germans ran into was their support of arab nationalists who were fighting against the British in the 30's. Many of those Arabs formed the Baath party modeled after the National Socialist party. Yes the same baath party that was ousted in Iraq and still runs Syria. In the end the Nazi's decided to kill them where they were found instead of sending them to present day Israel and killing them in a single strike.

 

[airdata]

The winners write history. There's never full disclosure.

Conspiracy Fact.

For all the bat s*** crazy stuff Alex Jones talks about, he has some solid talking points. Including "Operation Northwoods" which was a plan in which we would attack and kill our own people and troops and then blame cuba so that we'd have support to goto war with them.

I believe JFK refused to green light operation northwoods.


When you see things like this happening 30-40 years ago, it's hard to not question other major world events like 9-11.

 

[wwswimming]

lol. I heard a term recently that applies to folks like you - Hatriots.

Fits perfectly.

you're taking a page right out of Hermann Goering's playbook -

"Göring spoke about war and extreme nationalism to Captain Gilbert, as recorded in Gilbert's Nuremberg Diary:

Naturally, the common people don't want war; neither in Russia nor in England nor in America, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship or a Parliament or a Communist dictatorship. ...voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country.[45]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermann_Göring


Israel wants Americans to be afraid of Scary Muslims. Now they want Americans to be afraid of riding on trains, because of Scary Muslims.

and anybody who tells the truth about history, runs the risk of being denounced as a "traitor" or a "hatriot".

which, in the grand scheme of things, is not a terrible penalty.

 

[Anarchist420]

you're taking a page right out of Hermann Goering's playbook -

"Göring spoke about war and extreme nationalism to Captain Gilbert, as recorded in Gilbert's Nuremberg Diary:

Naturally, the common people don't want war; neither in Russia nor in England nor in America, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship or a Parliament or a Communist dictatorship. ...voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country.[45]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermann_Göring


Israel wants Americans to be afraid of Scary Muslims. Now they want Americans to be afraid of riding on trains, because of Scary Muslims.

and anybody who tells the truth about history, runs the risk of being denounced as a "traitor" or a "hatriot".

which, in the grand scheme of things, is not a terrible penalty.

I agree with most of what you say, but it's far from only being Israel's doing; people don't have to be so stupid or at least shouldn't be so stupid.

If anyone is a traitor or a fascist it's the hawks and other people who support alliances. They're the ones who are traitors and fascists, not me.

 

[Number1]

You operate at the same level as Kylbisme.

 

[LegendKiller]

I agree with most of what you say, but it's far from only being Israel's doing; people don't have to be so stupid or at least shouldn't be so stupid.

If anyone is a traitor or a fascist it's the hawks and other people who support alliances. They're the ones who are traitors and fascists, not me.

Yeah, alliances are so horrible. Let me guess, you have no friends and even your parents hate your smart ass comments.

You STILL have not provided any backups of orders to rape. Next step for me is to report you to the mods. Either post something or retract it.

 

[LegendKiller]

you're taking a page right out of Hermann Goering's playbook -

"Göring spoke about war and extreme nationalism to Captain Gilbert, as recorded in Gilbert's Nuremberg Diary:

Naturally, the common people don't want war; neither in Russia nor in England nor in America, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship or a Parliament or a Communist dictatorship. ...voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country.[45]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermann_Göring


Israel wants Americans to be afraid of Scary Muslims. Now they want Americans to be afraid of riding on trains, because of Scary Muslims.

and anybody who tells the truth about history, runs the risk of being denounced as a "traitor" or a "hatriot".

which, in the grand scheme of things, is not a terrible penalty.

Yeah, because certain sects of Islam didn't attack us...

As I said above, post your backup to the statement that Eisenhower ordered rapes or that anybody in US command ordered them or I will report you to the mods and press for punishment.

 

[MayorOfAmerica]

<snip garbage>

If we had a poll, was Pearl Harbor Conspiracy Theory or Conspiracy Fact ? - most of us would say, it was Conspiracy fact.

<snip garbage>

I couldn't get through the whole thread, my brain started leaking out my ear, so appologies if this has already been said:

In regards to the bolded item in the quote, setup a poll and lets find out.

 

[Anarchist420]

Yeah, alliances are so horrible. Let me guess, you have no friends and even your parents hate your smart ass comments.

You STILL have not provided any backups of orders to rape. Next step for me is to report you to the mods. Either post something or retract it.

I have plenty of friends. If you were paying attention, you would've realized that I retracted it much earlier in the thread, because the source was not credible.

 

[infoiltrator]

There is no reason to assume conspiracy when things can be explained by foolishness and arrogance.
Technology was in escalation, not readily understood by senior officers on both sides (all sides?).
It had been demonstrated by the US Navy that a surprise attack was possible.
The British had demonstrated successful shallow water torpedo attacks against Italian battleships.
The Army and the Navy were on peace time/training orders.
Funds and supplies (especially after several false alarms) were awaiting the new fiscal year.
Strange as that may seem, soldiers always face these realities.
There is also preparing for the last war mentality.
News Flash neither Wahington nor Pearle Harbor were working weekends, !?

 

[LegendKiller]

I have plenty of friends. If you were paying attention, you would've realized that I retracted it much earlier in the thread, because the source was not credible.

You didn't retract it completely, you turned around and said that orders will still given, just not by Eisenhower.

Retract it completely or we'll see how many "friends" you have.

 

[darkewaffle]

Every now and then I peek into Pizza and Nachos and then I'm quickly reminded not to.

 

[werepossum]

Link to an order to rape women? Eisenhower was an American of German descent, not sure why he would do such.


He imposed economic sanctions on the Japanese for their blatant aggression in Asia. There was also The Flying Tigers, a volunteer air support effort, but they did not begin combat operations till after the attack on Pearl Harbor. This would be like North Korea attacking us because of economic sanctions, which in the minds of the foolish, help bring about change without violence.


The intended targets of the atomic bombings was the military-industrial complex of Japan. If we wanted to maximize civilian casualties with the a-bombs, there were much "better" locations to drop them.


Germany bombed civilians in Britain as well, both by plane and by rocket, albeit a navigational error started that mess.


It was much worse than that...


Germany declared war on America after their "allies" attacked us. Japan was kind enough to return the favor by not declaring war on the Soviet Union when Germany needed them the most. We should have ignored Europe and subdued the Japanese, as they were our true enemies.


Sig material

A Japanese victory in Asia would have been a humanitarian nightmare. The Japanese had a bad tendency to use chemical and biological weapons against unarmed civilians that were causing trouble. The situation in Nanking got so bad that the Nazis began to help setup a "refuge" for the Chinese to help save some from the cruel Japanese Imperial Army (see John Rabe).
Just a small taste of what the Japanese Imperial Army was capable of:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanking_Massacre

Very well said. We actually killed more Japanese in the fire bombings; those clustered wooden buildings burn like, well, wood. As for provoking a war with Japan, it was common knowledge that Japan and the US were on a collision course due to Japan's expansionist policy and America's embargoes. Most people have no problem understanding when a nation that is brutally killing hundreds of thousands of civilians - in affect, supporting its drive to subjugate its neighbors into virtual slavery - then trading with and supplying that nation is not a particularly moral thing to do. That's like blaming a cop for being shot because he was not helping someone rob a bank.

Had we agreed to a cessation of hostilities leaving Japan's ruling structure in place, chances are excellent that just as with Germany before them, we'd fight them again next generation. Remember, parts of the Japanese military were attempting to stop the emperor from conceding defeat even after two atomic bombs had been dropped on them. As with 9/11, we missed several things that, in hindsight, should have tipped us off to the actual attack, especially since Japan had a history of attacking and THEN declaring war. But the attempts to turn this into yet another America-bashing conspiracy theory serves no one.

 

[werepossum]

In 1941 battleships were the most important ships in the Navy, if the US knew about it they would have moved the battleships and not the aircraft carriers. At that point in time carriers werent the big offensive weapon they are today.

And the Japanese had been told many many times we would accept nothing less that UNCONDITIONAL SURRENDER

This is an important point as well. The USN had not totally bought into naval air power, and carriers were not considered THE major naval weapon. We had far more battleships than carriers, and our naval strategy for carriers was mostly theoretical and definitely secondary to the battleships. One or two of the carriers were actually out being used to shuttle land-based planes, for Christ's sake, and the third was on its shake-down cruise if memory serves. Japan's very successful strike on our battleships led to our adopting a carrier-based naval strategy because they made its effectiveness so apparent AND because that's what we had left.

 

[Genx87]

If FDR wanted a dramatic effect to sway the US populace. He could had dont it without sinking so much of the pacific fleet. Meaning he could had sent much more of our assets, especially the battleships out to sea as well. So much of our fleet being damaged in Pearl Harbor hurt our ability to wage war.

 

[BeauJangles]

You're full of crap. The Japanese would've had no reason to attack the U.S. if we hadn't done something to them first. Not only did FDR do all 8 things recommended on the McCollum Memo, he went beyond those 8 things.

Japan was trying to build an empire across the entire Pacific. They knew that the United States would see this as a threat to the country and Japanese racism towards America and Americans meant that they were bullish on a confrontation with America. Many Japanese were also smart enough to recognize that striking America sooner, rather than later, was in their advantage.

Stinnet's book is also not the only book that proves that FDR manuevered the Japanese into firing the first shot. Another book, released last year (IIRC), quotes FDR's wife as saying he was relieved when he found out that Japan had finally attacked Pearl Harbor.

"Argues" and "proves" are two words you seem to confuse more often than anything else. The United States attempted to put increasing pressure on Japan in order to contain its expansion and, more importantly, its worldly ambitions. There is, however, a difference between pursuing non-violent measures to check aggression and "maneuvering" another country into doing something.

Your argument truly falls apart when you consider what Japan actually did. In one fell swoop, they eliminated almost the entire Pacific Fleet. Had they had the foresight, a land invasion of Hawaii would have not only threatened American cities on the West Coast with seaborne attacks, but would have provided a foothold for a theoretical invasion.

Your use of the word maneuvering completely ignores the fact that the United States was exposed to serious risk through this "maneuver" and it wasn't as simple as getting Japan to declare war on the United States.

He didn't even care about saving the Jews from Hitler

No one really cared about saving the Jews from Hitler, not until the full extent of the Final Solution was discovered.

all he wanted to do was stop Hitler from conquering Britain which had severely aggressed against the Germans.

What, in your mind, are the serious "aggressions" that Britain committed against Germany? I believe that you lack a serious understanding of the issues involved.

FDR was a fascist, plain and simple and one of the worst people to ever live.

Don't throw around words just because they sound nice. FDR wasn't a fascist, no matter how much you wish him to be so.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

you're taking a page right out of Hermann Goering's playbook -

That's a rather ironic statement considering that Anarchist420 would prefer that Goering and his ilk be ruling over us now. Is that what you prefer as well?

 

[Anarchist420]

That's a rather ironic statement considering that Anarchist420 would prefer that Goering and his ilk be ruling over us now. Is that what you prefer as well?

Y'know, I said I almost wished that the Axis Powers (Japan, Germany, Italy) had won. After all, it wouldn't really matter who the fuck won, the people would still be conquered--which is why I said almost, because it doesn't make a whole hell of a lot of difference.

 

[CallMeJoe]

I have plenty of friends. If you were paying attention, you would've realized that I retracted it much earlier in the thread, because the source was not credible.

Some retraction:

I just found out the guy who wrote that was a white supremacist, so maybe it's not true, but after googling, the allied forces clearly did order Africans to rape German women. Still, that's what happens in war, so I don't see why anyone would be surprised about that.

Where is your evidence of this order?

edit: Are these friends of yours as nebulous as the rape order?

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Y'know, I said I almost wished that the Axis Powers (Japan, Germany, Italy) had won. After all, it wouldn't really matter who the fuck won, the people would still be conquered--which is why I said almost, because it doesn't make a whole hell of a lot of difference.

Let me clue you in on a little something. Right now you're just a hater of the State and you can post your opinion on the subject nilly-willy. Had the Axis powers won you'd be deemed an enemy of the State and tossed in a dank jail the first time you tried to blurt out any public opinion (or private, if the wrong person overheard) that went against the government.

So go on and try to justify that there's not a whole lot of difference between us and them. That opinion is about as reliable as your knowledge of history.

 

[werepossum]

Some retraction:

Where is your evidence of this order?

edit: Are these friends of yours as nebulous as the rape order?

Cold. But funny.