Japan's Attack on Pearl Harbor - Conspiracy Theory or Conspiracy Fact ?

[LegendKiller]

I think the Pearl Harbor conspiracy theory is one of the more nefarious ones. There has never been a shred of proof of any knowledge of the actual attack, remember, we didn't have too much of a war stance at that time. We had no knowledge of the fleet, its sailing, or the impending attack. It's not like we had naval tracking satellites.

As far as FDR forcing the Japanese's hand, sure, he did push them. That's the nature of international diplomacy and economic relations. Only a libertopian would believe that we are an island and can act like one.

 

[davmat787]

Those who think I'm crazy should also read this:

We don't need to read another website, your posts here are sufficient.

 

[Lemon law]

Those who think I'm crazy should also read this:
http://mises.org/daily/4388

I don't see why the Japanese would attack us for no reason.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Perhaps Anarchist 420, your failure to understand why the Japanese attacked the USA is your all to usual failing, in being unable to understand other who have differing viewpoints.

But from the Japanese viewpoint, they had a chance that only comes once in thousands of years, to control and dominate all of their part of the world. As Japan watched and waited,
a European WW2 had either removed or greatly weakened the normal European checks to Japanese power. And at the same and from a greater distance, the USA was the only remaining check to Japanese power. As the USA was a threat to Japan, because the was trying to maintain an economic embargo that greatly reduced Japan's access to raw materials. So when Japanese diplomatic trade talks with the USA failed to weaken the US
economic embargo, the Japs saw their chance and took it. Because if Japan could knock out the entire US Navy at Pear Harbor, it would remove the entire US threat, as the entire Pacific Ocean would become a Japanese controlled lake for perhaps a full five years or maybe even a decade. And at the time Hitler looked unstoppable in Europe, so Japan had an excellent chance of getting the USA to sue for peace. And on the getting the USA to sue for peace gamble, did Yamoto, who planned it put it starkly as a Japanese gamble. As Yamoto warned the Japanese downside, was once the US economic engine cranked up, it would become an enormous boiler that could develop unlimited power. So Japan had only a limited amount of time to force the US to sue for peace.

And as History shows, the Japanese decimated the rather antiquated US battleship fleet, but the three remaining carriers had left Pearl Harbor some days before. And for many years, the US just had those three carriers and little more. But those three US carriers at the battle of midway, were able to decimate more Japanese carriers and suddenly that Japanese naval hegemony was no longer as dominant. Had the Japs found the US carriers still at Pearl Harbor, history might have been different.

And as they say, that is when the Japs lost their gamble when they failed to sink those US carriers in the first year. And by the end of 1943 US carriers bound for the South Pacific were being launched in large numbers. And at the same time the Japanese ability to import raw materials was largely ending as newly rebuilt US Navy were forcing the Japs out of newly conquered territory.

 

[Anarchist420]

The thing I have to ask is:
If James K Polk had the Mexicans fire the first shot (on their own soil, too) then why wouldn't FDR have done the same?

If Lincoln had the Confederates fire the first shot, then why wouldn't FDR have done the same?

If McKinley/TJR was imperialistic, then why would FDR have been any better?

If Wilson kept antagonizing Germans so they'd blow up American ships and American people, then why wouldn't his disciple have done the same with the Japanese?

If LBJ could create a gulf of Tonkin incident, then why couldn't FDR be evil enough to lie to the people?

Finally, what right did the U.S. Govt have to Pearl Harbor, pretending that FDR didn't have them fire the first shot?

The only major war since the beginning of the Republic that the U.S. didn't trick the public into supporting was the War of 1812 and maybe a few other more minor wars.

 

[ConstipatedVigilante]

In addition to that, Truman dropped the bomb on the Japanese even though they offered to surrender under the condition they could keep their emperor. Harry Truman was the greatest war criminal of the 20th Century, much more of a war criminal than Emperor Hirohito was.

Even though I'm an American, I kind of wish the Axis powers had won WWII. considering all of the atrocities the allied powers committed (Eisenhower's order for French Africans to rape german women, FDR manuevering the Japanese into firing the first shot, the Atom bomb on innocent Japanese civilians, Britain firebombing German civilians, the Soviets raping german women, etc., etc.) Although the best thing that could've happened was for America to not get involved, as it was a totally preventable war for Americans just like all the others except for the Revolutionary War.

WTF? When did Eisenhower order Africans to rape germans? And the Japanese did not agree to surrender until after the bomb was dropped (at least, not in a unified manner. The military would have kept fighting even if the government had surrendered).

 

[wwswimming]

Even though I'm an American, I kind of wish the Axis powers had won WWII. considering all of the atrocities the allied powers committed (Eisenhower's order for French Africans to rape german women, FDR manuevering the Japanese into firing the first shot, the Atom bomb on innocent Japanese civilians, Britain firebombing German civilians, the Soviets raping german women, etc., etc.) Although the best thing that could've happened was for America to not get involved, as it was a totally preventable war for Americans just like all the others except for the Revolutionary War.

For all practical purposes, the Axis Powers did win WW2.

Wall Street and the English Bankers supported Hitler financially because they wanted to pursue the Israel project, which Hitler also supported. He frequently used the term, "Send the Jews to the Desert".

WW2 Germany also negotiated with Israel supporters to send the Jewish people to Israel. This is documented in the book, The Transfer Agreement, by Jewish Historian Edwin Black.
http://www.transferagreement.com/
http://www.amazon.com/Transfer-Agree.../dp/0786708417
"The Transfer Agreement: The Dramatic Story of the Pact Between the Third Reich and Jewish Palestine (Paperback)"

As Theodore Herzl, Organizer of the First Zionist Congress in 1897, said, "The Anti-Semites will be Our Best Friend". He was referring to using the alleged suffering of the Jewish people as a justification for the creation of Israel.

Obviously, investing money in WW2 Germany was a terrible investment, in conventional terms. But that is what Jewish financiers in England and America did, right up until October 1942.

As for the Fascists in Italy, Mussolini famously commented that Fascism is the combination of Corporatism and the State - it's when elected representatives are beholden to special interests, such as American corporations. Which is exactly what we have in the United States.

The people who created & supported World War 2 Germany stayed in power - that's a conspiracy fact. The United States is as effective an example of the fusion of Corporate Interests with the State, as was WW2 Italy - another conspiracy fact.

Mussolini would be very impressed - conspiracy theory ... he's not available for an interview.


As for Hiroshima & Nagasaki, Japan was thoroughly defeated before August 6, 1945. But the United States wanted to try out their new war-toy, and it would have been embarassing to drop such a bomb after Japan surrendered.

Although Hitler is portrayed as the Ultimate Monster, both Axis and Allied powers committed atrocities that would be un-thinkable outside of war-time.

The victors of WW2 continued to commit such atrocities, as when the US killed 4.5 million civilians in Southeast Asia during World War 2. The directors of the Soviet Union committed similar atrocities, after World War 2, for example under Stalin.

Obviously, such occurrences are not mentioned in polite conversation. But it's hard to discuss the details of history within a polite conversation.

 

[Schadenfroh]

Eisenhower's order for French Africans to rape german women

Link to an order to rape women? Eisenhower was an American of German descent, not sure why he would do such.

FDR manuevering the Japanese into firing the first shot

He imposed economic sanctions on the Japanese for their blatant aggression in Asia. There was also The Flying Tigers, a volunteer air support effort, but they did not begin combat operations till after the attack on Pearl Harbor. This would be like North Korea attacking us because of economic sanctions, which in the minds of the foolish, help bring about change without violence.

Atom bomb on innocent Japanese civilians

The intended targets of the atomic bombings was the military-industrial complex of Japan. If we wanted to maximize civilian casualties with the a-bombs, there were much "better" locations to drop them.

Britain firebombing German civilians

Germany bombed civilians in Britain as well, both by plane and by rocket, albeit a navigational error started that mess.

Soviets raping german women

It was much worse than that...

Although the best thing that could've happened was for America to not get involved

Germany declared war on America after their "allies" attacked us. Japan was kind enough to return the favor by not declaring war on the Soviet Union when Germany needed them the most. We should have ignored Europe and subdued the Japanese, as they were our true enemies.

Even though I'm an American, I kind of wish the Axis powers had won WWII

Sig material

A Japanese victory in Asia would have been a humanitarian nightmare. The Japanese had a bad tendency to use chemical and biological weapons against unarmed civilians that were causing trouble. The situation in Nanking got so bad that the Nazis began to help setup a "refuge" for the Chinese to help save some from the cruel Japanese Imperial Army (see John Rabe).
Just a small taste of what the Japanese Imperial Army was capable of:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanking_Massacre

During this period, up to hundreds of thousands of Chinese civilians and disarmed soldiers were murdered and 20,000–80,000 women were raped[1] by soldiers of the Imperial Japanese Army.

 

[wwswimming]

Even though I'm an American, I kind of wish the Axis powers had won WWII. considering all of the atrocities the allied powers committed (Eisenhower's order for French Africans to rape german women, FDR manuevering the Japanese into firing the first shot, the Atom bomb on innocent Japanese civilians, Britain firebombing German civilians, the Soviets raping german women, etc., etc.) Although the best thing that could've happened was for America to not get involved, as it was a totally preventable war for Americans just like all the others except for the Revolutionary War.

For all practical purposes, the Axis Powers did win WW2.

Wall Street and the English Bankers supported Hitler financially because they wanted to pursue the Israel project, which Hitler also supported. He frequently used the term, "Send the Jews to the Desert".

WW2 Germany also negotiated with Israel supporters to send the Jewish people to Israel. This is documented in the book, The Transfer Agreement, by Jewish Historian Edwin Black.
http://www.transferagreement.com/
http://www.amazon.com/Transfer-Agree.../dp/0786708417
"The Transfer Agreement: The Dramatic Story of the Pact Between the Third Reich and Jewish Palestine (Paperback)"

As Theodore Herzl, Organizer of the First Zionist Congress in 1897, said, "The Anti-Semites will be Our Best Friend". He was referring to using the alleged suffering of the Jewish people as a justification for the creation of Israel.

Obviously, investing money in WW2 Germany was a terrible investment, in conventional terms. But that is what Jewish financiers in England and America did, right up until October 1942.

As for the Fascists in Italy, Mussolini famously commented that Fascism is the combination of Corporatism and the State - it's when elected representatives are beholden to special interests, such as American corporations. Which is exactly what we have in the United States.

The people who created & supported World War 2 Germany stayed in power - that's a conspiracy fact. The United States is as effective an example of the fusion of Corporate Interests with the State, as was WW2 Italy - another conspiracy fact.

Mussolini would be very impressed - conspiracy theory ... he's not available for an interview.


As for Hiroshima & Nagasaki, Japan was thoroughly defeated before August 6, 1945. But the United States wanted to try out their new war-toy, and it would have been embarassing to drop such a bomb after Japan surrendered.

Although Hitler is portrayed as the Ultimate Monster, both Axis and Allied powers committed atrocities that would be un-thinkable outside of war-time.

The victors of WW2 continued to commit such atrocities, as when the US killed 4.5 million civilians in Southeast Asia during the Vietnam War. The directors of the Soviet Union committed similar atrocities, after World War 2, for example under Stalin.

Obviously, such occurrences are not mentioned in polite conversation. But it's hard to discuss the details of history within a polite conversation.

 

[Anarchist420]

Link to an order to rape women? Eisenhower was an American of German descent, not sure why he would do such.


He imposed economic sanctions on the Japanese for their blatant aggression in Asia. There was also The Flying Tigers, a volunteer air support effort, but they did not begin combat operations till after the attack on Pearl Harbor. This would be like North Korea attacking us because of economic sanctions, which in the minds of the foolish, help bring about change without violence.


The intended targets of the atomic bombings was the military-industrial complex of Japan. If we wanted to maximize civilian casualties with the a-bombs, there were much "better" locations to drop them.


Germany bombed civilians in Britain as well, both by plane and by rocket, albeit a navigational error started that mess.


It was much worse than that...


Germany declared war on America after their "allies" attacked us. Japan was kind enough to return the favor by not declaring war on the Soviet Union when Germany needed them the most. We should have ignored Europe and subdued the Japanese, as they were our true enemies.


Sig material

A Japanese victory in Asia would have been a humanitarian nightmare. The Japanese had a bad tendency to use chemical and biological weapons against unarmed civilians that were causing trouble. The situation in Nanking got so bad that the Nazis began to help setup a "refuge" for the Chinese to help save some from the cruel Japanese Imperial Army (see John Rabe).
Just a small taste of what the Japanese Imperial Army was capable of:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanking_Massacre

FDR did a lot more than impose economic sanctions on the Japanese. And sanctions aren't non-violent; they're aggressive. Suppose I was a computer chip exporter and I sold to NK, and Obama/the U.N. placed sanctions on NK by ordering Americans not to export anything more to NK. If I continued to do the business I wanted to do, I'd be arrested, if I got caught. If I was defending my natural rights to sell to NK, by resisting arrest, and some Federal agents shot me, then how would those sanctions bring change without violence? I know a lot of people think sanctions bring change without violence, but that's a dangerous fallacy.

 

[Double Trouble]

Wow..... some severe idiocy presented in this thread. You know who you are......

 

[LegendKiller]

FDR did a lot more than impose economic sanctions on the Japanese. And sanctions aren't non-violent; they're aggressive. Suppose I was a computer chip exporter and I sold to NK, and Obama/the U.N. placed sanctions on NK by ordering Americans not to export anything more to NK. If I continued to do the business I wanted to do, I'd be arrested, if I got caught. If I was defending my natural rights to sell to NK, by resisting arrest, and some Federal agents shot me, then how would those sanctions bring change without violence? I know a lot of people think sanctions bring change without violence, but that's a dangerous fallacy.

You didn't address a single point he had. Link to the Eisenhower claim?

 

[Anarchist420]

I just found out the guy who wrote that was a white supremacist, so maybe it's not true, but after googling, the allied forces clearly did order Africans to rape German women. Still, that's what happens in war, so I don't see why anyone would be surprised about that.

 

[CanOWorms]

In addition to that, Truman dropped the bomb on the Japanese even though they offered to surrender under the condition they could keep their emperor. Harry Truman was the greatest war criminal of the 20th Century, much more of a war criminal than Emperor Hirohito was.

The Americans didn't go far enough in terms of the emperor. The institution should have been completely eliminated.

Even though I'm an American, I kind of wish the Axis powers had won WWII. considering all of the atrocities the allied powers committed (Eisenhower's order for French Africans to rape german women, FDR manuevering the Japanese into firing the first shot, the Atom bomb on innocent Japanese civilians, Britain firebombing German civilians, the Soviets raping german women, etc., etc.) Although the best thing that could've happened was for America to not get involved, as it was a totally preventable war for Americans just like all the others except for the Revolutionary War.

The Americans should have entered as a third party to the conflict, against both the Allies and the Axis. The failure of America to do that led to an extension of colonialism for a few more decades.

Also, Churchill ordered the genocide of millions in India during WW2, among other atrocities. We supported one of the worst monsters the world had ever seen: a British Empire controlled by Winston Churchill.

 

[CanOWorms]

Sig material

A Japanese victory in Asia would have been a humanitarian nightmare. The Japanese had a bad tendency to use chemical and biological weapons against unarmed civilians that were causing trouble. The situation in Nanking got so bad that the Nazis began to help setup a "refuge" for the Chinese to help save some from the cruel Japanese Imperial Army (see John Rabe).
Just a small taste of what the Japanese Imperial Army was capable of:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanking_Massacre

This is sig material, too. A victory for either the Allies resulted in a humanitarian nightmare. The victory for the Allies led to continued colonialism in which millions were slaughtered.

Just a small taste of what the British Empire was capable of: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bengal_famine_of_1943

 

[LegendKiller]

I just found out the guy who wrote that was a white supremacist, so maybe it's not true, but after googling, the allied forces clearly did order Africans to rape German women. Still, that's what happens in war, so I don't see why anyone would be surprised about that.

Again, what source was that? You've already proven that you like spreading FUD, back this one up.

 

[Anarchist420]

Again, what source was that? You've already proven that you like spreading FUD, back this one up.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_during_the_occupation_of_Germany#cite_note-Naimark106-32:
According to Norman Naimark French Moroccan troops matched the behavior of Soviet troops when it came to rape, in particular in the early occupation of Baden and Württemberg

 

[CallMeJoe]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_during_the_occupation_of_Germany#cite_note-Naimark106-32:
According to Norman Naimark French Moroccan troops matched the behavior of Soviet troops when it came to rape, in particular in the early occupation of Baden and Württemberg

You have yet to post any evidence that Allied command ordered rapes as you earlier contended.

 

[JEDIYoda]

I just found out the guy who wrote that was a white supremacist, so maybe it's not true, but after googling, the allied forces clearly did order Africans to rape German women. Still, that's what happens in war, so I don't see why anyone would be surprised about that.

You just found out??
You knew he was a white supremacist!!
You just found out is like saying you looked in the mirror and saw a zit on your nose....

You just found out!! hahaha thats total BS!!!

 

[StinkyPinky]

Yeah, they didn't plan it at all. Basically it went down like this...

Japanese Commander: "I slept well last night. I'm bored. Hey guys, let's bomb the United States. That shit would be wack yo"

Sub Commander: : Bonsai!

Commander: Bonsai!

 

[Anarchist420]

You just found out??
You knew he was a white supremist!!
You just found out isd like saying you looked in the mirror and say a zit on your nose....

You just found out!! hahaha thats total BS!!!

Well, my suspicions were that he was a white supremacist trying to cover up for the Holocaust or other Axis war crimes, but after I looked his name up, I found out that he was a neonazi, so that's why I didn't reference him.

 

[LegendKiller]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_during_the_occupation_of_Germany#cite_note-Naimark106-32:
According to Norman Naimark French Moroccan troops matched the behavior of Soviet troops when it came to rape, in particular in the early occupation of Baden and Württemberg

Still no evidence of orders to rape people. Please provide a source.

 

[MotF Bane]

Still no evidence of orders to rape people. Please provide a source.

I hope you aren't holding your breath for that one.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Wow..... some severe idiocy presented in this thread. You know who you are......

These threads rock. It's always entertaining to see the crazies try to defy logic and how any crazy thing on the internet is true. Same people that believe that Nigerian lottery email they receive daily.

 

[OutHouse]

For all practical purposes, the Axis Powers did win WW2.

Wall Street and the English Bankers supported Hitler financially because they wanted to pursue the Israel project, which Hitler also supported. He frequently used the term, "Send the Jews to the Desert".

WW2 Germany also negotiated with Israel supporters to send the Jewish people to Israel. This is documented in the book, The Transfer Agreement, by Jewish Historian Edwin Black.
http://www.transferagreement.com/
http://www.amazon.com/Transfer-Agree.../dp/0786708417
"The Transfer Agreement: The Dramatic Story of the Pact Between the Third Reich and Jewish Palestine (Paperback)"

As Theodore Herzl, Organizer of the First Zionist Congress in 1897, said, "The Anti-Semites will be Our Best Friend". He was referring to using the alleged suffering of the Jewish people as a justification for the creation of Israel.

Obviously, investing money in WW2 Germany was a terrible investment, in conventional terms. But that is what Jewish financiers in England and America did, right up until October 1942.

As for the Fascists in Italy, Mussolini famously commented that Fascism is the combination of Corporatism and the State - it's when elected representatives are beholden to special interests, such as American corporations. Which is exactly what we have in the United States.

The people who created & supported World War 2 Germany stayed in power - that's a conspiracy fact. The United States is as effective an example of the fusion of Corporate Interests with the State, as was WW2 Italy - another conspiracy fact.

Mussolini would be very impressed - conspiracy theory ... he's not available for an interview.


As for Hiroshima & Nagasaki, Japan was thoroughly defeated before August 6, 1945. But the United States wanted to try out their new war-toy, and it would have been embarassing to drop such a bomb after Japan surrendered.

Although Hitler is portrayed as the Ultimate Monster, both Axis and Allied powers committed atrocities that would be un-thinkable outside of war-time.

The victors of WW2 continued to commit such atrocities, as when the US killed 4.5 million civilians in Southeast Asia during World War 2. The directors of the Soviet Union committed similar atrocities, after World War 2, for example under Stalin.

Obviously, such occurrences are not mentioned in polite conversation. But it's hard to discuss the details of history within a polite conversation.

not only does your twisted view of history make me weep for the current education system but I actually want to throw up after reading it. seriously you can not be this stupid or are you brainwashed?

I can not believe you actually said that Gen Eisenhower orderd women to be raped. a man who served his county with distinction and honor. you sir are a parasite.

short history lesson for you. the war with Japan was not over by Aug 6th. yes Japan was defeated but there were military factions that were NOT going to surrender. there was even a unsuccessful coup to over throw the emperor AFTER the bombs were dropped. learn your history and stop posting stupid ass shit that just makes you look retarded.

 

[ProfJohn]

Let me sum up this thread