Japanese vs. Korean..........

[iamwiz82]

Originally posted by: DivideBYZero

Originally posted by: everydae
Well, first of all, if you think Korean tranny is good, think again. Most of Kia/Hyundai's cars in US use Aisin (= Toyota) tranny. In Korean market, they use their own tranny for their cars, and failure rate is nowhere closer to US cars. They barely lasts 7 years unless you gave a really serious and good care. (ie, only driving under 3000RPM, frequent mission oil change, etc) Korean calls it yoo-ri mission, by yoo-ri means glass. (Easy to be broken anytime)

Genesis' tranny is ZF, because they have no idea how to make RWD tranny with capable of 250+ HP.

Engine, on the other hand, is really getting better every year. It's still more to go, especially in the area of variable timing technology and durability. But at least it's not a light year difference from German/Japanese engine.

Small things you said, they are really the things Hyundai should work on, and they do. Suspension, break, and handling are nowhere near to those of Japan. (Again, Genesis uses German-tuned/made suspension. I believe it's Porsche)

Overall, they are getting closer to Japanese, but not on par at all. Engine is very very close, but considering other serious parts like tranny and suspension are still outsourced, I think they are still behind Japan, or even behind domestic. (At least Big 3 knows how to make their own tranny and last more than 7 years)

I'm not about to say Korean cars are the best ever, but I take issue with a couple of your 'reasons' why they are not up to par.

Plenty of companies use ZF transmissions. It's not unusual and it makes a LOT of sense for a company to buy in parts like this from specialist companies, especially if it is for a lower volume unit that has to handle higher power than 90% of the units you fit or make in house. Hell, my BMW has a Getrag transmission. I guess BMW suck because they can't make their own manual trans?

Outsourced suspension? You are aware that MANY parts of a car are produced by companies external to the brand name on the hood? The entire dash assembly will probably have been made by an outsourced company, the seats, the headlining, you name it. There is no reason for a car manufacturer to produce or become an expert in EVERY field of production and materials to produce a car. I know of NO volume manufacturer that produces every component under their own roof for one single model. Proton cars have Lotus tuned suspension. That can't possibly make it any worse, it can only be better than an in house solution, otherwise they wouldn't bother (yes I'm aware that it is also a marketing exercise and the relationship with Lotus/proton).

Not only are the parts outsourced, but their components are outsourced by that company. Tier 4 manufacturers (Part is made by company A, then given to company B to add something, then C, then D) are not unheard of.

I'm not talking about little piddly things either. I'm referencing things like the fuel system or brakes.

 

[Funyuns101]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
There is no way in hell I'd ever buy a Kia...there's no way in hell I'd ever buy a Dodge either though.

I'm keeping my paid for 2003 Nissan Maxima with 69k miles on it for at least 3 more years until my wife's Lexus is paid off. At the rate I'm going I might have 90k miles on the Maxima by then.

I just passed 89,500 miles on my 1997 Infiniti I30 (read fancy Maxima) which has had its fair share of annoying issues with many sensors failing. Don't get me wrong, the VQ30 is great, but gas mileage is starting to hurt nowadays.
One has to consider the cheaper, fuel efficient cars up & coming Hyundai's (offers similar packages and standard options but has worse re-sell value) who are trying to bring up their reputation along with the traditional Corolla/Civic counterparts.

Too bad the Genesis is way out of my price range:
autoblog pre-production review

 

[Chunkee]

This is all true. I worked for Denso and learned they make a great deal of items that go into cars, dashboards, sparks, ceramics, alternators, starters, for chrysler, lexus, honda, acura, etc. All cars are like this...hodge podge. It is amazing the logistics of it all. and yet... QC is crazy... Is it so hard to produce a vehicle, that is stylish, safe, economical and reasonably priced with good price points on feature additions?

 

[DivideBYZero]

Originally posted by: everydae

Originally posted by: DivideBYZero

Originally posted by: everydae
Well, first of all, if you think Korean tranny is good, think again. Most of Kia/Hyundai's cars in US use Aisin (= Toyota) tranny. In Korean market, they use their own tranny for their cars, and failure rate is nowhere closer to US cars. They barely lasts 7 years unless you gave a really serious and good care. (ie, only driving under 3000RPM, frequent mission oil change, etc) Korean calls it yoo-ri mission, by yoo-ri means glass. (Easy to be broken anytime)

Genesis' tranny is ZF, because they have no idea how to make RWD tranny with capable of 250+ HP.

Engine, on the other hand, is really getting better every year. It's still more to go, especially in the area of variable timing technology and durability. But at least it's not a light year difference from German/Japanese engine.

Small things you said, they are really the things Hyundai should work on, and they do. Suspension, break, and handling are nowhere near to those of Japan. (Again, Genesis uses German-tuned/made suspension. I believe it's Porsche)

Overall, they are getting closer to Japanese, but not on par at all. Engine is very very close, but considering other serious parts like tranny and suspension are still outsourced, I think they are still behind Japan, or even behind domestic. (At least Big 3 knows how to make their own tranny and last more than 7 years)

I'm not about to say Korean cars are the best ever, but I take issue with a couple of your 'reasons' why they are not up to par.

Plenty of companies use ZF transmissions. It's not unusual and it makes a LOT of sense for a company to buy in parts like this from specialist companies, especially if it is for a lower volume unit that has to handle higher power than 90% of the units you fit or make in house. Hell, my BMW has a Getrag transmission. I guess BMW suck because they can't make their own manual trans?

Outsourced suspension? You are aware that MANY parts of a car are produced by companies external to the brand name on the hood? The entire dash assembly will probably have been made by an outsourced company, the seats, the headlining, you name it. There is no reason for a car manufacturer to produce or become an expert in EVERY field of production and materials to produce a car. I know of NO volume manufacturer that produces every component under their own roof for one single model. Proton cars have Lotus tuned suspension. That can't possibly make it any worse, it can only be better than an in house solution, otherwise they wouldn't bother (yes I'm aware that it is also a marketing exercise and the relationship with Lotus/proton).

The thing is Lotus/BMW are not day-to-day/economy car manufacturer. I agree that it's pretty reasonable not to produce in-house for such manufacturer since it's hard to break-even considering the number of cars they sell.

Hyundai, on the other hand, is day-to-day car manufacturer. Big names in this segment (ie. Honda, Toyota, Nissan, Ford, GM, Chrysler) pretty much produced their own transmission for a while. If they outsource, it's mostly because of the cost. At least it's not because of durability or reliability like Hyundai.

I bet same goes to the other parts as well. There's a huge difference between "Can't make" and "Don't make."

BMW sold 1,500,678 cars worldwide last year.
Hyundai sold 1,105,657 cars worldwide last year.

 

[alfa147x]

JAP ftw

 

[Thump553]

Originally posted by: lurk3r

Originally posted by: mshan
Can you comment on current Hyundai Santa Fe and Hyundai Sonata?

A guy here at work got a Santa Fe here with our corporate discount, since we installed the plant in the US. He absolutely adored the car for the first 6 months or so, until the throttle response became what can only be described as random and unpredictable. Several trips to the dealer resulted in no fix, the dealer telling him that random throttle performance is 'as expected'.

He finally gave up and traded the 9 month old POS in, took about a 6k loss on a car he paid $18k for and got a Mazda.

Expect all warranty claims to be weaseled out of.

Your state doesn't have a lemon law? Too bad, here the mfr. would have had to buy back that turkey.

Maybe your friend is a bit too whiny, as I've never had a problem resolving an auto problem at the corporate level with any manufacturer. Just be concise, logical and persistent.

 

[PandaBear]

Korean cars have made great improvement since a few years back, but I think they are still not yet at the tier 1 level as Toyota and Honda on most model (except Honda's and Acura's V6 auto tranny problem and Toyota's V6 transmission flare in Camry and ES350). I'd say Hyundai today is better than Mitsubishi and Suzuki, slightly worse than Nissan (not that great), near Ford and GM, better than Chrysler, but way behind Toyota and Honda.

Still way better than VW's POS transmission that doesn't last more than 60k miles.