Japan could have won WW2
- Thread starter PlatinumRice
- Start date
surfsatwerk
Lifer
- Mar 6, 2008
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GagHalfrunt
Lifer
- Apr 19, 2001
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Other than the US surrendering on day 1, completely correct. And that truly was their thinking, that we were weak and cowardly and if they kicked our ass once we'd cry and run away. So they planned a huge strike to wipe out the Pacific fleet and hoped for the best. But as Joseph Heller had not written Catch-22 yet they had not heard the term and couldn't learn from it. Such a massive sneak attack made it impossible to run even if we wanted to.
Neither Germany nor Japan could even begin to comprehend the industrial might of the USA once we got started. Even the USA couldn't fathom what the country could accomplish. We built so many things so quickly that we just buried them in steel. When Hitler heard how quickly we were turning out cargo ships in 1941 even before we officially entered the war he said that Germany had already lost. At the height of production we were producing Liberty ships at a rate of more than 1.5 per day. They made something like 2,800 of them in 5 years. That's unbelievable considering that they were making aircraft carriers and destroyers and subs and planes and tanks and bombs and bullets at the same time.
Linflas
Lifer
- Jan 30, 2001
- 15,395
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It was only a sneak attack because of a foul up that led to the declaration of war not being delivered 30 minutes before the attack began as it was supposed to have been. I doubt that would have made much difference in the US response in the end though as Yamamoto supposedly knew from his experiences living in the US.
GagHalfrunt
Lifer
- Apr 19, 2001
- 25,284
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It was planned as a sneak attack in all but name. Yamamoto thought it would be honorable to attack 30 minutes after declaration of war which is just a pathetic concept of honor as it would not allow the US ships time to even get under way. It's like tying somebody's arms behind his back and then warning him you were going to punch him. No matter how the timing of the ambassador's delivery of the declaration went down, Japan FULLY and INTENTIONALLY intended to hit a nearly defenseless target. The idea of a declaration of war before hand was just a silly attempt to save face.
Wow... Do people genuinely think "of" is the same as "have"?
The title has it right, all you had to do was copy, and you still got it wrong
It blows my mind how more and more people do this every day on the internet... And english isnt even my first language
On topic, I love how the OP is called "PlatinumRICE" and double posted about Japan in WW2
- Mar 20, 2000
- 102,396
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yeah, something happens at 11:00 am in hawaii and they don't find out about it on the east coast until 4:00 pm at the earliest!
T_Yamamoto
Lifer
- Jul 6, 2011
- 15,007
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Defenseless naval base lol.
The problem with thinking that Nipponese elites were foolhardy is that the alternative was to lose their grip anyway. Pretty much universal.
We already knew that considering you can't tell the difference between a general and an admiral.
GagHalfrunt
Lifer
- Apr 19, 2001
- 25,284
- 1,997
- 126
Yeah, a defenseless naval base. Ships on a peacetime footing, not underway, no gunners, no fighter cover. You think the timing was an accident and that Yamamoto intending to hit the base 30 minutes after the declaration of war rather than a couple of days later was just a random chance? Anyone with a brain cell knows that the defense of naval vessels comes from air cover and maneuverability and the Japanese intended to deny the ships the ability to use either. It was a sneak attack, period.
dud
Diamond Member
- Feb 18, 2001
- 7,635
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Are you Japanese, Asian or delusional?
The JIN plans were involved and too complex. the Japanese HQ seemed to (dimensionally) believe that the Americans would ultimately sue for peace. Unfortunately for the Japanese ... the war was "do or die" ... and they had no idea at the time of PH that their "plan" was doomed from the beginning.
The JHQ could have sunk all the American BBs at PH AND their carriers ... but I significant doubt that the USA would have caved.
US Intel knew about almost everything that the Japs were doing in the Pacific since their code had been broken. The Japs had no idea they were doomed.
This thread is full of fail ...
surfsatwerk
Lifer
- Mar 6, 2008
- 10,110
- 5
- 81
Wow... Do people genuinely think "of" is the same as "have"?
The title has it right, all you had to do was copy, and you still got it wrong
It blows my mind how more and more people do this every day on the internet... And english isnt even my first language
On topic, I love how the OP is called "PlatinumRICE" and double posted about Japan in WW2
I could of used "have", but I didn't
surfsatwerk
Lifer
- Mar 6, 2008
- 10,110
- 5
- 81
Gibsons
Lifer
- Aug 14, 2001
- 12,530
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- 91
The gap was indeed huge and only got larger as the war progressed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_production_during_World_War_II
SKORPI0
Lifer
- Jan 18, 2000
- 18,471
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Thank god you're not related or he would be rolling in his grave.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isoroku_Yamamoto
The Pacific Fleet was not moved to Hawaii in the interest of peace (nor was Hawaii occupied in the interest of peace). Nor was the continuing build up of other bases including Wake and extending all the way across the Pacific to the Philippines, in Nippon's backyard. The operation may be described as a surprise but conflict was decades in coming, war was expected and only a question of when (how soon).
Actually, it was not a given that naval superiority could be countered with air power. The British Admiralty were yet to learn that lesson.
Their other mistake was that the Japanese failed to destroy the dry dock facilities in Pearl, and failed to destroy the fuel tanks on Oahu. By doing so, they allowed the Navy to repair much of the damage to the fleet ships that weren't sunk, and return many of those ships to the fleet, much faster than they could have if they'd had to be towed to San Diego. Leaving the fuel tanks intact allowed the fleet to be able to sail immediately into battle, with full bunkers, and return to Hawaii to refuel (versus the west coast).
If the Japanese had appreciated either of these facts, and destroyed those targets, it would have made the Navy's entry into battle happen much later, and could have led to the invasion of the Hawaiian islands, without much that we would have been able to do about it.
If the Japanese had appreciated either of these facts, and destroyed those targets, it would have made the Navy's entry into battle happen much later, and could have led to the invasion of the Hawaiian islands, without much that we would have been able to do about it.
K1052
Elite Member
- Aug 21, 2003
- 52,093
- 45,077
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The strike on Pearl would have worked if not for two operational problems and one planing problem. It was still an impressive feat of military operation but futile from a strategic sense.
1) Carrier force not in port. Failure to neutralize the US's most valuable assets.
2) Nagumo canceling the third wave that would have targeted repair yards, drydocks, and oil storage tank farms.
3) Not considering the submarine base to be a primary target.
1) Carrier force not in port. Failure to neutralize the US's most valuable assets.
2) Nagumo canceling the third wave that would have targeted repair yards, drydocks, and oil storage tank farms.
3) Not considering the submarine base to be a primary target.
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