Ivy Bridge-E or what happens when there's no competitions

inf64

Diamond Member
Mar 11, 2011
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Equivalent Haswell chip should come 1 year after IB-E (whenever it comes). Intel is in business of earning money, they won't skip a cache cow such as IB-E and dump the RnD money they have invested in it.
 

SunRe

Member
Dec 16, 2012
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I don't know, it feels they are changing the market segmentation a bit. Or maybe this was what they were aiming from the beginning. The E series, dedicated to consumers, is more and more linked to the Xeon line, always a generation behind the "entry-level" desktop CPU's. But this way the E series resembles more a workstation CPU, or entry-level server CPU, dedicated to professionals, not gamers.

I am wondering, Haswell EP should have DDR4 support for example. Presumably, Haswell EP and E (xeon and consumer) will lunch in the same time, around the time the Haswell gets a dye shrink. Will the consumer version also get DDR4? Will also Broadwell get it?
 

inf64

Diamond Member
Mar 11, 2011
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It brings more cores I suppose. 8 or even maybe 10, versus 6 SB-E cores. Even with "only" 8 you are looking at 33% increase in core count and massive increase in cache size. I also expect IB-E on desktop to clock to comparable (stock) level as top SB-E we have today,so you lose nothing in ST (you gain most likely) and you get big perf. jump if you use MTed software a lot. The downside is that 8C/16 IB-E for enthusiast desktop will probably cost even more than SB-E does today.
Premium performance=premium money.
 

StrangerGuy

Diamond Member
May 9, 2004
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"what happens when there's no competitions"

Funny because Intel has been competing with itself for such a long time that even their dual core Celerons are overkill for most people for years. Why would PC sales be slumping otherwise? And lets not get started on ARM and $50 Android full tablets.
 
Mar 10, 2006
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"what happens when there's no competitions"

Funny because Intel has been competing with itself for such a long time that even their dual core Celerons are overkill for most people for years. Why would PC sales be slumping otherwise? And lets not get started on ARM and $50 Android full tablets.

I dare you to replace your PC with a $50 Cortex A8 based tablet. Enjoy your "good enough" ;)
 

AdamK47

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
15,649
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Aren't you all the same people who think LGA 2011 is pointless? ;)

I'm one of the minority around here that doesn't think it is pointless. Besides, I'm kinda attached to my Asrock Extreme11 X79 board and want to keep it going with IB-E.
 

StrangerGuy

Diamond Member
May 9, 2004
8,443
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I dare you to replace your PC with a $50 Cortex A8 based tablet. Enjoy your "good enough" ;)

I'm sure your beloved Intel is getting $0 from people that are still happily running 6+ year old PCs and doesn't use strawman arguments at the same time.
 

ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
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The subject is self-explanatory I guess. I wonder though if this delay tells anything about Haswell's performance.

Not to mention that this means that Haswell EP also gets pushed back, probably by another year or so.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/di...Core_i7_Extreme_Ivy_Bridge_E_Chip_Report.html

Uhm no. Your thread is an epic fail of misunderstanding.

If you were in the market for server CPUs, you would know better. LGA2011 desktop chips is nothing more than bastard offsprings from that.

Not to mention the more obvious with the economics involved. If Intel delays anything, they reduce their revenue and profit. People and companies dont buy the same twice. They need new to buy.

Intel aint selling electricity or water that people usually confuse in terms of economics.

Only AMD ever held technology back on purpose with x86. But that was only due to being capacity constrained and a minority supplier while being a product leader. Else it couldnt be done without a economic penalty to the company.
 
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Sheep221

Golden Member
Oct 28, 2012
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I'm sure your beloved Intel is getting $0 from people that are still happily running 6+ year old PCs and doesn't use strawman arguments at the same time.
Maybe the sales for desktop computers are in mild decline, but for sure more CPUs are sold, as more laptops are sold and more tablets and servers are sold. So honestly Intel makes much more money than it did 6 years ago. In fact, 6 years ago, there were tablets and phones using only propietary OS and were expensive. So I'm sure that much more stuff gets sold today.
 

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
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Uhm no. Your thread is an epic fail of misunderstanding.

If you were in the market for server CPUs, you would know better. LGA2011 desktop chips is nothing more than bastard offsprings from that.

Not to mention the more obvious with the economics involved. If Intel delays anything, they reduce their revenue and profit. People and companies dont buy the same twice. They need new to buy.

Intel aint selling electricity or water that people usually confuse in terms of economics.

Only AMD ever held technology back on purpose with x86. But that was only due to being capacity constrained and a minority supplier while being a product leader. Else it couldnt be done without a economic penalty to the company.

1. "Uhm no. Your thread is an epic fail of misunderstanding."
- I call double negative.

2. Unless we have actual knowledge from the inside of intels economics division, none of us are qualified to conclude how intel can maximize profits from a product line. given supply & demand, intels share of that cake plus future estimates may well paint a picture where it is profitable to postpone the next 'great thing'.
Point is, we do not know!
 

ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
20,378
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1. "Uhm no. Your thread is an epic fail of misunderstanding."
- I call double negative.

2. Unless we have actual knowledge from the inside of intels economics division, none of us are qualified to conclude how intel can maximize profits from a product line. given supply & demand, intels share of that cake plus future estimates may well paint a picture where it is profitable to postpone the next 'great thing'.
Point is, we do not know!

Please. We know Intel needs to sell a new CPU to make money. This is how their business works. It doesnt work by selling you the same thing over and over again. People simply keep using what they got if nothing new and better aint interesting.

We know Intel is spending record amounts on R&D for the same reason as well. No innovation equals no sales.

This topic have come up over and over again. And over and over again its been debunked.

The same goes for all the tinfoil stories about higher prices.

If Intel could, they would release CPUs every 6 months with an incentive to upgrade. Because thats how they would make more money.
 
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meloz

Senior member
Jul 8, 2008
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IB-E matters a lot to those who have a SB-E in use right now. For power users the large socket is more desirable. Intel are milking the SB-E for as long as they can, there is nothing else in existence that can beat SB-E (other than IB-E).

Makes you wonder when they will release the large socket cousin of Haswell. Two years after desktop and notebook parts? Their profit margins are so huge they can afford to be "generous" and release large socket CPUs on time, it is not as if they sell any product at loss. But then the CEO and board only sees $ in everything, milk the market for every penny.

Intel's overwhelming obsession with profit margins makes you wonder how they will compete in the low wattage arena with ARM? Sure, Intel will likely wreck everyone in sheer performance / watt with Airmont, but if they insist on charging $200 for their CPU / SoC people will still use ARM chips.
 

Idontcare

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
21,110
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2. Unless we have actual knowledge from the inside of intels economics division, none of us are qualified to conclude how intel can maximize profits from a product line. given supply & demand, intels share of that cake plus future estimates may well paint a picture where it is profitable to postpone the next 'great thing'.
Point is, we do not know!

We don't know specifics but we do know generalities.

Just because we don't know precisely how the climate and weather works doesn't mean we can't talk about the summer months being warmer than the winter months.

Some things can be spoken to, and about, despite the long list of known unknowns we can catalogue on the subject topic. Economic policy is one of those, along with the weather.

Consider that in a matter of speaking what you say has always been true.

Why is node cadence on a 2 yr pace instead of a 2 month pace? It isn't because of technology barriers, purely economic. Given the cost to develop a new node, it must be left in production running the bulk of your chip volume for at least 2yrs in order for it to make financial sense to develop the node in the first place.

Anything that has a non-zero timeline could be said to be "delayed to increase profitability".

You aren't really saying anything new in your post, it goes without saying that timelines exist based on an effort to minimize cost and enhance profitability.

But IB-E's timeline really has nothing to do with the desktop demand, it depends entirely on server demand. If IB-E is being delayed it is only because the IB-based Xeons are being delayed.

But in a manner of speaking each and every delay that has ever occurred in the history of mankind's business ventures can be said to have occurred for financial reasons, because someone somewhere decided to not spend a billion dollars to fix it in a day when they surmised they could spend $10m and fix it in 90 or 100 days.

Companies that operate with good sense tend to be profitable for a reason, financial smarts.
 

NTMBK

Lifer
Nov 14, 2011
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They launched Sandy Bridge E ahead of its accompanying Xeons, and what happened? We got a not entirely functional implementation of PCIe3 on first gen boards. If this delay means that IB-E chipsets get the same level of verification and testing that their Xeon counterparts get, I am A-OK with that.
 

Charles Kozierok

Elite Member
May 14, 2012
6,762
1
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I hate these sorts of articles.

The reasons for the delay are not completely clear.

But that doesn't stop them from leading with an insinuation:

Due to lack of direct competitors, Intel retains maximum flexibility not over release schedule of the chip, but also over its final specifications. As it appears, for certain undisclosed reasons Intel recently decided to delay the launch of the next Core i7 Extreme to Q4 2013.

Why does every minor delay in the release of any CPU have to involve this sort of speculative nonsense? How about.. they did it for marketing reasons? Or they wanted more space after the Haswell launch?

How about.. because it wasn't entirely ready?
 

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
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14,494
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Please. We know Intel needs to sell a new CPU to make money. This is how their business works. It doesnt work by selling you the same thing over and over again. People simply keep using what they got if nothing new and better aint interesting.
....
If Intel could, they would release CPUs every 6 months with an incentive to upgrade. Because thats how they would make more money.

. Meeh meeh, if you say so it must be true .. cause like, you said so, and had the economics class back in highschool so you must know. MKayThx. Dont friggin deal in absolutes dude, need a lesson? Look at my sig.
So, to what level should the market be saturated before it makes sense to press on a new architecture? Customers will need ROI as well, there is a billion variables involved here that makes this NOT a "Push moar new chips to make moar monies dude".
 

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
25,001
14,494
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..Why is node cadence on a 2 yr pace instead of a 2 month pace? It isn't because of technology barriers, purely economic. Given the cost to develop a new node, it must be left in production running the bulk of your chip volume for at least 2yrs in order for it to make financial sense to develop the node in the first place.

...

But in a manner of speaking each and every delay that has ever occurred in the history of mankind's business ventures can be said to have occurred for financial reasons, because someone somewhere decided to not spend a billion dollars to fix it in a day when they surmised they could spend $10m and fix it in 90 or 100 days.

1. I will guesstimate that it is because it is one humongous ship and the kind of planning and execution involved dictates that you from the get-go knows (need to know) what direction and speed you are sailing two years down the 'road'. And of course roi and margins and and and .... I have no problem imagining that intels execution would have been different if they knew, ahead of time, that bulldozer would be a massive fail.
So it is like, if intel gets the whole cake for them selves, but need 50% more time to eat it all .. they would be kind of nuts not to eat it .. or some of it at least, right?

2. Is excellent logic and applies just fine, imo, to the concept at hand.