I've got the itch

Dman877

Platinum Member
Jan 15, 2004
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I own a 2004 TSX 6spd with about 55k on it. The car is in great shape, it's pretty fun to drive, gets high 20's mpg, and hasn't had a single problem yet. I bought it outright and I'm sure I could keep it another ten years no problem.

Unfortunately, like many here in the garage, I get the itch every once in a while and I'm looking at swapping it for a MS3. The MS3 I have my eye on is listed on eBay but it's only 40 minutes away. It's an 07 with 21k on the odo. They have it listed at 19.9 for the buy-it-now, don't know what the reserve is. KBB on them is ~18k. KBB on my car is ~15k.

Now, my credit is sort of non-existent. I'm young and have never had a loan. I have a CC but that doesn't mean much right? Anyway, in trying to justify this, I'm thinking a loan for ~4k would help flesh out my credit and having a MS3 would be icing on the cake :).

I live in New England and the car wouldn't be garaged. Are 0 degree nights a problem for turbo's? Anyone driven both cars and have any impressions to share?

I need a reality check.
 

T2urtle

Diamond Member
Oct 18, 2004
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cold weather is great for turbos.... more power. in the summer time if it gets really hot you will notice your car have lack of power, combine that with the AC being on, which is more of the drain you can see a good lost in pick up.

me being young as well i can see the wanting a newer car idea. it looks tempting i've done it myself. with the evo's new and used as well as the WRX and etc. never went thru with it. i felt those cars have a greater chance of being beated on by the 1st owners. getting a loan for that small amount might be hard at a low rate. the TSX has a taste of luxury and smoothness in suspension. i highly doubt a MS3 will give you that. a MS3 will give you a whole lot of torque steer but from what i heard you need swap out motor mounts as they easily break when you launch the car enough times. You just get back into a sense of mini-race car driver vs a young professional. I know the non-speed 3's had sub-par MPG, like in the mid 20's rather then what other 4 bangers should be getting. The handling should be better on the ms3 but coming from a TSX which was considered one of the better FWD hanlding cars when it came out, you might not notice much.

i would think about saving money, for 2-3 more years and getting something better like a 335i or w/e they have out then. that would be a nice mix of a TSX+ ms3 power. but put me in your shoes and i really might go for the ms3 once test driven.
 

Dman877

Platinum Member
Jan 15, 2004
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ARGH! That was no help at all turtle :p j/k. But seriously, that's exactly what's going through my head right now. I'm just tired of always being practical. The comment about motor mounts has me worried though. Replacing a motor mount can't be cheap...
 

HannibalX

Diamond Member
May 12, 2000
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I vote to keep the TSX. You own it. It's yours. It's in perfect working order. It gets good gas mileage.
 

T2urtle

Diamond Member
Oct 18, 2004
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Originally posted by: Dman877
ARGH! That was no help at all turtle :p j/k. But seriously, that's exactly what's going through my head right now. I'm just tired of always being practical. The comment about motor mounts has me worried though. Replacing a motor mount can't be cheap...

yea i know it wasn't help. but its just in my mind a lot too. every time i come accross a EVO9 @ 17k or so.

it just tempts me so much. matter of fact i'm waiting for the newer WRX's to come out and i'm sure i'll be asking myself that question once again.



motor mounts should be covered under warranty in most cases by they just keep breaking if you launch hard enough. i think there are other small things with it.

A lot of people have complaints that the TSX stinks because they cant swap out the radio. But the ones with navi enjoy theirs because the navi hack makes it a HUGE dvd player. the TSX is a nice car, its not something to pass up easily. I feel it would be great with a little more power say 20hp,
 

Arkaign

Lifer
Oct 27, 2006
20,736
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Originally posted by: iFX
I vote to keep the TSX. You own it. It's yours. It's in perfect working order. It gets good gas mileage.

^^ x2

To go to something sportier/more power, you do *NOT* want FWD.

Go AWD, go RWD, or keep what you got.
 

MiataNC

Platinum Member
Dec 5, 2007
2,215
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Originally posted by: Arkaign
Originally posted by: iFX
I vote to keep the TSX. You own it. It's yours. It's in perfect working order. It gets good gas mileage.

^^ x2

To go to something sportier/more power, you do *NOT* want FWD.

Go AWD, go RWD, or keep what you got.

^^ X3
 

JDub02

Diamond Member
Sep 27, 2002
6,209
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Originally posted by: Arkaign
Originally posted by: iFX
I vote to keep the TSX. You own it. It's yours. It's in perfect working order. It gets good gas mileage.

^^ x2

To go to something sportier/more power, you do *NOT* want FWD.

Go AWD, go RWD, or keep what you got.

For the track or a rally, you're right. But in the real world, FWD is fine. And the sporty ones handle really well. Besides, the OP lives in the New England area, so FWD or AWD is a must. RWD is just downright scary once it starts snowing.

Dman - the swap might be tempting, especially since you're looking at a MS3 (I love those cars), but keep your Acura. Start putting back a monthly loan payment to yourself and buy a car in a few years with the cash you've saved. The MS3 is an awesome car, but it's not worth the financial loss you'll take. Cars are some of the worst investments out there. And just think of the speeding tickets you'll avoid by not having a turbo car. :)
 

joutlaw

Golden Member
Feb 18, 2008
1,108
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I'd vote to keep the TSX too... The 6 speeds are fairly hard to find and I think they are better balanced vehicle.... performance/luxury/value.

 

HannibalX

Diamond Member
May 12, 2000
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Originally posted by: JDub02
Originally posted by: Arkaign
Originally posted by: iFX
I vote to keep the TSX. You own it. It's yours. It's in perfect working order. It gets good gas mileage.

^^ x2

To go to something sportier/more power, you do *NOT* want FWD.

Go AWD, go RWD, or keep what you got.

For the track or a rally, you're right. But in the real world, FWD is fine. And the sporty ones handle really well. Besides, the OP lives in the New England area, so FWD or AWD is a must. RWD is just downright scary once it starts snowing.

Dman - the swap might be tempting, especially since you're looking at a MS3 (I love those cars), but keep your Acura. Start putting back a monthly loan payment to yourself and buy a car in a few years with the cash you've saved. The MS3 is an awesome car, but it's not worth the financial loss you'll take. Cars are some of the worst investments out there. And just think of the speeding tickets you'll avoid by not having a turbo car. :)

Hmmmm. I simply do not agree.

I don't "mind" FWD for a DD but I prefer the more precise control of RWD even in my DD. As for driving RWD in the snow - in all my years I have never had a problem. My RWD car does very, wery well in the snow and I have never felt "out of control" or "unsafe". Plus it's a hell of a lot more fun.
 

Arkaign

Lifer
Oct 27, 2006
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Originally posted by: iFX
Originally posted by: JDub02
Originally posted by: Arkaign
Originally posted by: iFX
I vote to keep the TSX. You own it. It's yours. It's in perfect working order. It gets good gas mileage.

^^ x2

To go to something sportier/more power, you do *NOT* want FWD.

Go AWD, go RWD, or keep what you got.

For the track or a rally, you're right. But in the real world, FWD is fine. And the sporty ones handle really well. Besides, the OP lives in the New England area, so FWD or AWD is a must. RWD is just downright scary once it starts snowing.

Dman - the swap might be tempting, especially since you're looking at a MS3 (I love those cars), but keep your Acura. Start putting back a monthly loan payment to yourself and buy a car in a few years with the cash you've saved. The MS3 is an awesome car, but it's not worth the financial loss you'll take. Cars are some of the worst investments out there. And just think of the speeding tickets you'll avoid by not having a turbo car. :)

Hmmmm. I simply do not agree.

I don't "mind" FWD for a DD but I prefer the more precise control of RWD even in my DD. As for driving RWD in the snow - in all my years I have never had a problem. My RWD car does very, wery well in the snow and I have never felt "out of control" or "unsafe". Plus it's a hell of a lot more fun.

Yep. FWD *IS* just fine, but when you get to the kind of power/weight offered by MS3, SRT-4, etc, you have some compromises, particularly when trying to give power through curves. FWD + Throttle + Curve = instant understeer. No way around that, even with the ATTS stuff that Honda uses.

For the Mazda3 platform, it's a MKII Focus (Euro model), and it's one of the best-handling FWD vehicles ever made. But it's still FWD, and with mods easily pushing it past the 300hp range, it becomes extremely unwieldy, and contemporaries like the Evo and WRX are just more balanced and usable with that kind of power range.
 

JDub02

Diamond Member
Sep 27, 2002
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Originally posted by: Arkaign

Yep. FWD *IS* just fine, but when you get to the kind of power/weight offered by MS3, SRT-4, etc, you have some compromises, particularly when trying to give power through curves. FWD + Throttle + Curve = instant understeer. No way around that, even with the ATTS stuff that Honda uses.

For the Mazda3 platform, it's a MKII Focus (Euro model), and it's one of the best-handling FWD vehicles ever made. But it's still FWD, and with mods easily pushing it past the 300hp range, it becomes extremely unwieldy, and contemporaries like the Evo and WRX are just more balanced and usable with that kind of power range.

I'm not arguing that RWD/AWD is better for high-horsepower or any race application.

I'm talking practical application. The OP is not talking engine mods, track time, etc. For 99.99% of people, they will never hit the handling limits of the MS3. It's a great car. I'm just tired of the canned " blah blah blah FWD sucks blah blah" responses to sporty FWD cars. All things being equal, a RWD car will outperform a FWD car at their performance limits. But send an average driver down an average road and there will be no difference.
 

JDub02

Diamond Member
Sep 27, 2002
6,209
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Originally posted by: iFX

Hmmmm. I simply do not agree.

I don't "mind" FWD for a DD but I prefer the more precise control of RWD even in my DD. As for driving RWD in the snow - in all my years I have never had a problem. My RWD car does very, wery well in the snow and I have never felt "out of control" or "unsafe". Plus it's a hell of a lot more fun.

You obviously don't live in an area that gets alot of snow. I grew up in Pittsburgh and had spent 3 years in upstate NY. Come winter in Syracuse, RWD cars became driveway ornaments. And in Pittsburgh, when the snow starts, forget about climbing any of the hills with a RWD car. Most of them are tricky with FWD. Now going down hill, they're all sleds no matter which wheels are driving. :Q
 

Baked

Lifer
Dec 28, 2004
36,052
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You only live once, buy the most expensive car you can afford. Oh wait, I thought you said M3. nm
 

HannibalX

Diamond Member
May 12, 2000
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Originally posted by: JDub02
Originally posted by: iFX

Hmmmm. I simply do not agree.

I don't "mind" FWD for a DD but I prefer the more precise control of RWD even in my DD. As for driving RWD in the snow - in all my years I have never had a problem. My RWD car does very, wery well in the snow and I have never felt "out of control" or "unsafe". Plus it's a hell of a lot more fun.

You obviously don't live in an area that gets alot of snow. I grew up in Pittsburgh and had spent 3 years in upstate NY. Come winter in Syracuse, RWD cars became driveway ornaments. And in Pittsburgh, when the snow starts, forget about climbing any of the hills with a RWD car. Most of them are tricky with FWD. Now going down hill, they're all sleds no matter which wheels are driving. :Q

I grew up in Northern Illinois. Don't jump to conclusions. No one taught you to drive I take it?

Keep in mind 95% of police cars and taxis are RWD and they survive every winter.

RWD being poor in snow is a myth perpetuated by people who can't drive or don't want to think about driving.
 

chris7b

Senior member
Nov 11, 2003
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If mileage is a concern my friend owns one and he tends to get around 21 MPG (and thats trying to stay off the pedal)

Its a trade off. The cars is so much fun to drive.
 

zerocool84

Lifer
Nov 11, 2004
36,041
472
126
High powered FWD is much more difficult to drive at it's limit. The average driver doesn't know how to launch a FWD car properly and how to enter and exit a turn. It takes lot's of practice. Trust me I know. Don't downgrade. You have a much nicer car. Speed isn't everything.
 

ayabe

Diamond Member
Aug 10, 2005
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Doesn't comptech make a supercharger for the TSX? ;)

I would look at that before downgrading.
 

Arkaign

Lifer
Oct 27, 2006
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Originally posted by: zerocool84
High powered FWD is much more difficult to drive at it's limit. The average driver doesn't know how to launch a FWD car properly and how to enter and exit a turn. It takes lot's of practice. Trust me I know. Don't downgrade. You have a much nicer car. Speed isn't everything.

^^ Listen to this man, he drives about the most wicked FWD out there (modded SRT-4), and what he's saying is right-on.
 

theeedude

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
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Get a regular 3 Hatch. Plenty of power, don't really need turbo aside from bragging rights.
 

Dman877

Platinum Member
Jan 15, 2004
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A lot of good arguments here. I have thought about the comptech SC for my car but I don't have time to install it. I could have a shop do it but I would really rather do it myself.

As far as winter weather, I've never had a problem in the snow with rwd or fwd vehicles. Getting around in snow is more about how you drive than what you drive unless you live somewhere that gets more than 100 inches a year or they don't plow.

As far as switching to the ms3, I liked it for a couple reasons. I'm young and move around a lot. The hatch would be nice for that. I tend to take corners hard more than I do burnouts at a stop light and I never race, on streets or tracks. What would be nice is a little more torque and highway passing power. However, I'm not sure if that's worth 21 mpg as someone posted above (is that on summer blend?).
 

zerocool84

Lifer
Nov 11, 2004
36,041
472
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Originally posted by: Dman877
A lot of good arguments here. I have thought about the comptech SC for my car but I don't have time to install it. I could have a shop do it but I would really rather do it myself.

As far as winter weather, I've never had a problem in the snow with rwd or fwd vehicles. Getting around in snow is more about how you drive than what you drive unless you live somewhere that gets more than 100 inches a year or they don't plow.

As far as switching to the ms3, I liked it for a couple reasons. I'm young and move around a lot. The hatch would be nice for that. I tend to take corners hard more than I do burnouts at a stop light and I never race, on streets or tracks. What would be nice is a little more torque and highway passing power. However, I'm not sure if that's worth 21 mpg as someone posted above (is that on summer blend?).

Remember that 21 is most likely going light on throttle. Being in boost on any turbo car reduces your mpg DRASTICALLY. If you're worried about mpg, this isn't the car for your. Stick to your TSX. Also taking corners and exiting them correctly and fast is difficult in a high torque FWD car. Torque steer and wheel hop take lots of practice to control properly and there are aftermarket things you can do to help.