Ive found my problem!!!!!

[Cuda1447]

Ok so I downloaded motherboard monitor, and my CPU (I think) is running at a temperature of 73 C. This is on a P4 1.7ghz Processor, whats the desired temp for this? Also, what can I do to fix this? Right now Im just ignoring the problem until my computer freezes...


Im currently running my computer with the case off and a giant box fan next to the case. What could be some possible causes of this ?


And incase it helps any I live in Florida so its naturally warm in my room... any help is GREATLY appreciated, and the faster the better (like it matters at this point) because I don't want to destroy something.

 

[Cerb]

73C is high...73C with the side off and box fan running? How are the CPU and case fans spinning?

I don't know what ideal is since I don't know how it's being read, and IIRC, weren't the 1.7s still Willamettes?

 

[Cuda1447]

When I turn off my box fan next to the case it ran up to 77 C. So the fan definetly helps, I turned it back on, but it hasn't begun cooling off yet. This has got to be way to hot, and is definetly the cause of my lockups.

 

[Cuda1447]

The fan on the CPU is spinning just fine. I even tried blowing out all the dust earlier... as for the CPU fans, all I have is a Antec PSU with dual fans. Nothing else... but still... This rig worked for 2 years and now its starting to mess up? Somethings changed...

 

[oldman420]

reach into the case and firmly grasp the hsf if it is hot as hell to the touch then you are indeed hot but if it feels cool to the touch your probe is lying to you
good luck

 

[Cuda1447]

Originally posted by: oldman420
reach into the case and firmly grasp the hsf if it is hot as hell to the touch then you are indeed hot but if it feels cool to the touch your probe is lying to you
good luck

If I burn my hand Ima kick your ass...


.... check that... Im not reaching in, why else would my comp be freezing up on me?




What can I do to fix this problem guys?

 

[Cuda1447]

Upon restarting my computer with a constant supply of air from my box fan Im running at 46 C. Im going to try and turn my fan off and see what happens then, I'll probably heat up alot...

 

[mechBgon]

One possibility is that the CPU isn't getting effective heat transfer to the heatsink. Here are some possible causes of that:

• The heatsink-receiver cage on the motherboard has lost its grip at one or more corners and so the heatsink is not pressed against the CPU very well (check it to see if it acts loose at any corner)
• The thermal-transfer material between the heatsink's base and the CPU is messed up somehow (you might carefully remove the heatsink, scrape off the thermal patch, clean up the CPU and heatsink, and use good-quality thermal grease to see if that helps)
• The heatsink accidentally got unlatched at one end? Easy to check.
• The CPU's integrated heat spreader (the metal part of the CPU itself) has come unbonded from the rest of it

Software can be a real hit-&-miss thing too... I've seen some pretty strange readings from monitoring software before, so don't rule out the possibility that the software is incorrect.

 

[Cuda1447]

Ok Ive let the computer run for about 10 minutes now, and the reading has gone up to 67. With the box fan on. In a few minutes I'll turn it off and check to see that the heatsink is still on properly and previous things you mentioned. Im not very familiar with that kind of stuff, but I should be able to figure it out by looking at it. Is it normal for the CPU temp to rise a little bit after the computer has been on, or would it be alot more likely in my case (since its not cooling like its supposed to).


And also, since my computer has been freezing up basically, is it possible that my CPU is actually damaged now? Or has my computer basically shutting off been saving my butt?

 

[mechBgon]

Intel designed the P4's to begin throttling back at 67°C, if I recall correctly. Long-term, it probably doesn't do 'em any good, but on the bright side, if it fries then you've got an iron-clad excuse to upgrade! :evil: And upgrading from a 1.7GHz Williamette would be very high on my list of priorities if I owned one I realize you have the added problem of having RDRAM, so you'd need to upgrade your memory too, but keep in the back of your head that a nice Abit NF7-S, a mobile AthlonXP 2400+ and 512MB of PC3200 DDR would make a sweet upgrade for gaming, particularly if you overclock it a bit. Your Antec SL350 ought to be enough to start.

 

[Cuda1447]

Thx for the info Mech.


I plan to upgrade in the future, which would mean buying DDR ram and a new processor, and also a new mobo. I want to spend as little as possible, but get something solid that will last me for awhile. But at the same point I'd like to keep this system working as a backup, so I don't want to HAVE to upgrade ya know?



I tried making sure the heatsink was on properly, didnt look like anything was awry, I just pushed it in a bit. But like I said, Im not to well versed on CPUs etc. So anyone else have any suggestions/ideas?

 

[Cuda1447]

Bumpzor'd






Anyone else have any ideas?

 

[NokiaDude]

If you could get pics of the core, so we could see how much thermal grease is on there, that would help us help you faster.

 

[CZroe]

Originally posted by: oldman420
reach into the case and firmly grasp the hsf if it is hot as hell to the touch then you are indeed hot but if it feels cool to the touch your probe is lying to you
good luck

^wrong

If you touch the HSF and it's not hot, then you have a problem. Heat from the CPU may not be transfering to the HSF effectively. Removing all pads and grease and applying some new thermal paste will help.

Edit by the real CZroe: Damn. My brother (Ichinisan) just loves to use my username when contradicting people... This is like the third time since last night.

 

[Cuda1447]

Couldn't find any thermal paste at Circuit City, doubt they have it at bestbuy either. Anyone know of any places I could go to see if they have it, and roughly how much it will cost?

 

[Gagabiji]

I seriously doubt if you will find anything like that at BB or CC, NewEgg is the place to go.

Arctic Silver Premium Silver Polysynthetic Silver Thermal Compound

 

[Ichinisan]

Both BB and CC have Antec brand "silver" thermal paste.

 

[brianp34]

you can buy thermal paste at radio shack. i've used it, pretty decent stuff. ~$5

 

[VirtualLarry]

Originally posted by: mechBgon
Intel designed the P4's to begin throttling back at 67°C, if I recall correctly.

Interesting. I've seen two machines so far, that don't do thermal-throttling, or don't do it properly, or for some reason it doesn't actually help. One is a Sager OEM laptop, built with desktop parts (desktop PIV 2.4Ghz CPU, think it's a Northwood, it's socket478). Another is a very recently-built desktop system, with an MSI 865PE Neo2-P Platinum mobo, PIV 2.8Ghz HT Northwood CPU, and a Spark 3+ HSF, with copper-inlay base, using generic white thermal paste.

The laptop, can only be run under load for about an hour. After which, it overheats, and crashes. Turning on a tabletop fan and pointing it at the heat vent on the side can extend that time limit by about a half hour.

The desktop, runs ~50C at idle, but can reach 70C+ under load. It had been having some very strange crashing problems before, so thermal paste was re-applied. Seems to be slightly better temps at idle, but still too high under load. Heaksink packaging claims to support a PIV CPU up to 3.0Ghz. This is in a pretty fully-loaded AOpen HX-09 full-tower case, with two exhaust fans mounted at the top of the case, behind the top-most HD bays. Also is using rounded IDE cables.

This is what I don't quite understand - I know that PIVs are supposed to do thermal throttling, but it just doesn't seem to work all that well, at least as far as stability of a running system is concerned. (Maybe it is really only a feature to prevent the chip from burning up? But still, I thought that certain laptop brands/models were proven to end up in thermal-throttling mode, reducing performance.)

After seeing real-world results like these, I'm starting to think more and more that that famous TH video of the XP vs PIV loosing their heatsinks, and the PIV continues to run without crashing, must be totally fake... was it ever proven whether those videos were staged (faked) or not?

 

[VirtualLarry]

Originally posted by: CZroe

Originally posted by: oldman420
reach into the case and firmly grasp the hsf if it is hot as hell to the touch then you are indeed hot but if it feels cool to the touch your probe is lying to you
good luck

^wrong

If you touch the HSF and it's not hot, then you have a problem. Heat from the CPU may not be transfering to the HSF effectively. Removing all pads and grease and applying some new thermal paste will help.

Edit by the real CZroe: Damn. My brother (Ichinisan) just loves to use my username when contradicting people... This is like the third time since last night.

Would the real CZroe, please stand up, please stand up...

Anyways, the comment above is correct. A heatsink that doesn't get very warm, can be an indicator of a poor thermal interface between the CPU and the heatsink. In fact, I had that problem when I first installed my Athlon XP1800 system with the retail HSF. This heatsink was not like the newer ones now shipping, it was only a small all-aluminum one, no copper, and a very low-RPM (1800-2000) fan.

When I first installed it, my CPU temps (via on-die temp sensor) according to MBM were high. However, the heatsink itself wasn't all that warm. So I re-did the thermal grease (removed stupid thermal "pad"), and then the CPU temps stayed lower, for a while, but the heatsink itself got so warm, I could almost not hold my finger to it. At that point, I realized that the slow stock fan was far too "wimpy", so I replaced it with a big 5200 RPM fan that I had leftover from an older huge Slot-1 HSF assembly that I had. Now temps are much more reasonable, from 42C to 46C, for a TBredA 1.667Ghz @ 1.525v.

PS. You know, I just thought of something. HDs should have an "air channel" extending around the two sides and "front" (opposite side of the IDE interface), in a squarish "U" shape. They should have some sort of forced-air cooling, or maybe a sealed channel around the outside that could be optionally connected to a water-cooling rig. That way, drives could be sandwiched above each other, and still have reasonably decent cooling.

I really think that desktop computer systems are going to need water-cooling as a standard feature in the next two years. Plus, it could also cut down on the noise factor of modern PCs.