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quest55720

Golden Member
Nov 3, 2004
1,339
0
0
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: quest55720
I never hear Obama claiming how liberal or left he is.
That's because the voices in your head drown everything else out.
That is why Obama's people always try to discredit the national review study that shows he is the most liberal in the senate.

 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
346
126
Originally posted by: quest55720

It is the democrats who sneak around and pray not to get caught. I never hear Obama claiming how liberal or left he is. Obama is acting like he has shame for his ultra-liberal views.
And I don't recall McCain saying how far right-wing he is.

You are confusing the issue of the massive wrongs of the right wing with the old adage for presidential campaigns, "run in the center".

It's a little like my posting on OJ's guilt in murder and your responding that his work for Avis had no scandal.

Democrats generally walk with their heads high for their positions being morally defensible.

Peace. Helping the poor. Increasing economic development and ensuring everyone gets a fair share of it, some more than others. Protecting the environemnt. Healthcare.

Not a lot to 'hide' about.

On the other hand, the many secret agendas of the right - from the radical Milton Friedman policies forced on other countries that are devastating, the sellouts to the corporatist interests, the constant lying to the public in order to sell them on policies to help the rich at the expense of everyone else (remember "trickle down"?), the constant hypocrisy displayed in the pursuit of power not for the good of the country but for their own interests, and much more.

While only a small number of them are secretly gay and voting against bills to help gays, the lack of character reflected in their behavior is exhibited on other issues by many.
 

quest55720

Golden Member
Nov 3, 2004
1,339
0
0
Originally posted by: Jhhnn
It is the democrats who sneak around and pray not to get caught. I never hear Obama claiming how liberal or left he is. Obama is acting like he has shame for his ultra-liberal views.
Nobody can overcome willful blindness on your part, quest55720. Obama laid out what is a very "Liberal" agenda with his speech in Denver, and many times before, even favorably referencing the rightwing's greatest boogeyman, the New Deal...

Cut your losses- tell us all about how more taxcuts at the top will, uhh, trickle down to the rest of us, rave about Terrarists!, go on and on about something else that might convince the faithful to stay that way, 'cause that's the best you can hope for...
Nope drilling and energy are the best chance for McCain to win. McCain doubled down on drilling and energy with Palin. Palin knows more about the drilling and energy issue than Obama, McCain or Biden.

 

quest55720

Golden Member
Nov 3, 2004
1,339
0
0
Originally posted by: Craig234
Originally posted by: quest55720

It is the democrats who sneak around and pray not to get caught. I never hear Obama claiming how liberal or left he is. Obama is acting like he has shame for his ultra-liberal views.
And I don't recall McCain saying how far right-wing he is.

You are confusing the issue of the massive wrongs of the right wing with the old adage for presidential campaigns, "run in the center".

It's a little like my posting on OJ's guilt in murder and your responding that his work for Avis had no scandal.

Democrats generally walk with their heads high for their positions being morally defensible.

Peace. Helping the poor. Increasing economic development and ensuring everyone gets a fair share of it, some more than others. Protecting the environemnt. Healthcare.

Not a lot to 'hide' about.

On the other hand, the many secret agendas of the right - from the radical Milton Friedman policies forced on other countries that are devastating, the sellouts to the corporatist interests, the constant lying to the public in order to sell them on policies to help the rich at the expense of everyone else (remember "trickle down"?), the constant hypocrisy displayed in the pursuit of power not for the good of the country but for their own interests, and much more.

While only a small number of them are secretly gay and voting against bills to help gays, the lack of character those few show is a shining example of the problem.
Because McCain is a moderate that is why he does not claim how far right he is. I know democrats don't know that word anymore since the party was hijacked by the fringe left after the 2000 election.
 

Balt

Lifer
Mar 12, 2000
12,674
482
126
Originally posted by: quest55720
Originally posted by: Craig234
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: spidey07
Originally posted by: Jhhnn
Originally posted by: spidey07
Once they chew into Obama and the dems reluctance of drilling it will be all over with. Game, set, match.

Voter - "why all this promise of hope and change and yet the change is stupid and goes against basic economics?"

Drill here, drill now, pay less.

You're a victim of simulated reality, Spidey. The whole notion that more drilling will solve our problem wrt oil is like claiming that pissin' into the mississippi in Des Moines will raise the water level in New Orleans enough to matter...

I'm well aware that it's what you want to hear, but that doesn't mean it's the truth, at all...
Don't underestimate the stupidity of the people. Rather, USE it.
Sounds like a good motto for the Republican party. I'm surprised to hear you come right out and SAY it, but whatever...

Of course the irony is that you support them, so how smart does that make you?
Right-wingers: a group of people mostly convinced they're sneaking something by most of the rest.

They have to win, in order not to 'get caught' and have to face their wrongs. United against one thing, the left, who would expose them to and harm them with the truth, hence the war.

Like other criminal enterprises, it's as if they have a shared guilt, the way groups try to compromise each member to create group loyalty out of each member being vulnerable if they betray the group. It leads to bad behavior, like when confronted with someone doing the right thing, their having to mock it, so that the virtues of liberals in fighting for the environment or the poor are mocked to prevent their own weakness being evident. Real conservatives are the original environmentalists, modern righties attack 'tree huggers'.

It's a terrible culture of shame and evil and wrongdoing, and the power games that result are how the Abramoffs and the Abrams, the Roves and the Delays, rise to power.

No Republican was proud of the Medicare drug bill sellout; there were simply Republicans who were corruptly pushing it through, and Republicans who were vulnerable to be forced.

The leadership got its #1 donor industry protected; the lead sponsor quickly resigned for a drug industry reward; and the other members shamefully rationalized their vote.

And the voters got screwed, but the Republicans helped themselved retain power at the expense of the public, as they all sang a pretty song about 'helping Americans get drugs', knowing they'd used a popular cause to ride on for the big bucks taxpayer reward to their donors. Many of them convince themselves they're right, to sleep better at night, but they're not.

The weak people who latch on to authoritarian figures are quick to post their support for these thugs, the 'useful idiots' of the right, feeling powerful in the process.

It is the democrats who sneak around and pray not to get caught. I never hear Obama claiming how liberal or left he is. Obama is acting like he has shame for his ultra-liberal views.
So UHC isn't a leftist idea?

Seriously, what is it you expect him to do? Call a news conference to announce "I'm a leftist."? :p
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,530
3
0
Originally posted by: quest55720
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: quest55720
I never hear Obama claiming how liberal or left he is.
That's because the voices in your head drown everything else out.
That is why Obama's people always try to discredit the national review study that shows he is the most liberal in the senate.
National Review is a discredit in itself as is anyone who uses it as a source.
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,530
3
0
Originally posted by: quest55720
Originally posted by: Craig234
Originally posted by: quest55720

It is the democrats who sneak around and pray not to get caught. I never hear Obama claiming how liberal or left he is. Obama is acting like he has shame for his ultra-liberal views.
And I don't recall McCain saying how far right-wing he is.

You are confusing the issue of the massive wrongs of the right wing with the old adage for presidential campaigns, "run in the center".

It's a little like my posting on OJ's guilt in murder and your responding that his work for Avis had no scandal.

Democrats generally walk with their heads high for their positions being morally defensible.

Peace. Helping the poor. Increasing economic development and ensuring everyone gets a fair share of it, some more than others. Protecting the environemnt. Healthcare.

Not a lot to 'hide' about.

On the other hand, the many secret agendas of the right - from the radical Milton Friedman policies forced on other countries that are devastating, the sellouts to the corporatist interests, the constant lying to the public in order to sell them on policies to help the rich at the expense of everyone else (remember "trickle down"?), the constant hypocrisy displayed in the pursuit of power not for the good of the country but for their own interests, and much more.

While only a small number of them are secretly gay and voting against bills to help gays, the lack of character those few show is a shining example of the problem.
Because McCain is a moderate that is why he does not claim how far right he is. I know democrats don't know that word anymore since the party was hijacked by the fringe left after the 2000 election.
Actually after 2000 McCain abandoned being a Moderate after he was humbled by the Bush Cheney machine and their NeoCon handlers

 

Balt

Lifer
Mar 12, 2000
12,674
482
126
Originally posted by: quest55720
Originally posted by: Jhhnn
It is the democrats who sneak around and pray not to get caught. I never hear Obama claiming how liberal or left he is. Obama is acting like he has shame for his ultra-liberal views.
Nobody can overcome willful blindness on your part, quest55720. Obama laid out what is a very "Liberal" agenda with his speech in Denver, and many times before, even favorably referencing the rightwing's greatest boogeyman, the New Deal...

Cut your losses- tell us all about how more taxcuts at the top will, uhh, trickle down to the rest of us, rave about Terrarists!, go on and on about something else that might convince the faithful to stay that way, 'cause that's the best you can hope for...
Nope oil and oil are the best chance for McCain to win. McCain doubled down on oil and oil with Palin. Palin knows more about the oil and oil issue than Obama, McCain or Biden.
Fixed that for you. There are actually forms of energy other than oil, and I'm not sure Palin knows crap about them.
 

quest55720

Golden Member
Nov 3, 2004
1,339
0
0
Originally posted by: Balt
Originally posted by: quest55720
Originally posted by: Jhhnn
It is the democrats who sneak around and pray not to get caught. I never hear Obama claiming how liberal or left he is. Obama is acting like he has shame for his ultra-liberal views.
Nobody can overcome willful blindness on your part, quest55720. Obama laid out what is a very "Liberal" agenda with his speech in Denver, and many times before, even favorably referencing the rightwing's greatest boogeyman, the New Deal...

Cut your losses- tell us all about how more taxcuts at the top will, uhh, trickle down to the rest of us, rave about Terrarists!, go on and on about something else that might convince the faithful to stay that way, 'cause that's the best you can hope for...
Nope oil and oil are the best chance for McCain to win. McCain doubled down on oil and oil with Palin. Palin knows more about the oil and oil issue than Obama, McCain or Biden.
Fixed that for you. There are actually forms of energy other than oil, and I'm not sure Palin knows crap about them.
Not really for transperation right now or in the near future. Wind and solar do shit for me right now to get to work. Corn based ethanol is a joke right in the country. Like it or not oil for transpertation will be around for a long long time. I know Obama will spend 150 billion and an alternative will be invented the next day dirt cheap.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
346
126
Originally posted by: quest55720

Because McCain is a moderate that is why he does not claim how far right he is. I know democrats don't know that word anymore since the party was hijacked by the fringe left after the 2000 election.
Wow, you are sure squeezing a lot of wrong per word there.

1. McCain is far from 'moderate', with the exception of a few issues. He has a very right-wing core set of views on economics and foreign policy.

He's 'moderate' when it's convenient for him to say he is in his campaigning. "Hey there maverick!"

BTW, over 90% voting with Bush is just one summary statistic.

2. Democrats are the centrist party now (and really pretty much always have been. At the height of FDR's liberal policies, they were compromises to stop the real left.)

You have to be pretty ignorant of our political culture to say something so perverse and ironic, when it's the Republican party that's been hijacked. The Republican party's base used to be the Northeast, intellectuals who were not afraid to speak out about the benefits of helping the environment and the public good - those people have been chased out of the party.

There are many 'moderate' Republicans who have fled the party (in addition to those who were chased out of office). Off the top of my head, a couple that come to mind are Kevin Phillips (who was a senior strategist for Nixon's campaign), and John Dean, not to mention Sen. Jeffords, a;; of whom have written books about their party's move way to the right.

3. The right has been trying to say that the Democratic party has 'moved to the left' for many decades', hardly since 2000.

Indeed, since 2000 it's been way too weak for the progressives, not standing up to Bush nearly enough, especially in the Senate.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,676
136
Originally posted by: quest55720
Originally posted by: Jhhnn
It is the democrats who sneak around and pray not to get caught. I never hear Obama claiming how liberal or left he is. Obama is acting like he has shame for his ultra-liberal views.
Nobody can overcome willful blindness on your part, quest55720. Obama laid out what is a very "Liberal" agenda with his speech in Denver, and many times before, even favorably referencing the rightwing's greatest boogeyman, the New Deal...

Cut your losses- tell us all about how more taxcuts at the top will, uhh, trickle down to the rest of us, rave about Terrarists!, go on and on about something else that might convince the faithful to stay that way, 'cause that's the best you can hope for...
Nope drilling and energy are the best chance for McCain to win. McCain doubled down on drilling and energy with Palin. Palin knows more about the drilling and energy issue than Obama, McCain or Biden.

Oh, so you acknowledge that Obama isn't ashamed of his liberal credentials, or not?

Nice to see you took my advice about going on about something else- oil, and Palin really doesn't know squat about it, other than from a repub Alaskan's perspective, that more drilling is always a good thing, period. For them, it's an issue of jobs, cashflow and development, not to mention the perks available to sympathetic politicos from big Oil.

It's just another aspect of the unsustainable course repubs have set before us. the current situation wrt energy consumption, balance of payments, federal debt, private debt, particularly wrt mortgages, job creation and concentration of wealth issues all add up to very bad news for the whole idea of a broad middle class.

Claiming that more drilling will do much to deal with energy issues is like pissing into the Mississippi in Minneapolis, claiming it'll significantly raise the water level in New Orleans. Pure pablum and wishful thinking. Apparently, the repub base is so accustomed to such foolishness that they now demand it...
 

miketheidiot

Lifer
Sep 3, 2004
11,062
1
0
Originally posted by: quest55720
Originally posted by: Jhhnn
It is the democrats who sneak around and pray not to get caught. I never hear Obama claiming how liberal or left he is. Obama is acting like he has shame for his ultra-liberal views.
Nobody can overcome willful blindness on your part, quest55720. Obama laid out what is a very "Liberal" agenda with his speech in Denver, and many times before, even favorably referencing the rightwing's greatest boogeyman, the New Deal...

Cut your losses- tell us all about how more taxcuts at the top will, uhh, trickle down to the rest of us, rave about Terrarists!, go on and on about something else that might convince the faithful to stay that way, 'cause that's the best you can hope for...
Nope drilling and energy are the best chance for McCain to win. McCain doubled down on drilling and energy with Palin. Palin knows more about the drilling and energy issue than Obama, McCain or Biden.
i'm sure she her journalism degree gave he many deep and meaningful insights into the industry.
 

quest55720

Golden Member
Nov 3, 2004
1,339
0
0
Originally posted by: miketheidiot
Originally posted by: quest55720
Originally posted by: Jhhnn
It is the democrats who sneak around and pray not to get caught. I never hear Obama claiming how liberal or left he is. Obama is acting like he has shame for his ultra-liberal views.
Nobody can overcome willful blindness on your part, quest55720. Obama laid out what is a very "Liberal" agenda with his speech in Denver, and many times before, even favorably referencing the rightwing's greatest boogeyman, the New Deal...

Cut your losses- tell us all about how more taxcuts at the top will, uhh, trickle down to the rest of us, rave about Terrarists!, go on and on about something else that might convince the faithful to stay that way, 'cause that's the best you can hope for...
Nope drilling and energy are the best chance for McCain to win. McCain doubled down on drilling and energy with Palin. Palin knows more about the drilling and energy issue than Obama, McCain or Biden.
i'm sure she her journalism degree gave he many deep and meaningful insights into the industry.

And Obama being a lawyer helps understanding the issues? She has experience being on an oil board in alaska. She even took down memeber of that board over corruption. She has also went against the oil companies and tore up the old roylaties agreement that was screwing alaska when oil prices went up. She also got a new 40billion dollar NG pipeline passed after it has been stalled for almost 30 years. What has Obama done again to help get gas or oil flowing? Siding with his party when they tabled any energy vote and went on vacation? Were are the bills that Obama has authored to help with energy? Well he did vote for the bush energy plan that gave billions to the oil companies.


http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232?video=836304396

She has won me over drill drill drill while we work on alternatives. She wants a complete energy policy.
 

SViscusi

Golden Member
Apr 12, 2000
1,200
8
81
Originally posted by: quest55720
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: quest55720
I never hear Obama claiming how liberal or left he is.
That's because the voices in your head drown everything else out.
That is why Obama's people always try to discredit the national review study that shows he is the most liberal in the senate.
Actually it's a National Journal study, and it suffers from a problem of a small sample size when it tries to rank those running for higher office. A better indicator is Progressive Punch which give Obama a lifetime ranking of 27th most liberal.
 

Budmantom

Lifer
Aug 17, 2002
13,103
1
81
Originally posted by: SViscusi
Originally posted by: quest55720
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: quest55720
I never hear Obama claiming how liberal or left he is.
That's because the voices in your head drown everything else out.
That is why Obama's people always try to discredit the national review study that shows he is the most liberal in the senate.
Actually it's a National Journal study, and it suffers from a problem of a small sample size when it tries to rank those running for higher office. A better indicator is Progressive Punch which give Obama a lifetime ranking of 27th most liberal.
Who would want to be known as a liberal?

 

miketheidiot

Lifer
Sep 3, 2004
11,062
1
0
Originally posted by: Budmantom
Originally posted by: SViscusi
Originally posted by: quest55720
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: quest55720
I never hear Obama claiming how liberal or left he is.
That's because the voices in your head drown everything else out.
That is why Obama's people always try to discredit the national review study that shows he is the most liberal in the senate.
Actually it's a National Journal study, and it suffers from a problem of a small sample size when it tries to rank those running for higher office. A better indicator is Progressive Punch which give Obama a lifetime ranking of 27th most liberal.
Who would want to be known as a liberal?
anyone who is remotely sane.
 

miketheidiot

Lifer
Sep 3, 2004
11,062
1
0
Originally posted by: quest55720
Originally posted by: miketheidiot
Originally posted by: quest55720
Originally posted by: Jhhnn
It is the democrats who sneak around and pray not to get caught. I never hear Obama claiming how liberal or left he is. Obama is acting like he has shame for his ultra-liberal views.
Nobody can overcome willful blindness on your part, quest55720. Obama laid out what is a very "Liberal" agenda with his speech in Denver, and many times before, even favorably referencing the rightwing's greatest boogeyman, the New Deal...

Cut your losses- tell us all about how more taxcuts at the top will, uhh, trickle down to the rest of us, rave about Terrarists!, go on and on about something else that might convince the faithful to stay that way, 'cause that's the best you can hope for...
Nope drilling and energy are the best chance for McCain to win. McCain doubled down on drilling and energy with Palin. Palin knows more about the drilling and energy issue than Obama, McCain or Biden.
i'm sure she her journalism degree gave he many deep and meaningful insights into the industry.

And Obama being a lawyer helps understanding the issues? She has experience being on an oil board in alaska. She even took down memeber of that board over corruption. She has also went against the oil companies and tore up the old roylaties agreement that was screwing alaska when oil prices went up. She also got a new 40billion dollar NG pipeline passed after it has been stalled for almost 30 years. What has Obama done again to help get gas or oil flowing? Siding with his party when they tabled any energy vote and went on vacation? Were are the bills that Obama has authored to help with energy? Well he did vote for the bush energy plan that gave billions to the oil companies.


http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232?video=836304396

She has won me over drill drill drill while we work on alternatives. She wants a complete energy policy.
can't defend her without attacking obama?

Palin knows more about the drilling and energy issue than Obama, McCain or Biden.
so the fact that she removed some dude from some board in alaska makes her an expert on the science and economics of the oil industry? Oh but she did manage to rework a contract though, pretty awesome, i'm sure here knowledge of oil distrution led hear to this, right?
 

Budmantom

Lifer
Aug 17, 2002
13,103
1
81
Originally posted by: miketheidiot
Originally posted by: Budmantom
Originally posted by: SViscusi
Originally posted by: quest55720
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: quest55720
I never hear Obama claiming how liberal or left he is.
That's because the voices in your head drown everything else out.
That is why Obama's people always try to discredit the national review study that shows he is the most liberal in the senate.
Actually it's a National Journal study, and it suffers from a problem of a small sample size when it tries to rank those running for higher office. A better indicator is Progressive Punch which give Obama a lifetime ranking of 27th most liberal.
Who would want to be known as a liberal?
anyone who is remotely sane.
So why is Obama running from the #1 ranking?
 

miketheidiot

Lifer
Sep 3, 2004
11,062
1
0
Originally posted by: Budmantom
Originally posted by: miketheidiot
Originally posted by: Budmantom
Originally posted by: SViscusi
Originally posted by: quest55720
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: quest55720
I never hear Obama claiming how liberal or left he is.
That's because the voices in your head drown everything else out.
That is why Obama's people always try to discredit the national review study that shows he is the most liberal in the senate.
Actually it's a National Journal study, and it suffers from a problem of a small sample size when it tries to rank those running for higher office. A better indicator is Progressive Punch which give Obama a lifetime ranking of 27th most liberal.
Who would want to be known as a liberal?
anyone who is remotely sane.
So why is Obama running from the #1 ranking?
some people actually like factual accuracy

 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,261
1,604
126
Originally posted by: miketheidiot
Originally posted by: Budmantom
Originally posted by: miketheidiot
Originally posted by: Budmantom
Originally posted by: SViscusi
Originally posted by: quest55720
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: quest55720
I never hear Obama claiming how liberal or left he is.
That's because the voices in your head drown everything else out.
That is why Obama's people always try to discredit the national review study that shows he is the most liberal in the senate.
Actually it's a National Journal study, and it suffers from a problem of a small sample size when it tries to rank those running for higher office. A better indicator is Progressive Punch which give Obama a lifetime ranking of 27th most liberal.
Who would want to be known as a liberal?
anyone who is remotely sane.
So why is Obama running from the #1 ranking?
some people actually like factual accuracy
Like having an uncle that liberated a war camp? Like that?
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
3
0
Originally posted by: GrGr
Originally posted by: Dari
Originally posted by: loki8481
what's Obama's claim to fame on the economy? he ran against the economy under the last democratic administration in the primaries.
He has no claim, but with the economy in shambles and China rising, we need a forward-looking President. McCain has admitted he doesn't know shit about economics and his one solution is to drill for oil. Mrs. Palin can help him in that but that's about it. Furthermore, by highlighting the fact that the economy is in the gutter, people will naturally look towards the Democrats for leadership. With economists from U. of Chicago and Harvard on his team, I think there will be plenty of bright ideas.
Quick your Kool Aid levels are dropping alarmingly. You need to chant *the GDP is growing, the GDP is growing, the GDP is growing...* for 10 minutes straight.

Unfortunately for your line of reasoning economists from Chicago and Harvard have created a lot of the economic theories that have put the US in the current hole it finds itself in now. Electing Obama means essentially more of the same.
GDP growth is meaningless without adjustment for inflation and that number, adjusted for inflation, is not one the government is quick to post because it's terrible and shows basically a flat economy for years now. You know this, but I'm stating it in case others in the thread haven't :)

 

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