"It's Official: The Stimulus Isn't a Waste of Money"

Siddhartha

Lifer
Oct 17, 1999
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/085992...DeW5faGVhZGxpbmVfbGlzdARzbGsDaXQzOXNvZmZpY2lh

By MICHAEL GRUNWALD Michael Grunwald – Fri Oct 1, 4:45 am ET
People of good faith can disagree over whether President Obama's $787 billion stimulus package is creating enough jobs, piling on too much debt, or helping the country in the long run. But it's about time to retire one set of critiques of the stimulus: that it would be riddled with fraud, hamstrung by delays, and crippled by cost overruns. So far, while the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act is clearly not a political success, it is just as clearly a managerial success - on schedule, under budget, and according to independent investigators, remarkably free of fraud.

Yesterday, the administration met its self-imposed deadline of spending 70% of the Recovery Act, or $551 billion, by the end of the fiscal year. Almost all of the unspent stimulus money is already committed to specific projects, except for a few longer-range initiatives like high-speed rail and electronic health records. And the completed work has cost less than expected, so the savings have financed over 3,000 additional projects, from airport improvements in Atlanta to new child-care centers at military bases in Louisiana, North Carolina, Mississippi and Oklahoma, from a new five-lane road in Jacksonville to a $14.5 million transformation of a World War 2 ammunition factory into an eco-friendly government building in St. Louis. (See TIME's special report "After One Year, A Stimulus Report Card.")

Meanwhile, Earl Devaney, the hard-nosed watchdog leading the independent Recovery Accountability and Transparency Board, recently testified to Congress that investigators "simply haven't seen the kind of fraud that we would have imagined as professional law enforcement." Before the stimulus passed, experts predicted the government would lose 5% to 7% of it to fraud; today, out of over 190,000 contracts, grants and loans, less than 0.2% are under investigation. The board is using newfangled computer algorithms that can track suspicious spending patterns before there's a complaint; the inspectors general of every major agency are bird-dogging the stimulus as well. Devaney likes to say that if you really want to steal, you'd be crazy to steal from the Recovery Act; it's way too transparent, with every dollar traceable at www.recovery.gov, and there are way too many eyes on it.

That transparency has sometimes carried a political price; for example, innocuous reporting errors on the website quickly became national news about stimulus money supposedly funneled to phantom congressional districts. At the same time, GOP Senators Tom Coburn and John McCain have targeted a slew of Recovery Act projects they consider wasteful; although some waste is in the eye of the beholder, it's probably safe to assume that the $762,000 for interactive dance software and the $18,500 to paint a mural on a Montana band shell could be better spent elsewhere. And Devaney's staff has identified several ineligible contract recipients, leading to the cancellation of at least $18 million worth of grants. (See how the stimulus is changing America.)

But those are pretty small dents on a $787 billion chassis. In the words of Vice President Joe Biden, the administration's point man on the stimulus, fraud has been "the dog that hasn't barked." At the same time, concerns that excessive vigilance against fraud would slow the pace of spending don't seem to have panned out, either.

"There were a lot of dire predictions, but we've found ways to make them not come true," says Ed DeSeve, who oversees the stimulus out of Biden's office. "It wasn't fate or kismet. It was the actions of lots and lots of people."

It was the hard-driving, motor-mouthed vice president who set the tone, promising state and local officials that all their stimulus-related questions would be answered within 24 hours, harassing Cabinet secretaries to get their money out the door, pestering his staff to make sure nothing fishy slipped through the cracks, appearing at fifty-six Recovery Act events around the country. Biden talked incessantly about government becoming more responsive, more accountable, more effective. He personally blocked 260 projects that flunked his smell test, including a $120,000 Army Corps of Engineers plan to print brochures about a lake cleanup. "We said, hey, man, no brochures, put it on a website," Biden recalled in an interview this summer. "Stupid thing, but it saved that dollar amount." (See the top 10 Joe Biden gaffes.)

Another example of Biden's responsiveness: Last June, Republican Senator Pat Roberts of Kansas complained that stimulus money was about to fund a resurfacing of Highway 96 in Cherokee County, just in time for more stimulus money to fund a nearby Superfund cleanup requiring heavy trucks that would rip up the road again. The next day, Biden called the Department of Transportation: "I said, hey, man, don't pave the road before the project is finished with the heavy trucks. Flip it." Roberts promptly thanked him on the Senate floor: "The White House moved in an expeditious fashion, and quite frankly, I didn't expect they could move that fast."

It's not that the implementation of the Recovery Act has been glitch-free; for example, a $5 billion program to weatherize low-income homes got off to a dreadfully slow start. But the problems weren't allowed to fester, and now the program is back on track. DeSeve holds conference calls with all the agencies twice a week, and Biden has demanded monthly reports on every project in his bailiwick; if anyone's got a problem with that, he told the Cabinet, take it up with the president.

With unemployment still so high, the administration's successful oversight of the stimulus does have an otherwise-did-you-enjoy-the-play-Mrs.-Lincoln feel. The recovery remains tepid, so the Recovery Act remains unpopular. The White House says there would be 3 million more unemployed Americans without it, and many independent economists agree, but the "failed stimulus" has become a Republican symbol of everything wrong with Obama's Washington. Even most Democrats - including the president himself - won't utter the word "stimulus" in public anymore.

But so far: no indictments, no major scandals, no missed deadlines, no busted budgets. Hey, man: That's more than good enough for government work.

This is a Time Magazine article posted on Yahoo. I am not sure where Time fits in as an acceptable source. The article does refer to the results of an "independent investigation" of Mr Obama's stimulus. Which speaks for itself.
 

PokerGuy

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
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Just because it wasn't directly and overtly stolen doesn't mean it wasn't wasted. Lots of roads getting paved that didn't need to be etc.
 

Siddhartha

Lifer
Oct 17, 1999
12,505
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Just because it wasn't directly and overtly stolen doesn't mean it wasn't wasted. Lots of roads getting paved that didn't need to be etc.

Can you please provide a link for information about roads being paved that did not need to be?
 
Nov 30, 2006
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So no or little fraud magically means the Stimulus Package wasn't a waste of money? Seriously? The logic of the Party of Intellectualism never ceases to amaze me.
 

Siddhartha

Lifer
Oct 17, 1999
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So no or little fraud magically means the Stimulus Package wasn't a waste of money? Seriously? The logic of the Party of Intellectualism never ceases to amaze me.

Who or what is the "party of Intellectualism"? Is Time a member of this party?
 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
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Who or what is the "party of Intellectualism"? Is Time a member of this party?
It's an RNC propaganda tag, used as a gratuitous attack when one has nothing useful to contribute.

I found the OP interesting. It shows that contrary to Republican dogma, government can work pretty effectively with the right people. It's encouraging to see they've managed the program itself so well, regardless of one's opinion about the projects "stimulated" and their effect on the economy.
 
Nov 30, 2006
15,456
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It's an RNC propaganda tag, used as a gratuitous attack when one has nothing useful to contribute.
I made up the term based on another thread...I was not aware that the RNC is using it as a propaganda tag. I call bullshit.

I expressed an opinion that lack of fraud is inconsequential in determining whether or not the Stimulus Package was a success or not. It is a logical fallacy to say that lack of fraud equates to saying the "stimulus isn't a waste of money".
 

GroundedSailor

Platinum Member
Feb 18, 2001
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But so far: no indictments, no major scandals, no missed deadlines, no busted budgets. Hey, man: That's more than good enough for government work.

That's good enough even for private work.

It's an RNC propaganda tag, used as a gratuitous attack when one has nothing useful to contribute.

I found the OP interesting. It shows that contrary to Republican dogma, government can work pretty effectively with the right people. It's encouraging to see they've managed the program itself so well, regardless of one's opinion about the projects "stimulated" and their effect on the economy.

This is not the only example of well managed Govt programs. See medicare.


..
 

PokerGuy

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
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Can you please provide a link for information about roads being paved that did not need to be?

I've personally seen at least 3 roads near my house get completely repaved. I happen to know one of the D.O.T. folks, so I asked him about the process and he said "they weren't scheduled to be repaved for another few years, but the department doesn't want to lose out on funding so they are accelerating a lot of the paving projects". Anecdotal, yes. Is it likely to be the case all over the country? Absolutely, it makes complete sense.

Like I said, it's good that it wasn't outright stolen, but given the anemic results of the spending I'm sure we could have found better ways to spend close to $900 Billion.
 
Dec 30, 2004
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I've personally seen at least 3 roads near my house get completely repaved. I happen to know one of the D.O.T. folks, so I asked him about the process and he said "they weren't scheduled to be repaved for another few years, but the department doesn't want to lose out on funding so they are accelerating a lot of the paving projects". Anecdotal, yes. Is it likely to be the case all over the country? Absolutely, it makes complete sense.

Like I said, it's good that it wasn't outright stolen, but given the anemic results of the spending I'm sure we could have found better ways to spend close to $900 Billion.

several hours (couple hundred miles) of i84 were repaved in Oregon that were perfectly fine, for one.

In GA, we've got a 50 mile road that hardly anybody drives, was paved 2 years ago, and was just repaved with the stimulus money.

Most wasteful spending I've ever seen. I voted for hope and change, what a crock of crap that was.
 

PeshakJang

Platinum Member
Mar 17, 2010
2,276
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several hours (couple hundred miles) of i84 were repaved in Oregon that were perfectly fine, for one.

In GA, we've got a 50 mile road that hardly anybody drives, was paved 2 years ago, and was just repaved with the stimulus money.

Most wasteful spending I've ever seen. I voted for hope and change, what a crock of crap that was.

I visited my father near Chicago last week, and the main road in my subdivision was being stripped/repaved... curbs and all. It was literally just done 2 years ago, and was in almost perfect condition. Giant sign at the front of the road saying it was a stimulus project. Probably cost at least a few million.

Meanwhile, on the expressways, never-ending construction all around Chicago (80/94, 294, 290, 53) where nothing ever seems to get better... while the worst parts haven't been touched in at least a decade and a half. The 294/290 split is probably one of the worst segments of the road I drive on regularly, yet I can't remember the last time it was touched.
 

zsdersw

Lifer
Oct 29, 2003
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There are some stretches of road around Milwaukee that are being redone because of the stimulus.. and that's a good thing, because they were pretty bad.
 

PokerGuy

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
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I'm sure at least 5% of the stimulus money was well spent, the rest is probably being wasted or is ending up in the pockets of the well connected.
 

ericlp

Diamond Member
Dec 24, 2000
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Just because it wasn't directly and overtly stolen doesn't mean it wasn't wasted. Lots of roads getting paved that didn't need to be etc.


haha and 99.9% of them getting paved that NEEDED TO BE!!! Amazing how that works huh?
 

spacejamz

Lifer
Mar 31, 2003
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wasnt there a thread here recently about the 5 jobs that were saved by millions of stimulus dollars??
 

woolfe9999

Diamond Member
Mar 28, 2005
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But hey...it wasn't a waste on money...because there was no fraud!

Of course, if there WAS a lot of fraud, you'd be all over that as evidence of its failure. Objectivity here? Not so much.

I think regardless of the article's title, the point of its content is not so much to address the controversial question of how effective the spending was in stimulating the economy. It is, rather, to address a common contention that most government spending is frought with fraud an incompetence.

- wolf
 

Blackjack200

Lifer
May 28, 2007
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They just did a huge maintanence job on a truss bridge right near my house, and man did it ever need it. Looks beautiful now. It's hard to imagine stimulus money being wasted in PA, our infrastructure is falling apart all over the place because no-one wants to pay more than 3% taxes..
 

Atreus21

Lifer
Aug 21, 2007
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This article reminds me of when historians in 2005 were preemptively calling Bush's presidency a failure in regards to history.
 

Balt

Lifer
Mar 12, 2000
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The roads they repaved around here with ARRA money were awful before. Since the shocks and struts on my car are shot, believe me I noticed every pothole.

I think it probably varies a lot depending on where you live. I'm in one of the financially poorest states, so there are probably more roads in need of substantial repair. If you are from a wealthier state, your representatives are still going to fight for and get 'their cut' of the highway funding pie for their district or state, but the downside is it may be used to repave roads that weren't really in need.

The fact is, no one in Washington is going to turn down 'free' money. Even if it might be the best thing for the nation as a whole, it's not going to help their chances at re-election.
 

mizzou

Diamond Member
Jan 2, 2008
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You cant please everyone

I have yet to see a piece of scholarly work showing we would be better off without the stimulous

We do still need naysaers though, it keeps the gov in check
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
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Some good news at least. I don't think Stimulus Rex has been successful, but relatively free of fraud is a good thing nonetheless. Better by far to spend money doing needless repairs than to have it stolen. Even if we only get another two years of life from a repaved road, at least that's SOME value.
 

FerrelGeek

Diamond Member
Jan 22, 2009
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Similar thing here. Stretch of high-visibility road gets 'fixed' when it wasn't needed while several of the side streets are falling apart. Money spent foolishly is no less foolish when it's spent efficiently.

several hours (couple hundred miles) of i84 were repaved in Oregon that were perfectly fine, for one.

In GA, we've got a 50 mile road that hardly anybody drives, was paved 2 years ago, and was just repaved with the stimulus money.

Most wasteful spending I've ever seen. I voted for hope and change, what a crock of crap that was.

I didn't vote for 'hope and change'. I knew it was gonna be hoax and chump change.
 

her209

No Lifer
Oct 11, 2000
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It could be worse. We could have lost, i.e., unaccount for, those billions doing "infrastructure" in Iraq and called it "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED".
 
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