It's official: Real middle class income dropped 7% - 2000-2010. Lowest since 1996...

[Londo_Jowo]

Keep chipping away at the lower and lower middle foundation by shipping good paying, wealth creating jobs out and you'll see the results below. Only a matter of time until the building collapses. :whiste:


http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Middl...3.html?x=0&sec=topStories&pos=6&asset=&ccode=

Raise taxes, increase government spending, and print more money, that will get the jobs back.

 

[Infohawk]

But but but they didn't have cell phones back in the days! You can't account for that and therefore we're actually richer even though most people recognize they're quality of life is declining and that the US is in decline. / sarcasm.

 

[Wordplay]

I'm not saying that we need to tax and redistribute but we currently have record number of people going to college and what's it getting us? Lower real wages?

Makes sense in a way. Going to college isn't much of an option in today's world, it's a must. Entry level career jobs requiring a four year degree just to get your foot in the door if you don't know anyone to help you get in.

Personally I think in 10 or 15 years all the mid level jobs are going to take a hit in pay as well. All these people that are fighting for entry level jobs today will be fighting against each other for more experienced required jobs tomorrow.

 

[thraashman]

Raise taxes, increase government spending, and print more money, that will get the jobs back.

Well with the ultra wealthy and corporations sitting on record levels of cash and asking to be given more, taxing it from them and having the government spend it looks like what will have to be done. Conservatives have done everything they can to give the rich more money, and then those rich haven't even begun to create jobs with it.

 

[senseamp]

 

[1prophet]

Yes, rather than look to yourself and try and get as much out of life (money included) as possible, lets look to everyone else and covet what they have. It's so much easier to dumb down the playing field rather than play the hand you were dealt and try and make the best of it. Easier to tax people and redistribute that wealth rather than get off your ass and better yourself everyday and get more and more of it yourself.

The ones who want the playing field dumbed down are the top 1% because if the people in the middle classes rise up too high on the socio/economic ladder they might have to share or worse yet feel threatened that they might be displaced from their modern aristocracy.

Little bit of seldom known trivia, the Elite of Wall Street refer to the working classes beneath them as ants, to be used, worked to death, and if need be stomped on if they get too uppity.

 

[xj0hnx]

On the one hand we have the brainwashed who believe everything is a matter of personal initiative and all that's needed is an attitude of hard work, that income inequality is a matter of varying degrees of determination and then we have the reality of the Scandinavian countries and the quality of life there vs the shanties and villas in South America. Only the brain dead programmed can ignore what the real world tells us in spades.

Why do you morons constantly compare The United States to countries that are barely bigger than one of our states, and have completely different social, and economic make up, and then pretend it's somehow relevant?

 

[Infohawk]

Entry level career jobs requiring a four year degree just to get your foot in the door if you don't know anyone to help you get in.

That's just a sign of a weak labor market. Remember that during up times companies are willing to pay for their employees' further education or *gasp* give them on the job training. These companies get too many applications so they tack on things like a four year degree. The solution for the government is not to put more money into University of Phoenix but to fix this job market so that it doesn't take a pHd in rocket science in order to be a car mechanic.

 

[Craig234]

It's not surprising but it is a bit sad and just goes to show why a capitalistic democracy needs fairly steep progressive tax rates and policies to remain healthy and prosperous.

Exactly. But have the citizens been propagandized against it?

 

[senseamp]

Middle class income is a tax on job creators. We need to cut that tax even more.

 

[matt0611]

Raise taxes, increase government spending, and print more money, that will get the jobs back.

Yeah, they never quite get to getting beyond step 1 do they?

Take more money from people like Warren Buffet to...spend it and invest it better than him?

Lol, yeah sure...we all know what a great steward of our money our government has been.

Somehow it will make everything better for the average american though, just have faith...

 

[Engineer]

Yep I'm lying. My parents didn't sign a work permit for me to go ride my bike 1 mile to make pizza at a local pizza shop. They really do like pizza in China you know. Ignorance is bliss, eh?

So you have worked EVERYDAY since you were 14? Every day?

LOL

Bullshit.

 

[randomrogue]

I see lots of excuses in here.

Since I went from nothing to upper middle class I'll tell you how it can be done.

1. Don't buy a new car every 5 years. Don't buy a bunch of useless shit like a new TV every 3 years and every iphone/gizmo out there. Recognize the difference between need and want. Are you buying a frapuchino at starbucks every morning? Think about what that is costing you per year. It's about $1,400 of your after tax dollars. I can do a lot better than spend that on an overpriced drink. That money invested and making 5% a year will be worth $52,321.57 in 20 years.
2. Have a bank account and set a budget for yourself. Look at your income and look at your expenses. Are you living at a reasonable level? Your housing costs should be less than 30% for example. You should be saving and not living beyond your means unless you're going to die of a terminal disease soon. Then you run up debt and live like a rock star. Don't forget to invite me.
3. Invest your money in things that make sense. Don't just listen to a stock broker who tells you to buy XYZ stock which is at $60 a share but has never made a penny in profit. Once you have a decent chunk of change saved up invest your money with someone who's profits off you are directly proportional to the amount of money you are making. I'd rather pay a guy 2% of my portfolio's value than a flat fee or something since it motivates them to actually do a good job.
4. Don't accrue any credit card debt. Pay it off each month. For the love of all that is holy don't ever use one of those check cashing services that grace every corner.
5. Minimize your debt to the bare minimum like a car payment, student loans, and mortgage.
6. Don't buy a house just because you think you need to. There is a direct relationship between renting and buying. While all these idiots went out and bought houses at prices that made no sense I rented. I'm hundreds of thousands of dollars more wealthy than them now.
7. Keep your credit perfect. Your insurance premiums all rise with poor credit as does things that are more obvious like your car payment.
8. Use a 401K. You can also invest in a ROTH IRA and other financial vehicles. There was a point where I was buying T-bills with my cash since I could keep my cash reserves almost completely liquid but make a few extra percent on my money. See point 3.
9. Have a personality and make contacts. From my experience wealth is created by making contacts. Want a good job? You can start at the bottom but you can also start somewhere higher if you can make those necessary contacts. With the internet today there are so many ways to do this that if you're just getting out of college and applying to 200 jobs at the bottom you're probably doing it completely wrong.
10. Work hard. Be better than the rest. If you're mediocre you should expect a mediocre income.

You'll notice that I didn't mention education. I personally think it's important but it's not necessary to create wealth. I know a lot of people who are wealthy and didn't finish college. Most did go though and then dropped out to work. It definitely helps though if you don't have contacts. Our system of education though works much like a guild. We hire from within our majors and sister majors. However if you have contacts you can get into the guild without the education.

 

[xBiffx]

So you have worked EVERYDAY since you were 14? Every day?

LOL

Bullshit.

Yes, everyday. You don't have to put in eight hours, and you don't have to be getting a paycheck for it to be called work. Each and everyday, I am either a)at my full time job, b)at my part time job when I was in school or on weekends now, c)volunteering my time. I count even 60 minutes as a day worked. Sorry if you don't.

Please don't presume to know me, know my work ethic, or think that you have caught me in some sort of a lie.

 

[randomrogue]

I started working when I was 14. You would get a school permit if I remember correctly. I then took the bus to work after class.

 

[werepossum]

I see lots of excuses in here.

Since I went from nothing to upper middle class I'll tell you how it can be done.

1. Don't buy a new car every 5 years. Don't buy a bunch of useless shit like a new TV every 3 years and every iphone/gizmo out there. Recognize the difference between need and want. Are you buying a frapuchino at starbucks every morning? Think about what that is costing you per year. It's about $1,400 of your after tax dollars. I can do a lot better than spend that on an overpriced drink. That money invested and making 5% a year will be worth $52,321.57 in 20 years.
2. Have a bank account and set a budget for yourself. Look at your income and look at your expenses. Are you living at a reasonable level? Your housing costs should be less than 30% for example. You should be saving and not living beyond your means unless you're going to die of a terminal disease soon. Then you run up debt and live like a rock star. Don't forget to invite me.
3. Invest your money in things that make sense. Don't just listen to a stock broker who tells you to buy XYZ stock which is at $60 a share but has never made a penny in profit. Once you have a decent chunk of change saved up invest your money with someone who's profits off you are directly proportional to the amount of money you are making. I'd rather pay a guy 2% of my portfolio's value than a flat fee or something since it motivates them to actually do a good job.
4. Don't accrue any credit card debt. Pay it off each month. For the love of all that is holy don't ever use one of those check cashing services that grace every corner.
5. Minimize your debt to the bare minimum like a car payment, student loans, and mortgage.
6. Don't buy a house just because you think you need to. There is a direct relationship between renting and buying. While all these idiots went out and bought houses at prices that made no sense I rented. I'm hundreds of thousands of dollars more wealthy than them now.
7. Keep your credit perfect. Your insurance premiums all rise with poor credit as does things that are more obvious like your car payment.
8. Use a 401K. You can also invest in a ROTH IRA and other financial vehicles. There was a point where I was buying T-bills with my cash since I could keep my cash reserves almost completely liquid but make a few extra percent on my money. See point 3.
9. Have a personality and make contacts. From my experience wealth is created by making contacts. Want a good job? You can start at the bottom but you can also start somewhere higher if you can make those necessary contacts. With the internet today there are so many ways to do this that if you're just getting out of college and applying to 200 jobs at the bottom you're probably doing it completely wrong.
10. Work hard. Be better than the rest. If you're mediocre you should expect a mediocre income.

You'll notice that I didn't mention education. I personally think it's important but it's not necessary to create wealth. I know a lot of people who are wealthy and didn't finish college. Most did go though and then dropped out to work. It definitely helps though if you don't have contacts. Our system of education though works much like a guild. We hire from within our majors and sister majors. However if you have contacts you can get into the guild without the education.

Excellent post. I'd only add that success for those not blessed with intelligence is getting more difficult. Two of the great things about this country have always (well, since the late thirties) been our lack of class distinctions and the opportunity for a hard-working man or woman to enjoy a pretty good life without any particularly outstanding intelligence, education or ideas, simply through hard work. It's why we define middle class by income rather than those who are neither the idle rich nor workmen; we EMBRACE workmen. We still have those opportunities, especially in the trades, but with the loss of so much of our manufacturing, those opportunities are now many fewer. For instance, the number of workers who can one day work their way up the ladder to become plant managers are directly proportional to the number of plants.

 

[Engineer]

I see lots of excuses in here.

Since I went from nothing to upper middle class I'll tell you how it can be done.

1. Don't buy a new car every 5 years. Don't buy a bunch of useless shit like a new TV every 3 years and every iphone/gizmo out there. Recognize the difference between need and want. Are you buying a frapuchino at starbucks every morning? Think about what that is costing you per year. It's about $1,400 of your after tax dollars. I can do a lot better than spend that on an overpriced drink. That money invested and making 5% a year will be worth $52,321.57 in 20 years.
2. Have a bank account and set a budget for yourself. Look at your income and look at your expenses. Are you living at a reasonable level? Your housing costs should be less than 30% for example. You should be saving and not living beyond your means unless you're going to die of a terminal disease soon. Then you run up debt and live like a rock star. Don't forget to invite me.
3. Invest your money in things that make sense. Don't just listen to a stock broker who tells you to buy XYZ stock which is at $60 a share but has never made a penny in profit. Once you have a decent chunk of change saved up invest your money with someone who's profits off you are directly proportional to the amount of money you are making. I'd rather pay a guy 2% of my portfolio's value than a flat fee or something since it motivates them to actually do a good job.
4. Don't accrue any credit card debt. Pay it off each month. For the love of all that is holy don't ever use one of those check cashing services that grace every corner.
5. Minimize your debt to the bare minimum like a car payment, student loans, and mortgage.
6. Don't buy a house just because you think you need to. There is a direct relationship between renting and buying. While all these idiots went out and bought houses at prices that made no sense I rented. I'm hundreds of thousands of dollars more wealthy than them now.
7. Keep your credit perfect. Your insurance premiums all rise with poor credit as does things that are more obvious like your car payment.
8. Use a 401K. You can also invest in a ROTH IRA and other financial vehicles. There was a point where I was buying T-bills with my cash since I could keep my cash reserves almost completely liquid but make a few extra percent on my money. See point 3.
9. Have a personality and make contacts. From my experience wealth is created by making contacts. Want a good job? You can start at the bottom but you can also start somewhere higher if you can make those necessary contacts. With the internet today there are so many ways to do this that if you're just getting out of college and applying to 200 jobs at the bottom you're probably doing it completely wrong.
10. Work hard. Be better than the rest. If you're mediocre you should expect a mediocre income.

You'll notice that I didn't mention education. I personally think it's important but it's not necessary to create wealth. I know a lot of people who are wealthy and didn't finish college. Most did go though and then dropped out to work. It definitely helps though if you don't have contacts. Our system of education though works much like a guild. We hire from within our majors and sister majors. However if you have contacts you can get into the guild without the education.

While a very nice and commendable post, it won't change the fact that the AVERAGE middle class (and lower class for that matter) person in the US is going to go downhill in wages/benefits as those at the top rise. As long we keep shipping jobs out in the name of bullshit "so called" free trade agreements that are one way to countries with extremely low wages, no regulation and manipulated currencies, we are all eventually come tumbling down with the rest of the building. The only thing that has kept us afloat this long is credit and now that has popped. Not enough bubbles to keep the things from sinking I'm afraid.

 

[Engineer]

Yes, everyday. You don't have to put in eight hours, and you don't have to be getting a paycheck for it to be called work. Each and everyday, I am either a)at my full time job, b)at my part time job when I was in school or on weekends now, c)volunteering my time. I count even 60 minutes as a day worked. Sorry if you don't.

Please don't presume to know me, know my work ethic, or think that you have caught me in some sort of a lie.

*golf clap*

I still think you're lying but I'm starting to get bored with it and not give a shit.

*golf clap* (again).

 

[randomrogue]

While I admit I didn't include intelligence in there, I'm not quite sure how to quantify it. At the end of the day though we're all dealt a hand. Maybe you're dumb as a brick but you can dunk a ball better than anyone else or you can sing. Maybe you simply have to accept that you are not going to be wealthy monetarily but you can be very wealthy by having a great family. How do you measure the value of being the world's best mother? I think that's worth something too.

 

[Ausm]

I see lots of excuses in here.

Since I went from nothing to upper middle class I'll tell you how it can be done.

1. Don't buy a new car every 5 years. Don't buy a bunch of useless shit like a new TV every 3 years and every iphone/gizmo out there. Recognize the difference between need and want. Are you buying a frapuchino at starbucks every morning? Think about what that is costing you per year. It's about $1,400 of your after tax dollars. I can do a lot better than spend that on an overpriced drink. That money invested and making 5% a year will be worth $52,321.57 in 20 years.
2. Have a bank account and set a budget for yourself. Look at your income and look at your expenses. Are you living at a reasonable level? Your housing costs should be less than 30% for example. You should be saving and not living beyond your means unless you're going to die of a terminal disease soon. Then you run up debt and live like a rock star. Don't forget to invite me.
3. Invest your money in things that make sense. Don't just listen to a stock broker who tells you to buy XYZ stock which is at $60 a share but has never made a penny in profit. Once you have a decent chunk of change saved up invest your money with someone who's profits off you are directly proportional to the amount of money you are making. I'd rather pay a guy 2% of my portfolio's value than a flat fee or something since it motivates them to actually do a good job.
4. Don't accrue any credit card debt. Pay it off each month. For the love of all that is holy don't ever use one of those check cashing services that grace every corner.
5. Minimize your debt to the bare minimum like a car payment, student loans, and mortgage.
6. Don't buy a house just because you think you need to. There is a direct relationship between renting and buying. While all these idiots went out and bought houses at prices that made no sense I rented. I'm hundreds of thousands of dollars more wealthy than them now.
7. Keep your credit perfect. Your insurance premiums all rise with poor credit as does things that are more obvious like your car payment.
8. Use a 401K. You can also invest in a ROTH IRA and other financial vehicles. There was a point where I was buying T-bills with my cash since I could keep my cash reserves almost completely liquid but make a few extra percent on my money. See point 3.
9. Have a personality and make contacts. From my experience wealth is created by making contacts. Want a good job? You can start at the bottom but you can also start somewhere higher if you can make those necessary contacts. With the internet today there are so many ways to do this that if you're just getting out of college and applying to 200 jobs at the bottom you're probably doing it completely wrong.
10. Work hard. Be better than the rest. If you're mediocre you should expect a mediocre income.

You'll notice that I didn't mention education. I personally think it's important but it's not necessary to create wealth. I know a lot of people who are wealthy and didn't finish college. Most did go though and then dropped out to work. It definitely helps though if you don't have contacts. Our system of education though works much like a guild. We hire from within our majors and sister majors. However if you have contacts you can get into the guild without the education.

I worked my way up from the bottom too. It took alot of hard work and a strong work ethic to get where I am now but I really don't think this has anything to do with the middle class being ground into nonexistence.

 

[randomrogue]

I worked my way up from the bottom too. It took alot of hard work and a strong work ethic to get where I am now but I really don't think this has anything to do with the middle class being ground into nonexistence.

I can tell you why they are. At least my opinion. Once again it's because we are spending money unwisely and have very poor leaders.

If you are middle class then you are most likely in a duel income household. This means that your kids go to daycare. That cost can exceed the income of one partner. That's out of control. We need free day care if the middle class is going to have a chance.

Health care costs are rising year by year. We need to tear down the HMO/PPO system and start over. Unfortunately I don't think our government is capable of doing it. The amount of money they waste is just ridiculous. In fact none of these problems can be solved until we get a whole new Congress and President in office. In order to fully fix our health care system we need to deal with frivolous lawsuits first. This is way too complicated for the dumb asses we elect to represent us.

We have no effective mass transit in most parts of the country and even where it exists there is a stigma associated with it based on your "class". Therefore many people are spending hundreds of dollars a month on fuel. Worse yet the gas efficiency of our cars is much lower than other first world countries.

Illegal immigration is costing tax payers too much money now and effecting our schools quite a bit. We are one of the only countries in the world that has no control of our borders and doesn't enforce immigration laws. This might not seem related to the middle class but while wealthy people might be able to go to a private school a middle class family is having to send their child to a public school and they are not receiving the level of education that they need to compete globally. My friends who teach have students in their classes who cannot speak English or are years behind where they should be and it's taking up too much of their time. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literacy_in_the_United_States

I could go on but my food is done.

 

[AyashiKaibutsu]

We EMBRACE workmen. We still have those opportunities, especially in the trades, but with the loss of so much of our manufacturing, those opportunities are now many fewer. For instance, the number of workers who can one day work their way up the ladder to become plant managers are directly proportional to the number of plants.

It's not just the less hardworking jobs we're also moving more and more to having our workmen be lower class when they used to be middle class. Someone working a hard day making decent money is seen as a leech on society/job creators these days. How are these business suposed to operate and create jobs out of the kindness of their heart if they can't garuantee their executives millions even if they f-up and pay everyone else no more than 10 dollars an hour (or preferably even less than current minimum wage).

 

[Ausm]

I can tell you why they are. At least my opinion. Once again it's because we are spending money unwisely and have very poor leaders.

I think you answered the question with your first sentence.

 

[randomrogue]

There was a mass email going around urging us to stand up and ask for an amendment to the constitution. Kinda appropriate for here although I didn't read the whole thing. Let me find it.

I am not sure this is exactly the right formula. There could be some constitutional and legal issues here that need to be addressed also. 12 years may be too long but the point here is to begin the dialogue. We need to rethink part of our system. For the most part, it is the greatest form of government ever devised but our Founders never expected our Representatives to be full time legislators. The issue here is to get people thinking and pushing for some sort of change. There are term limits on the presidency (22nd Amendment), so there is a precedent for this already. Read this, think about it, come up with your own suggestions and pass it on.



Please consider forwarding, if you agree.

I have cleaned this e-mail of all other names, sending it to you in hopes that you will keep it going and keep it clean. This is something I believe in and I hope you all read it all the way through.

The 26th amendment (granting the right to vote for 18 year-olds) took only 3 months & 8 days to be ratified! Why? Simple! The people demanded it. That was in 1971...before computers, before e-mail, before cell phones, etc.

Of the 27 amendments to the Constitution, seven (7) took 1 year or less to become the law of the land...all because of public pressure.

I'm asking each addressee to forward this email to a minimum of twenty people on their address list; in turn ask each of those to do likewise.

In three days, most people in The United States of America will have the message. This is one idea that really should be passed around.

Congressional Reform Act of 2011

1. Term Limits.

12 years only, one of the possible options below.

A. Two Six-year Senate terms
B. Six Two-year House terms

C. One Six-year Senate term and three Two-Year House terms

2. No Tenure / No Pension.

A Congressman collects a salary while in office and receives no pay when they are out of office.

3. Congress (past, present & future) participates in Social Security.

All funds in the Congressional retirement fund move to the Social Security system immediately. All future funds flow into the Social Security system, and Congress participates with the American people.

4. Congress can purchase their own retirement plan, just as all Americans do.

5. Congress will no longer vote themselves a pay raise. Congressional pay will rise by the lower of CPI or 3%.

6. Congress loses their current health care system and participates in the same health care system as the American people.

7. Congress must equally abide by all laws they impose on the American people.

8. All contracts with past and present Congressmen are void effective 1/1/12.

The American people did not make this contract with Congressmen. Congressmen made all these contracts for themselves.

Serving in Congress is an honor, not a career. The Founding Fathers envisioned citizen legislators, so ours should serve their term(s), then go home and back to work.

If each person contacts a minimum of twenty people then it will only take three days for most people (in the U.S. ) to receive the message. Maybe it is time.


LET'S FIX CONGRESS!!!!! If you agree, pass it on. If not, just delete.
You are one of my 20+. Please keep it going.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

You'll notice that I didn't mention education. I personally think it's important but it's not necessary to create wealth. I know a lot of people who are wealthy and didn't finish college. Most did go though and then dropped out to work. It definitely helps though if you don't have contacts. Our system of education though works much like a guild. We hire from within our majors and sister majors. However if you have contacts you can get into the guild without the education.

I agree, an education will open doors but it doesn't guarantee that you will make big money I'm making more than most engineers where I work.

The engineers I've worked around understand how to write logic for PLC's though over the years I've had to modify their logic to make it work. I've transferred to another position 2 years ago and I still get calls to review some logic or package.