It's official -- Note2 infringes says Apple

[jiffylube1024]

Samsung and Google need to man up and create a brand new OS that doesn't copy the UI and apps-centric iOS. Even I can see that Apple came out with a phone and smart phone system that had never been done before and Google just copied it down to the bones.

I respect Microsoft for trying something new with Windows 8 instead of just copying.

Apple is pissed at the Android because it copied nearly every revolutionary thing it did with the original iPhone. Apple doesn't care about rounded edges. They are only using that to sue. Apple thought it was 10 years ahead of the competition. But since Android basically copied everything iOS did well, they only had about 2-3 years lead.

I'm owner of a Samsung Galaxy Nexus and Windows 7 PC.

You mean like Apple copied the GUI and mouse from Xeroc PARC?

There is imitation in the pc industry - Mac copies pc and pc copies Mac. That kind of copying drives the industry forward. It's when you make an EXACT COPY and pretend that it's the same product that there's problems.

 

[Chiropteran]

Linpack is a bit of a wash because all the reviewers are using the Dalvik linpack instead of a native one (what the iPhone5 bench is running). Native Linpack is more than three times faster.

(the Linpack app on Play is dalvik but StabilityTest on Play has a natively compiled one)

Wow, that makes a HUGE difference. Why are reviewers using a castrated version of linpack in android reviews?

http://imgur.com/raTlo

 

[Chiropteran]

You're trying to justify cores with no benchmarks nor real life usage.

The 5 beats the note 2 in benchmarks and real life usage.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eO2ba2MubLQ

Somehow the note 2 is "simply" more powerful? Lol. The top end currently is the s4 pro and A6. Nothing beats it until A15 is here. Sorry.

I can't watch the video right now, at work.

http://www.barefeats.com/iph502.html

Is that an accurate linpack result for the iPhone 5? Because my note 2 blows it away, see results above.

As far as real world usage, I can run two apps at the SAME TIME on my Note 2. No matter how fast your iPhone is you will never be able to do that, so doing the same things will take twice as long because you have to close and reopen apps constantly

 

[MrX8503]

So, what do you think of Apple's infringement claim?

I think the claim is just as invalid as Samsung's claim for the 5 and ipad mini.

 

[zsdersw]

I think the claim is just as invalid as Samsung's claim for the 5 and ipad mini.

I'm surprised to see you type that.

 

[ChronoReverse]

Wow, that makes a HUGE difference. Why are reviewers using a castrated version of linpack in android reviews?

http://imgur.com/raTlo

Because most mobile reviewers are terrible (out of ignorance rather than malice). Other people besides me would comment on the fallacies in their reviews only to be ignored.

There's lots of these cases: a common one is GLBenchmark where results often don't make sense (you'd see 720p offscreen scores being faster than 480p scores) or using Sunspider as a CPU benchmark (ridiculous since it depends far more on the javascript engine optimizations).

 

[NikolaeVarius]

I'm surprised to see you type that.

Not really. He uses a common doublethink method where instead of outright answering the question, he externalizes the answer that is based on reality by comparing it to a lawsuit from a competitor that he truthfully hates.

Its a common way for irrational people to justify their worldview.

 

[cheezy321]

Not really. He uses a common doublethink method where instead of outright answering the question, he externalizes the answer that is based on reality by comparing it to a lawsuit from a competitor that he truthfully hates.

Its a common way for irrational people to justify their worldview.

LOL. Self Awareness. You lack it.

 

[Skurge]

Because most mobile reviewers are terrible (out of ignorance rather than malice). Other people besides me would comment on the fallacies in their reviews only to be ignored.

There's lots of these cases: a common one is GLBenchmark where results often don't make sense (you'd see 720p offscreen scores being faster than 480p scores) or using Sunspider as a CPU benchmark (ridiculous since it depends far more on the javascript engine optimizations).

Yeah, the GLBenchmark results are pretty ridiculous yet everyone keeps using them. It's pretty much impossible to find a good in depth review on mobile devices. AT does good ones, but their battery and performance testing is lacking TBH.

 

[mikegg]

Yeah when i look at jellybean, i think, 'man, that looks so much like ios'. You idiot.

Let's refrain from the personal attacks, shall we?

Moderator TheStu

I have my Galaxy Nexus right in front of me. It pretty much works and uses just like an iPhone.

Rows of 4 apps
Bottom row for calling/texting/browser apps
Slide my finger to the left or right brings out more rows of apps
Press and hold an app and you can move it or remove it

Yep. Works exactly like the original iPhone. Having different icons for apps or having widgets don't make it any different.

I might be using an Android device, but I'm not dumb enough to think that Android didn't completely copy what made the original iPhone revolutionary. Bottom line is, minus the minor cosmetics, my Android phone feels just like my old iPhone 3G from 6 years ago.

Tell me with a straight face that there is no copying done:

My Galaxy Nexus running 4.2:

iPhone 5:

 

[Brian Stirling]

I have my Galaxy Nexus right in front of me. It pretty much works and uses just like an iPhone.

Rows of 4 apps
Bottom row for calling/texting/browser apps
Slide my finger to the left or right brings out more rows of apps
Press and hold an app and you can move it or remove it

Yep. Works exactly like the original iPhone. Having different icons for apps or having widgets don't make it any different.

I might be using an Android device, but I'm not dumb enough to think that Android didn't completely copy what made the original iPhone revolutionary. Bottom line is, minus the minor cosmetics, my Android phone feels just like my old iPhone 3G from 6 years ago.

Yep, the icons are about the same size and have a similar placement. You know, my car, a Ford Focus, has four wheels and they are in a similar placement as EVERY SINGLE CAR IN THE WORLD!


Brian

 

[snikt]

Yep, the icons are about the same size and have a similar placement. You know, my car, a Ford Focus, has four wheels and they are in a similar placement as EVERY SINGLE CAR IN THE WORLD!


Brian

lol

 

[mikegg]

Yep, the icons are about the same size and have a similar placement. You know, my car, a Ford Focus, has four wheels and they are in a similar placement as EVERY SINGLE CAR IN THE WORLD!


Brian

On 5 November 1895, George B. Selden was granted a United States patent for a two-stroke automobile engine (U.S. Patent 549,160). This patent did more to hinder than encourage development of autos in the USA. Selden licensed his patent to most major American automakers, collecting a fee on every car they produced

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_automobile

This is what Apple is trying to do - collect a fee for every Android phone sold. I thought this was common knowledge? In my own opinion, Apple does deserve to collect a fee for every Android phone sold. It's only fair. If Xerox thinks Apple copied them, then they can sue also.

 

[JD50]

You just owned yourself.

 

[TuxDave]

I swear we need some type of P&N-like hole to shove lawsuit related threads in. These lawsuit threads seriously bring out the worst in people. Everyone just dives in looking for posts to reinforce their existing belief and look where we are now. There's a plethora of misinformation that just gets brought out over and over again. It's like the zombie of arguments that you can disprove over and over again but it never really dies.

One side:
"Apple thinks they invented rounded rectangles. They're not innovative!"

Other side:
"Samsung can't innovate and only knows how to copy"

/widely off-topic rant

As for my contribution to the OP. I don't know much about law but both sides are adding almost every device on the planet in their respective lawsuits. It's probably the smart thing to do because I guess the upside of having one of them stick outweighs the downside of having that added device not stick. Personally, it's a big "whatever" to me.

 

[cheezy321]

I swear we need some type of P&N-like hole to shove lawsuit related threads in. These lawsuit threads seriously bring out the worst in people. Everyone just dives in looking for posts to reinforce their existing belief and look where we are now. There's a plethora of misinformation that just gets brought out over and over again. It's like the zombie of arguments that you can disprove over and over again but it never really dies.

One side:
"Apple thinks they invented rounded rectangles. They're not innovative!"

Other side:
"Samsung can't innovate and only knows how to copy"

/widely off-topic rant

As for my contribution to the OP. I don't know much about law but both sides are adding almost every device on the planet in their respective lawsuits. It's probably the smart thing to do because I guess the upside of having one of them stick outweighs the downside of having that added device not stick. Personally, it's a big "whatever" to me.

Dont forget the usual completely irrelevent mention of Xerox PARC. Like that situation is anything close to this one or is even useful in conversation.

This. I say we ban all lawsuit related posts. All it does is increase the hive mentality of the android contingent. Go to reddit if you want a bunch of basement dwellers to agree with your every comment.

 

[MrX8503]

Not really. He uses a common doublethink method where instead of outright answering the question, he externalizes the answer that is based on reality by comparing it to a lawsuit from a competitor that he truthfully hates.

Its a common way for irrational people to justify their worldview.

Truthfully hate? Lol, hate is a strong word. I don't hate Samsung.

 

[Skurge]

I have my Galaxy Nexus right in front of me. It pretty much works and uses just like an iPhone.

Rows of 4 apps
Bottom row for calling/texting/browser apps
Slide my finger to the left or right brings out more rows of apps
Press and hold an app and you can move it or remove it

Yep. Works exactly like the original iPhone. Having different icons for apps or having widgets don't make it any different.

I might be using an Android device, but I'm not dumb enough to think that Android didn't completely copy what made the original iPhone revolutionary. Bottom line is, minus the minor cosmetics, my Android phone feels just like my old iPhone 3G from 6 years ago.

Tell me with a straight face that there is no copying done:

My Galaxy Nexus running 4.2:

iPhone 5:

When I had my gnex, I spent very little time in the app drawer and I had very icons on my home screen. I had widgets on almost all of my homescreens. I didn't have to open apps to check updates and If I had to, I could just launch them from the widgets.

I have a Lumia 800 right now. Windows Phone is in the middle now. You get more information than from simple icons, but it's extremely limited. Very few of them have any usable information. but I hardly spend any time in the app drawer or whatever MS call the line of icons to the right of the homescreen.

Nobody mentions the pull down menu iOS ripped off android which, honestly is one of androids best features that it does does much better than iOS, Google Now id probably next on apple's list, and yet everyone still maintains that all that android does is copy. Yes, android has copied some things, but so has iOS even cosmetic things as well.

 

[Puddle Jumper]

I can't watch the video right now, at work.

http://www.barefeats.com/iph502.html

Is that an accurate linpack result for the iPhone 5? Because my note 2 blows it away, see results above.

As far as real world usage, I can run two apps at the SAME TIME on my Note 2. No matter how fast your iPhone is you will never be able to do that, so doing the same things will take twice as long because you have to close and reopen apps constantly

I am glad you caught that. So much for A6 being superior, here is my score on a stock Galaxy S3 i747

So a stock S3 with a dual core S4 has no problem beating Apple's brand new SoC. I wish someone with a Nexus 10, Nexus 4, or DNA would post a run to go ahead and put A6 out of its misery.

 

[TerryMathews]

I have my Galaxy Nexus right in front of me. It pretty much works and uses just like an iPhone.

Rows of 4 apps
Bottom row for calling/texting/browser apps
Slide my finger to the left or right brings out more rows of apps
Press and hold an app and you can move it or remove it

Yep. Works exactly like the original iPhone. Having different icons for apps or having widgets don't make it any different.

I might be using an Android device, but I'm not dumb enough to think that Android didn't completely copy what made the original iPhone revolutionary. Bottom line is, minus the minor cosmetics, my Android phone feels just like my old iPhone 3G from 6 years ago.

Tell me with a straight face that there is no copying done:

My Galaxy Nexus running 4.2:

iPhone 5:

You must be joking.

UI layout & large icons: Nokia 7710, LG Prada
On screen keyboard: Microsoft, dates back to Palm-sized PC
Silent switch: Palm Treo
Native apps: the entire industry minus Apple.
App store: Handspring nee Palm
Slide to unlock: NeoNode N1
One app running, save state: Palm

Apple innovated a ton... At Newton. The iPhone is a combination of many other design elements. Apple deserves credit for making smartphones successful. Not for designing the whole thing ground up.

You don't recognize any Android innovation? Then you're a fool. You're losing sight of the forest for the trees.

 

[NikolaeVarius]

I am glad you caught that. So much for A6 being superior, here is my score on a stock Galaxy S3 i747

So a stock S3 with a dual core S4 has no problem beating Apple's brand new SoC. I wish someone with a Nexus 10, Nexus 4, or DNA would post a run to go ahead and put A6 out of its misery.

My GS3 wins.

 

[ChronoReverse]

I am glad you caught that. So much for A6 being superior, here is my score on a stock Galaxy S3 i747

So a stock S3 with a dual core S4 has no problem beating Apple's brand new SoC. I wish someone with a Nexus 10, Nexus 4, or DNA would post a run to go ahead and put A6 out of its misery.

Even the native Linpack isn't close to what the limits of what the CPU's can do. Since the native Linpacks for iOS and Android are still compiled differently, the comparison can only go so far. I only brought up StabilityTest because the Dalvik Linpack put Android in a particularly bad light that a lot of folks have been jumping on.

As another point of comparison, RGBenchMM (https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.codedivine.rgbench&hl=en) is a more consistent test for Android and still doesn't reach the theoretical limits of the CPU despite a score of over 4x higher than even the native Linpack.

 

[Zink]

I am glad you caught that. So much for A6 being superior, here is my score on a stock Galaxy S3 i747

So a stock S3 with a dual core S4 has no problem beating Apple's brand new SoC. I wish someone with a Nexus 10, Nexus 4, or DNA would post a run to go ahead and put A6 out of its misery.

Every time I run a Linpack bench on my Nexus 4 it gives me a different value. I see 600 - 1050 in the app from this thread. The validity of patents can't be decided through benchmarks though. It seems to me that we can't really fault the legal groups at these companies for trying to stop others from violating their legal rights. It's the patent system and the fanboy back and forth in the tech community that seem to be the only things wrong here.

 

[ChronoReverse]

@Zink

Perhaps you're running into the throttling issue that's been documented around the Internet? If you don't mind, could you run RGBenchMM? It's usually much more consistent (since it was created because Linpack was so inconsistent)

As a sidenote, I had estimated the n4 to get just over 1k MFLOPS in the native Linpack so your high value is probably the non-throttled result.

 

[Puddle Jumper]

Yeah, the high value sounds right based on the dual core S4's.

Even if linpack is not perfect we should still use it to compare to the iOS results to be as consistent as possible under the circumstances.