it's official, i'm a liberal now

[K1052]

You quit your jobs and sold your business to take a multi-year vacation and are now bitching about premiums? Cry me a river. Setting aside the fact that I think your expectations are unrealistic, this is something you should have looked into way before now

Repeat after me: There is no such thing as free healthcare. You are either going to pay for it through insurance premiums or increased taxes. You pay much less when employed because risk is distributed over a larger number of people and your employer kicks in as part of your benefits.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: K1052
You quit your jobs and sold your business to take a multi-year vacation and are now bitching about premiums? Cry me a river. Setting aside the fact that I think your expectations are unrealistic, this is something you should have looked into way before now

Repeat after me: There is no such thing as free healthcare. You are either going to pay for it through insurance premiums or increased taxes. You pay much less when employed because risk is distributed over a larger number of people and your employer kicks in as part of your benefits.

Reading comprehension eh?

They won't accept his money.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: zephyrprime
Just wait until you get old. It becomes even more expensive.

Unfortunately, I see so people actually trying to understand the problem with high health care costs and only focusing on high insurance costs. Insurance just passes the buck and although they have a lot of overhead, they are not the fundamental reason for high health care costs.

You don't even have to be very old, just have some pre-existing conditions.

I disagree with you about insurance being the cause of high health care costs. If it wasn't for insurance, the doctors, hospitals, drug companies wouldn't be able to get away with charging such exhorbinatnt prices. Except for emergencies, people would shop around. When you have health insurance you really don't care what it costs.

If health insurance were banned tommorrow I think things would change very fast. It wouldn't take much of an illness to put most people into bankruptcy at todays's prices.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: Specop 007

Originally posted by: Ryan
What of the millions who cannot afford the best doctor - should they receive lesser treatment because they cannot afford it? Why should you receive better cancer treatment/preventative healthcare than an individual who can't afford it?

The economics of capitalism need not apply when we are dealing with the lives of people.

Your damn right they apply! Moreso with health care.
If you set limits you set quality. If the poor downtrodden lessers cant afford it, well tough for them. Know why i feel that way? Because the thought of me having to pay their healthcare AND me getting substandard healthcare as well is a damn hard pill to swallow.

If they want better healthcare they can get off their ass and get a job and pay for healthcare like the rest of us who want healthcare. Its not MY job to take care of you. Your a big boy now, you dont wear diapers. YOU need to be responsible for YOUR life. Your life is not my respnsiblity nor my concern.

I think you suffer from the misconception that the more something costs, the better it is. If we had twice as many doctors in this country, their prices would go down and the quality of health care would go up.

 

[tw1164]

Did you look into your COBRA options w/ your former employer when you left the company?

 

[Aj1966]

now i just see what i think should be "owed" to us. I hate to use that word, but i think it fair.

So, I owe YOU? For what? Who is responsible for employment? What about retirement? Who is responsible for poor planning?

Then, you proceed to tour the US on a trip, when you have no funds or insurance. And I am to pay for your poor decision making?

What of the millions who cannot afford the best doctor - should they receive lesser treatment because they cannot afford it? Why should you receive better cancer treatment/preventative healthcare than an individual who can't afford it?

The economics of capitalism need not apply when we are dealing with the lives of people.

So, why not throw ALL economics/reasoning out the window, because everything that happens in life is a part of "the lives of people"? Once again, you're asking for free handouts and don't believe that people can afford better should be allowed to have better.

Pardon me, but if I have to wait months on end for low level surgery (i.e. Canada) if I can afford not to, I still should not be allowed to purchase better care? People who think like you end up trying to write laws such as these:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/healthcare/


It's official:

You have no grasp of reality, and magically want there to be funding for everything you need when you contribute nothing.

 

[Vich]

Originally posted by: Aj1966

now i just see what i think should be "owed" to us. I hate to use that word, but i think it fair.

So, I owe YOU? For what? Who is responsible for employment? What about retirement? Who is responsible for poor planning?

Then, you proceed to tour the US on a trip, when you have no funds or insurance. And I am to pay for your poor decision making?

What of the millions who cannot afford the best doctor - should they receive lesser treatment because they cannot afford it? Why should you receive better cancer treatment/preventative healthcare than an individual who can't afford it?

The economics of capitalism need not apply when we are dealing with the lives of people.

So, why not throw ALL economics/reasoning out the window, because everything that happens in life is a part of "the lives of people"? Once again, you're asking for free handouts and don't believe that people can afford better should be allowed to have better.

Pardon me, but if I have to wait months on end for low level surgery (i.e. Canada) if I can afford not to, I still should not be allowed to purchase better care? People who think like you end up trying to write laws such as these:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/healthcare/


It's official:

You have no grasp of reality, and magically want there to be funding for everything you need when you contribute nothing.

/thread and QFT

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: K1052
You quit your jobs and sold your business to take a multi-year vacation and are now bitching about premiums? Cry me a river. Setting aside the fact that I think your expectations are unrealistic, this is something you should have looked into way before now

Repeat after me: There is no such thing as free healthcare. You are either going to pay for it through insurance premiums or increased taxes. You pay much less when employed because risk is distributed over a larger number of people and your employer kicks in as part of your benefits.

Reading comprehension eh?

They won't accept his money.

There is more than one insurance company. When looking for auto insurance do you just walk into one and when they quote you a high rate or decline to cover you do you piss and moan about how unfair the world is or try other companies? Wait...wtf am I thinking? Look who I'm asking.

This is something he should have looked into well befor actually dropping his plan.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: K1052
You quit your jobs and sold your business to take a multi-year vacation and are now bitching about premiums? Cry me a river. Setting aside the fact that I think your expectations are unrealistic, this is something you should have looked into way before now

Repeat after me: There is no such thing as free healthcare. You are either going to pay for it through insurance premiums or increased taxes. You pay much less when employed because risk is distributed over a larger number of people and your employer kicks in as part of your benefits.

Reading comprehension eh?

They won't accept his money.

There is more than one insurance company. When looking for auto insurance do you just walk into one and when they quote you a high rate or decline to cover you do you piss and moan about how unfair the world is or try other companies? Wait...wtf am I thinking? Look who I'm asking.

This is something he should have looked into well before actually dropping his plan.

This is why the industry should be done away with. Thank you

 

[slash196]

It's shocking how quickly conservatives will change their tune as soon as the shoe is on the other foot. This is what makes me dismiss it as an ideology; it seems predicated on personal success, rather than an overall concern for the population at large. No matter how rich I get I will always be liberal (that is, until the definition of liberal moves even FARTHER to the left, as it historically does).

 

[eleison]

Originally posted by: slash196
It's shocking how quickly conservatives will change their tune as soon as the shoe is on the other foot. This is what makes me dismiss it as an ideology; it seems predicated on personal success, rather than an overall concern for the population at large. No matter how rich I get I will always be liberal (that is, until the definition of liberal moves even FARTHER to the left, as it historically does).

A true conservative would never ask for a handout. Doubt if he really was a conservative.

I resigned my job a few months ago... One of the things that I braced myself for was the fact I may not have insurance... I prepared for the situation.

Health care needs to be cheaper. It can be done by adding more doctors/nurses/etc to the field by increasing the number of medical schools, etc.... not by artificial market manipulation.

-Eleison

ps. starting new job next week, hooray for me

 

[Fern]

There seem to be some very confusing thinking here........

Firstly, can you please explain this?

we were told that my wife could not get covered under insurance unless she joined a ship, which was well over 500 bucks a month just for her

What is joining a "ship"? Does it cost $500 a month to "join a ship"?

And:

what i always gave year to year in taxes i want back.

What do federal & taxes income taxes have to do with an insurance company? I don't see any relationship between the two concepts. Of course, if we get government provided HC, taxes will go up.

So basically, you are miffed that they don't want you (your wife really) as a customer, and want the government to take away their right to choose so you can get your way????

If you are poor you are already covered under medicare/medicaid. See if you qualify. But seems you prolly have plenty of money, so don't whine about not getting subsidized (i.e., somebody else pays) health insurance.

You can always just "self insure" I.e., put away in a seperate bank account what you think your premimums should cost. Draw on that when you have medical expenses.

Yes, you are a liberal.

Fern

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: Fern
There seem to be some very confusing thinking here........

Firstly, can you please explain this?

we were told that my wife could not get covered under insurance unless she joined a ship, which was well over 500 bucks a month just for her

What is joining a "ship"? Does it cost $500 a month to "join a ship"?

And:

what i always gave year to year in taxes i want back.

What do federal & taxes income taxes have to do with an insurance company? I don't see any relationship between the two concepts. Of course, if we get government provided HC, taxes will go up.

So basically, you are miffed that they don't want you (your wife really) as a customer, and want the government to take away their right to choose so you can get your way????

If you are poor you are already covered under medicare/medicaid. See if you qualify. But seems you prolly have plenty of money, so don't whine about not getting subsidized (i.e., somebody else pays) health insurance.

You can always just "self insure" I.e., put away in a seperate bank account what you think your premimums should cost. Draw on that when you have medical expenses.

Yes, you are a liberal.

Fern

It's time for me to head for the farm, deer season opens tomorrow, but I had to point out something.

Yes, the people who have either never made enough or spent every red cent they make have very little or nothing to lose if a sickness, injury bankrupts them. It't the people who have worked hard and tried to save/invest for the future. All of a sudden, for whatever reason, they find themselves without insurance and the price is so high they can't afford it. They are now at risk for everything they have, things they got by denieing themselves so they could have a half-ass comfortable retirement. If it were you in that situation I'll bet you would be complaining too.

LMAO, elison says a true conservative would never ask for a handout. That's funny. Every conservative I know (and I know plenty) have their hands in the goverment's piggybank just as deep as they can get them. The only thing they are worried about is they percieve this will cost them money. My god people, wake up. Double digit inflation in health care costs for the last 25 or 30 years is costing you an unbelievable amount of money, you just don't realize it, but you will if you ever lose your insurance.

So go ahead and set that money aside. If you get deathly sick then you can fork it and everything else you have over to the hospitals/doctors.

 

[Specop 007]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

I think you suffer from the misconception that the more something costs, the better it is. If we had twice as many doctors in this country, their prices would go down and the quality of health care would go up.

In regards to medical coverage, there is alot of truth to you get what you pay for. The reason being, ebcause the very best in the field can get away with charging a ridiculous price. I assure you, if someone is charging top notch prices and not giving top notch service they wont be in business long.

And you silly idea of fixing it by having twice as many docotrs shows just how out of touch you really are with reality. I can only assume your a liberal.

 

[Infohawk]

The OP strikes me as a typical American that's been voting Republican since Reagan. They just don't care until something happens to them. Or put another way, they don't seem to comprehend that what happens to others can happen to you.

This mentality made me care less about the successes of the Republicans. Why? Because it's interesting to see people live in the mess they helped create. A common misconception is that getting rid of social services will only impact Democrats. Plenty of Democrats are able to take care of themselves. A lot of the people that suffer from Republican policies are the same people that voted Republican. It's hard for me to feel bad about that.

Originally posted by: eleison
Health care needs to be cheaper. It can be done by adding more doctors/nurses/etc to the field by increasing the number of medical schools, etc.... not by artificial market manipulation.
-Eleison

Bingo. It should also be noted that doctors (and lawyers, and cpas..) create artificial limits into their respective professions to drive up their income. We should not let professions regulate themselves.

PS, if there are problems with the insurance industry, the wrong response is to create more regulation. The right response is to let lawyers sue the crap out of them based on laws that already exist in most states. That scares the insurance industries into behaving according to the laws. But of course the OP probably is/was the kind of person that thinks litigation is way out of control in America and that companies should not have to pay punitive damges...

 

[Vic]

The OP doesn't sound very liberal to me. He sounds like a member of the privileged class who, upon voluntarily quitting jobs and cashing out a business to take an extended vacation, is upset that he can't fleece the public any further. Naturally, Dave & Circle Jerk, Inc. start dancing along with a Rich Republican when he starts blowing one of their tunes, even if it's just in his own selfish interests.

 

[Atheus]

Originally posted by: Specop 007
Personally, I like our system. I've NEVER EVER waited more then a week for any procedure. I've always had the option for a second opinion. I've always had the option to choose my specialist. None of these 6 month waiting lists to see a guy with a so-so record.

There are lots of stories about this, but in reality it's rare to wait anything like that long. If there was something wrong with me I could walk to the A&E down the road and get seen in minutes or at most a couple of hours. If it's rare and expensive procedure then yea, there might be a wait, but who cares? It's fvcking free...

If you don't like it, you can, of course, still go private.

Originally posted by: Specop 007
If the poor downtrodden lessers cant afford it, well tough for them. Know why i feel that way? Because the thought of me having to pay their healthcare AND me getting substandard healthcare as well is a damn hard pill to swallow.

If they want better healthcare they can get off their ass and get a job and pay for healthcare like the rest of us who want healthcare. Its not MY job to take care of you. Your a big boy now, you dont wear diapers. YOU need to be responsible for YOUR life. Your life is not my respnsiblity nor my concern.

I hope you are aware that people with low paying jobs probably work harder than you. The lowest payed job I have ever had (laborer on a construction site) was also by far the hardest - way harder than computer programming for which I am paid handsomely.

People who do jobs like that for their entire lives are not lazy or wussy - they are hard as nails. They are just not as educated/intelligent/advantaged/lucky as the elite classes. I once knew a man who had laid blocks for 50 years... 50 years. Should society not help to fix his ruined back, after all he has done?


BTW - what's all this about liberalism? Public health is socialism.

 

[ScottMac]

I believe if a law was passed reducing the possible liabilities involved in health care, you would see a significant drop in medical costs.

Many doctors, and certainly most, if not all, surgeons pay more in malpractice insurance than two or three average people make in a year.

Certainly there are medical accidents, certainly there are occasional legitimate malpractice (neglegence / willful misconduct) they should be dealt with and all of the patient's associated costs shold be covered and something for the mental anguish / pain & suffereing etc ... but someone getting jillions of dollars because the wrong mole was removed is beyond reasonable.

As a possible example, in the general aviation industry, Cessna gave up making their smaller GA aircraft for almost two decades because of the cost of lawsuits for accidents they had absolutely no control or no real part of. Right or wrong, defense costs big bucks while the plaintiff's attorney is working on contingency.

Once a law was passed limiting liability for (ten years?, twenty years? I forget) Cessna began manufacturing their smaller aircraft again, and they're doing well with it. There is still a major chunk o' money built into the plane to cover liability ... something like 30%, but it does reduce their costs down the road from people looking for thier lotto lawsuit.

I'm of the opinion that most of the high cost of healthcare can be blamed on lawyers and the legal system more than the doctors, hospitals, and insurance companies (though I'm no big fan of insurance compainies either).

FWIW

 

[Infohawk]

Originally posted by: ScottMac
I'm of the opinion that most of the high cost of healthcare can be blamed on lawyers and the legal system more than the doctors, hospitals, and insurance companies (though I'm no big fan of insurance compainies either).

FWIW

Common misconception. Congressional Budget Office Report

 

[senseamp]

[GOP]You may not be able to affort the healthcare for your family, but look on the bright side. That healthcare you can't afford is the best in the world [/GOP]

 

[JD50]

So let me get this straight. You are saying that you were conservative when you had a job and provided for yourself and your family, but when you want to quit your job and leech off other tax payers then you are a liberal? Makes perfect sense to me.

 

[senseamp]

My question is, didn't you have coverage at your old job, and could you not have extended it for 18 months with Cobra?

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: senseamp
My question is, didn't you have coverage at your old job, and could you not have extended it for 18 months with Cobra?

Or maybe, he could have not been a dumba$$ and quit his job, then whine about me (tax payers) not paying for him to take an extended vacation.

Good question though, why didn't you do the whole cobra thing?

 

[senseamp]

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: senseamp
My question is, didn't you have coverage at your old job, and could you not have extended it for 18 months with Cobra?

Or maybe, he could have not been a dumba$$ and quit his job, then whine about me (tax payers) not paying for him to take an extended vacation.

Good question though, why didn't you do the whole cobra thing?

Well, I don't see anything wrong with quitting your job for a time, but definitely should have thought of health insurance, Cobra or otherwise before leaving.
Maybe get a job now, and then do the hiking thing a few years later once you get that cobra coverage.

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: senseamp
My question is, didn't you have coverage at your old job, and could you not have extended it for 18 months with Cobra?

Or maybe, he could have not been a dumba$$ and quit his job, then whine about me (tax payers) not paying for him to take an extended vacation.

Good question though, why didn't you do the whole cobra thing?

Well, I don't see anything wrong with quitting your job for a time, but definitely should have thought of health insurance, Cobra or otherwise before leaving.
Maybe get a job now, and then do the hiking thing a few years later once you get that cobra coverage.

Yea, thats my point. Why would someone willingly quit their job, then complain about the tax payer not taking care of him, its absurd.