It's Official: China will become the world's largest economy tomorrow.

Mondozei

Golden Member
Jul 7, 2013
1,043
41
86
April 30th is the release date of the 2011 ICP series. It is the largest such exercise conducted by the World Bank, which is responsible for it, ever made.

So what is the ICP series? It stands for International Comparison Program. You can read more here.

Why is this relevant? Because the ICP series is the basis for the PPP, or power purchasing parity, which all major economic organizations use to compare countries.

The last ICP series was done in 2005. It was seriously flawed. You can read more here: http://blogs.worldbank.org/developmenttalk/end-long-era

The new series is going to increase China's GDP by a significant amount. Nobody quite knows for certain, but I pinged Branko on Twitter and asked him for his opinion. His estimate was slightly lower than Maddison and slightly higher than Penn, so around 30% or so.

But even if it was "only" 20%, it would still be the largest economy in the world. Of course, China has been the world's largest economy in the world for some time now, but it simply becomes official.

After over a century on the throne, America is no longer #1.
And even more than that, China's per-capita GDP is also going to be substantially higher, hitting a PPP-adjusted 15,000 dollars or so per person this year and over 20,000 when the decade is over. And for the Eastern Coast, it's already at Western European levels.

China's military budget, when adjusted for PPP, is about 35% of America's, but it is growing over 10% per year while America will shrink its budget to the lowest post-WWII, so within no more than 7-8 years, China will have a budget at parity with the U.S. too.

In many ways this is just a return to the old way of the world, which China dominated economically for many centuries. And it will also, likely, reduce America's ability to intervene on an ad hoc basis in the world, especially in the Middle East which is already China's #1 source for oil. No more Iraq adventures. So it might not be a terrible thing, after all, at least initially. Over a decade or two, China will become to America as America is to Russia today.

Only India has the capacity to seriously challenge China this century, but that is still decades away.
 

Kadarin

Lifer
Nov 23, 2001
44,296
16
81
Who is "Branko"? Also, I LOL at the idea of India challenging China in any capacity.
 

Newell Steamer

Diamond Member
Jan 27, 2014
6,894
8
0
America is capitalist, and against communism.

So, its corporations give most of it's manufacturing to China - a communist country - which has now strenthened China,.. all for profits, in the name of capitalism.

Yup - it all checks out.

Carry on!
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
39,396
20,095
146
ron-burgundy-that-escalated-quickly.jpg
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
87,586
54,505
136
This is a very misleading way to compare the relative power of two economies. PPP is very useful for measuring the relative standard of living and production INTERNAL to each economy. International comparisons necessarily involve internationally traded goods, relative financial power, etc, etc, for which PPP is not at all well suited.

For example, even if $3,000 in China buys you the same thing in China as $10,000 buys you in America, if you're American and you're bidding against a Chinese person for a good you can offer $5,000 for that good. The Chinese person is long busted out of that trade and you've still got $5,000 left to buy something else with.

So while PPP is useful for the size of the economy, I would be very wary to equate PPP size with 'economic dominance'. They are two very different things.
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
39,396
20,095
146
America is capitalist, and against communism.

So, its corporations give most of it's manufacturing to China - a communist country - which has now strenthened China,.. all for profits, in the name of capitalism.

Yup - it all checks out.

Carry on!

And to think, a mere 50 years ago we were rolling around SouthEast Asia fighting the red plague at every turn.
 

JTsyo

Lifer
Nov 18, 2007
12,013
1,125
126
America is capitalist, and against communism.

So, its corporations give most of it's manufacturing to China - a communist country - which has now strenthened China,.. all for profits, in the name of capitalism.

Yup - it all checks out.

Carry on!

China's economy hasn't been communist for years now. China is currently growing like the US did through the industrial revolution. Eventually they will have to enact similar environmental laws that Western countries have. Then they won't be able to afford to manufacture at the current prices and the corporations will move to SE Asia or Africa.
 

Newell Steamer

Diamond Member
Jan 27, 2014
6,894
8
0
And to think, a mere 50 years ago we were rolling around SouthEast Asia fighting the red plague at every turn.

Now, we owe it a shit load of money.

And, investors are making a killing over it's artificial GDP "growth" (empty cities being built, etc.).
 

smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
27,024
79
86
At least you knew they were high quality.

Unless it was before they were good. The early Japanese electronics were complete shit, same as the cars.

Korea had the same thing, although the were a lot quicker in getting quality products.


And don't worry, 'Made in China' will soon be replaced by some other non-industrialized nation. I imagine 'Made in Vietnam' will likely be the next one. As China gets more industrialized, the labor costs will rise, and we will move our plants to some other poor, Asian nation.
 

Zaap

Diamond Member
Jun 12, 2008
7,162
424
126
Great. Go sneak into their country and demand your "guaranteed income."

Results would be high comedy.
 

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
25,643
11,993
136
Unless it was before they were good. The early Japanese electronics were complete shit, same as the cars.

Korea had the same thing, although the were a lot quicker in getting quality products.


And don't worry, 'Made in China' will soon be replaced by some other non-industrialized nation. I imagine 'Made in Vietnam' will likely be the next one. As China gets more industrialized, the labor costs will rise, and we will move our plants to some other poor, Asian nation.

I guess bottom will be Somallia.
 

dawheat

Diamond Member
Sep 14, 2000
3,132
93
91
This is a very misleading way to compare the relative power of two economies. PPP is very useful for measuring the relative standard of living and production INTERNAL to each economy. International comparisons necessarily involve internationally traded goods, relative financial power, etc, etc, for which PPP is not at all well suited.

For example, even if $3,000 in China buys you the same thing in China as $10,000 buys you in America, if you're American and you're bidding against a Chinese person for a good you can offer $5,000 for that good. The Chinese person is long busted out of that trade and you've still got $5,000 left to buy something else with.

So while PPP is useful for the size of the economy, I would be very wary to equate PPP size with 'economic dominance'. They are two very different things.

Yeah I don't quite get this PPP concept and how it applies across countries. If countries are competing to buy the same goods/resources then only absolute pricing matters, not relative.

Quote from the article:
-----
The easiest way to explain it is to say that PPPs try to account for each good and service using the same price for it around the world, so that a mobile phone, a kilo of rice and a haircut would each be valued the same in China as in the United States.
----

China's military budget, when adjusted for PPP, is about 35% of America's, but it is growing over 10% per year while America will shrink its budget to the lowest post-WWII, so within no more than 7-8 years, China will have a budget at parity with the U.S. too.

Why would it make sense to adjust military budget for PPP? Will it make missiles more accurate? Will it make planes more stealthy? Absolute terms are the only things that matter.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
At some point, I'm sure it will. Everyone wants cheap goods.
Well, yeah, but preferably cheap goods that don't blow up in the warehouse, from a nation to which your executives can travel with some reasonable expectation of not being kidnapped or murdered.
 

OCGuy

Lifer
Jul 12, 2000
27,224
37
91
Uh no, not yet.

Sweet link/source OP. Though what is worse is that people responded without realizing you didn't substantiate your sensationalist claim.
 
Last edited:

DucatiMonster696

Diamond Member
Aug 13, 2009
4,269
1
71
Unless it was before they were good. The early Japanese electronics were complete shit, same as the cars.

Korea had the same thing, although the were a lot quicker in getting quality products.


And don't worry, 'Made in China' will soon be replaced by some other non-industrialized nation. I imagine 'Made in Vietnam' will likely be the next one. As China gets more industrialized, the labor costs will rise, and we will move our plants to some other poor, Asian nation.

True that may occur for some manufacturing jobs but another recent trend I've read that is occurring is that some jobs are being brought back however with very high degrees of automation already built into them which were not there when they were originally outsourced. This automation process then makes it profitable again to have these manufacturing plants return to the US with minimal labor costs.

Edit: Minimal labor costs being in many cases significantly less employees to run a manufacturing plant but those few you have on board are probably well paid employees with many having the technical skills to troubleshoot and/or repair any break down of the computer and robot controlled manufacturing process.
 
Last edited:

peonyu

Platinum Member
Mar 12, 2003
2,038
23
81
Let me guess, it's all Obama's fault.

Decisions made in the 1950s-1960s are what have made this country into what it is today, a nation with a 3rd world "urban" core in our largest cities and a ever increasing percent of the population that relies on handouts. If we take away the handouts we would probably have 10x higher crime and poverty, and the boat [the country] would either sink from it or break up. Handouts are just prolonging the inevitable and thats this country becoming firmly third world.


Btw both Republicans and Democrats sold this country out, both parties are more or less the same anyways when it comes to actual actions [they like to talk the talk though as they are actually different, LOLs right there]. Eisenhower was the last President we had who actually thought long term about what to do for the country, and he was right about the military complex taking over, which it did do.
 
Last edited: