"It's not the dogs' fault, it's the owners'."

Eug

Lifer
Mar 11, 2000
24,064
1,708
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Rant:

Arrggh. I'm sick of all the dog lovers who claim all dogs, if properly trained, will make great human companions and will be friendly to all, and then want every park around their house to be leash free.

That's simply bullcrap. Some dogs are just inherently ill-natured. Many can be trained to be friendly to humans, but just like humans, there are asshole dogs just like there are asshole humans, regardless of the upbringing. It's not nature vs. nurture. It's nature AND nurture.

Furthermore, it's rare to have dog owners that are actually experienced dog trainers, obviously. 98% of dog owners don't have a clue what they're doing really. So, even if a borderline dog could be trained well, most dog owners won't train them as well.

"It's not the dogs' fault, it's the owners'."

So why do I dislike that above statement? Because it gets used so much by dog owners... about other dog owners but never themselves. It seems so common that people believe their beloved pet will never harm anyone. They think they've trained their dog well, and any reports of the species of their dog biting someone or another dog were due to somebody else not training their dog well.

Sorry people, you have to look at this objectively. A dog is a dog. A living animal. There are hundreds of millions of them living in this world. Not every dog is perfect, and even with good training not every dog is going to behave well. As a dog owner, you cannot assume you have a perfect dog, and you cannot assume you are a perfect owner. You are perfectly willing to accept that people can be criminals even with a good childhood upbringing, then you should be willing to accept that dogs can bite even with good training.

P.S. I like dogs, at least the friendly ones. However, I don't like yappy ankle nippers (regardless of how cute the owners think they are), nor do I like ferocious big dogs.
 

Texashiker

Lifer
Dec 18, 2010
18,811
198
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From time to time you see news on the local news channels about a pitbull that attacked and killed someone. Usually its the first time the dog ever acted in such a way.

The local DA filed criminal charges against a lady whos pitbull attacked another lady. I bet the dog was raised in a loving family and never attacked anyone, until it freaked out one day.

In another attack close to where I live, the pitbull freaked out during a birthday party and started attacking the kids. The dad had to get a baseball bat and beat the dog in the head until it stopped attacking the kids.
 

DesiPower

Lifer
Nov 22, 2008
15,299
740
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Its the the owners fault for bringing those stupid freaking animals into human habitat with no respect whatsoever for the rest of humanity. Its is such a nuisance, some of them keep barking whenever they see any other humans expect their owners, for example every time I go to my backyard, my neighbors dog keeps barking, its a small stupid dog, all it will take is a good solid kick to shut him up for good. Some of them will run up to you and start sniffing and licking you... WTF...
Others keep barking all night long, making it difficult to sleep. And then there are the ones that bite and kill people and children.

Its the selfish people how need these animals for their own twisted pleasure and don't care about other people. Its not DOG's fault, its the 100% owners'
 
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JulesMaximus

No Lifer
Jul 3, 2003
74,572
971
126
I used to walk my dog around our neighborhood and encountered this dumb bitch who used to walk her dog off a leash. Fucking thing would run up to my dog, fur standing up, growling and acting aggressive and this was a husky of some sort. She said, "oh, he's harmless." Yeah, maybe to you he's harmless...fucking retarded dog owners suck. I really told her off one day after this had happened a couple times...never saw her again.
 
Mar 11, 2004
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Your argument seems contradictory, its not the owner's fault that "98% of dog owners don't have a clue what they're doing really"?
 

Eug

Lifer
Mar 11, 2000
24,064
1,708
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Your argument seems contradictory, its not the owner's fault that "98% of dog owners don't have a clue what they're doing really"?
It's true is the owners' fault to a large extent if they can't control their dog.

What I hate is dog owners saying this, but only about other dog owners, and don't think that the same statement ever applies to themselves.

But the other aspect to this is even if they did train their dog well, there is no guarantee it will behave well in all circumstances.
 
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DougK62

Diamond Member
Mar 28, 2001
8,035
6
81
I love dogs and am a big advocate of getting rid of all breed-specific legislation, but you make a fair rant. I would never walk my dog unleashed around other people, and wouldn't leave him alone with people or animals that he didn't know. Most people raise some very neurotic dogs.
 
Mar 11, 2004
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It's true is the owners' fault to a large extent if they can't control their dog.

What I hate is dog owners saying this, but only about other dog owners, and don't think that the same statement ever applies to themselves.

But the other aspect to this is even if they did train their dog well, there is no guarantee it will behave well in all circumstances.

I agree with your argument (and can understand that you're rant is hyperbole as most are fine, but there's some that act like they're the best owners and that all pets are well mannered, etc).

The thing is, a lot of people with pets have no interest in being good owners, so I agree with the people saying its the owner's fault. I've met way too many that take pride in being shitty pet owners.
 

KaOTiK

Lifer
Feb 5, 2001
10,877
8
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I love dogs, but too many people have dogs (or pets in general) that should not have them.

I spent a lot of time training my dog and I am very proud of it. I let my dog loose in the front yard while I am doing other stuff in the front and she will not cross the property line no matter what unless I say it is ok. She has seen cats in the neighbors yard and went barreling right towards them and stop right on the property line barking like crazy, and she hates cats with such a passion. She listens to my commands and comes right to me.

All my other neighbors are always in awe that my dog listens and is able to be off the leash. Soon as one of their dogs gets out the door you see their whole family running down the street chasing the dog, it is like a prison break for the dog lol.

When I walk my dog there is one house where they always let their dog out in the front with no leash but the dog isn't trained at all and just runs across the street. Big rottweiler and they always start screaming at the dog and are like he's ok. Fucking idiots, can't control your dog put it on a leash. I stopped walking that way after a few times of me telling them they need to put their dog on a leash, whenever a random dog comes running towards me the first thing I do is pick mine up and if there is a fenced in yard or pickup truck i can put her into I will till I get rid of the other dog.

There are definitely asshole dogs out there regardless of training I'm sure. But most are due to bad owners. Most people should not be permitted to have a pet period. If you don't want to put the time and effort in to doing some basic training with the animal you forfeit your right to own one far as I'm concerned.
 
Mar 11, 2004
23,444
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I love dogs, but too many people have dogs (or pets in general) that should not have them.

I spent a lot of time training my dog and I am very proud of it. I let my dog loose in the front yard while I am doing other stuff in the front and she will not cross the property line no matter what unless I say it is ok. She has seen cats in the neighbors yard and went barreling right towards them and stop right on the property line barking like crazy, and she hates cats with such a passion. She listens to my commands and comes right to me.

All my other neighbors are always in awe that my dog listens and is able to be off the leash. Soon as one of their dogs gets out the door you see their whole family running down the street chasing the dog, it is like a prison break for the dog lol.

When I walk my dog there is one house where they always let their dog out in the front with no leash but the dog isn't trained at all and just runs across the street. Big rottweiler and they always start screaming at the dog and are like he's ok. Fucking idiots, can't control your dog put it on a leash. I stopped walking that way after a few times of me telling them they need to put their dog on a leash, whenever a random dog comes running towards me the first thing I do is pick mine up and if there is a fenced in yard or pickup truck i can put her into I will till I get rid of the other dog.

There are definitely asshole dogs out there regardless of training I'm sure. But most are due to bad owners. Most people should not be permitted to have a pet period. If you don't want to put the time and effort in to doing some basic training with the animal you forfeit your right to own one far as I'm concerned.

:thumbsup:
 

destrekor

Lifer
Nov 18, 2005
28,799
359
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I am one of those owners will actively tries to keep improving my dog's behavior and training, trying to keep teaching her as she ages and learns with enough repetition.
But she has her faults.

As a Lab/Aussie Shepherd mix, she's smart. Very smart. And like many smart humans, she is also stubborn. And manipulative. :D I see a lot of things in her consistent behavior, and I'm trying to make sure she'll forever be a dog that doesn't cause any problems for strangers that don't cause any problems for us.
But I do have that fear in the back of my mind that where she currently is at in her life right now, she has the potential to bite someone. She has nipped at a meter reader, and when I found out about that I was pissed but couldn't do much about that specific event at that time.
I watch her like a hawk when in public, and keep her on a short-leash and demand she stay at my heel when I'm out with her. She's fairly good with that, and is actually a terrific running companion and would rather stay with me than test the limits of the leash (and my patience). She'd actually rather be running ahead of me, probably because she'd rather be running faster than this average-speed human.

I'm not a perfect dog handler, but I aspire to continue improving my own abilities, and always try to follow the advice of recognized expert dog handlers. Our dog is very emotive and is strongly attached, so I try to moderate certain methods and find some tricks more effective with her than others. She learns well and very fast once we can sneak past her wall of stubbornness.

She's very loyal and takes great pride in being nasty for defense, it seems, so it's almost more of an effort to dial her down a few notches. As an Aussie Shepherd, she strongly desires to show us she can defend our property. Problem is, she has trouble accepting the smaller personal bubbles we humans have. She has a desire for a very large bubble, seemingly everything she can see she wants to be free of any other creature.
 

Eug

Lifer
Mar 11, 2000
24,064
1,708
126
When I walk my dog there is one house where they always let their dog out in the front with no leash but the dog isn't trained at all and just runs across the street. Big rottweiler and they always start screaming at the dog and are like he's ok. Fucking idiots, can't control your dog put it on a leash. I stopped walking that way after a few times of me telling them they need to put their dog on a leash, whenever a random dog comes running towards me the first thing I do is pick mine up and if there is a fenced in yard or pickup truck i can put her into I will till I get rid of the other dog.
Interesting that you pick the dog up.

I see you doing this for two main possible reasons:

1) You are concerned the other dog will attack your dog.
2) You are concerned you dog will protect itself (or its owner) and attack the other dog if provoked.

Either way, it's not gonna be a good outcome.


You just need to project a calm, assertive energy.
I hope you were kidding...

That's my point... Even if you do, there's no guarantee the dog will respond well, around people or other animals s/he doesn't know.

People too often think the dog's behaviour around family - with the owners' calm, assertive energy - is representative of what the dog's behaviour will be around strangers.
 

Capt Caveman

Lifer
Jan 30, 2005
34,543
651
126
All dogs have their own unique personalities, like humans. It's the dog owner's responsibility to know if their dog's behavior could be an issue and do things to mitigate or correct the behavior.

So, yes. "It's not the dogs' fault, it's the owners'."
 

classy

Lifer
Oct 12, 1999
15,219
1
81
Its the the owners fault for bringing those stupid freaking animals into human habitat with no respect whatsoever for the rest of humanity. Its is such a nuisance, some of them keep barking whenever they see any other humans expect their owners, for example every time I go to my backyard, my neighbors dog keeps barking, its a small stupid dog, all it will take is a good solid kick to shut him up for good. Some of them will run up to you and start sniffing and licking you... WTF...
Others keep barking all night long, making it difficult to sleep. And then there are the ones that bite and kill people and children.

Its the selfish people how need these animals for their own twisted pleasure and don't care about other people. Its not DOG's fault, its the 100% owners'

Keep on talking trash....Bet you don't say it locked in the back yard to big boy below ;)

pitbull.jpg
 

Codewiz

Diamond Member
Jan 23, 2002
5,758
0
76
Sorry, everything that a dog does is the owners fault. If you have an asshole dog then it is your responsible to remove the dog's ability to be an asshole.

Simple as that.
 

Apple Of Sodom

Golden Member
Oct 7, 2007
1,808
0
0
Dogs only know what you teach them....

That is bullshit. Dogs are wild animals with instincts and little ability to reason. We TRAIN dogs to be acceptable in public. We train them NOT to bark and bite. Otherwise they act like wild animals, which is something we did not teach them.

Do bears only know what you teach them? Do mountain lions only know what they have been taught?

I don't like animals. I don't think most people are fit to have animals. Usually the ones that want the animals the most are the ones who are least fit to have them.
 

DesiPower

Lifer
Nov 22, 2008
15,299
740
126
Keep on talking trash....Bet you don't say it locked in the back yard to big boy below ;)

pitbull.jpg

yeah.. whatever.. I really hate it when people thing its OK to let their dogs bark, even on this thread some people mention it as if its no big deal...
Another issue is with these same people talking about "walking" their dogs, I am sure they have no problem with their animals pooping in other people's yards and public places even beaches... What gives them the right to mess up the places they don't won. A$$h0les, complete a$$h0les. They should be punished.
 

Apple Of Sodom

Golden Member
Oct 7, 2007
1,808
0
0
Sorry, everything that a dog does is the owners fault. If you have an asshole dog then it is your responsible to remove the dog's ability to be an asshole.

Simple as that.

I agree, since it is the owner that is bringing the dog around.

If I brought a bear into my neighborhood and allowed it to roam free and kill people, that is MY fault for not acknowledging that it is a fucking stupid animal. Same goes with dogs.

The problem with animals is that they do snap fairly easily and can cause a lot of damage in very little time.
 

DesiPower

Lifer
Nov 22, 2008
15,299
740
126
A quick search reveals a site stating 1,000 people per day are treated for dog bites.

The CDC puts the number at 4.5 million Americans each year bitten by a dog.

http://www.cdc.gov/HomeandRecreationalSafety/Dog-Bites/biteprevention.html
http://dogbitelaw.com/dog-bite-statistics/dog-bite-statistics.html
http://www.dogsbite.org/bite-statistics.htm

This is hardly an uncommon occurrence.

Just imagine how much money govt can make if we start fining these dimwits for each incident. If you don't pay up, you loose your dog who will then in euthanized after a week.