It's not just doctors to blame for high insurance costs...

[arcas]

UnitedHealth Group just reported its 17th consecutive quarter of double-digit profit growth, beating analysts expectations. Overall, UnitedHealth is predicting 22% growth for 2003.

Managed care companies are enjoying record profits despite surging underlying medical costs, as the companies hike premiums even more.

So instead of increasing premiums to match the rise in medical costs, they've taken it a step further and increased premiums to not only match their expenses, but to also return a handsome profit growth.

See the link here.


It's not just doctors and hospitals that are driving up the cost of insurance. It's Wall Street's insatiable demand for earnings growth.

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: arcas
UnitedHealth Group just reported its 17th consecutive quarter of double-digit profit growth, beating analysts expectations. Overall, UnitedHealth is predicting 22% growth for 2003.

Managed care companies are enjoying record profits despite surging underlying medical costs, as the companies hike premiums even more.

So instead of increasing premiums to match the rise in medical costs, they've taken it a step further and increased premiums to not only match their expenses, but to also return a handsome profit growth.

See the link here.


It's not just doctors and hospitals that are driving up the cost of insurance. It's Wall Street's insatiable demand for earnings growth.

The whole managed healthcare system is fvcked up. From the HMOs, to Wall Street, to the Lawyers.

 

[ATLien247]

As long as the health care industry is privatized, we will see increases.

If you were running a business, would you not want to make a profit?

The alternative is for government to step in. This could be a good thing and a bad thing.

 

[BDawg]

The problem is also people without insurrance using emergency rooms as their primary care.

 

[iamwiz82]

Originally posted by: ATLien247
As long as the health care industry is privatized, we will see increases.

If you were running a business, would you not want to make a profit?

The alternative is for government to step in. This could be a good thing and a bad thing.

the problem with letting the govt. control healthcare is that the premiums will continue to increase at the same rate but the industry will start losing money because of piss poor management and beauracracy.

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: iamwiz82

Originally posted by: ATLien247
As long as the health care industry is privatized, we will see increases.

If you were running a business, would you not want to make a profit?

The alternative is for government to step in. This could be a good thing and a bad thing.

the problem with letting the govt. control healthcare is that the premiums will continue to increase at the same rate but the industry will start losing money because of piss poor management and beauracracy.

Plus, where do you think the money comes from? <shock music> TAXES!

Let's not forget that government agencies are not held anywhere near as accountable as private companies. Dept of Education has lost millions of dollars...literally, they don't know where it went to...and continues to fail audit after audit with no reprecussions. Seriously, the accounting that goes on in government circles would put Enron and Arthur Anderson to shame.

 

[spyordie007]

Let's not forget that government agencies are not held anywhere near as accountable as private companies. Dept of Education has lost millions of dollars...literally, they don't know where it went to...and continues to fail audit after audit with no reprecussions. Seriously, the accounting that goes on in government circles would put Enron and Arthur Anderson to shame.

amen

 

[JellyBaby]

As long as the health care industry is privatized, we will see increases.

This is dead wrong. It's partly because of government's meddling in our health care that costs are so damn high now. The government told hospitals how they must operate (no pun intended), they enacted laws creating tons of red tape that increased costs for everyone, they allow lawyers to launch costly and damaging lawsuits nearly unchecked, they created many medical programs thus throwing "government money" into the mix encouraging greed and waste at several levels.

Now the system is so messed up and people like you are conditioned to believe the only answer lies with the same fools who got us into this mess!

 

[KK]

Originally posted by: BDawg
The problem is also people without insurrance using emergency rooms as their primary care.

Who would do something dumb like that?

KK

 

[arcas]

The problem is also people without insurrance using emergency rooms as their primary care.

I agree that leads to higher real health care costs for those of us who eventually foot their bill. But there is also an artificial cost being imposed: the desire for the insurance company to report profit growth to its investors. One proven way to do this is to increase your premiums at a faster rate than the rate at which you're giving money to hospitals and doctors.

When you hear health insurance companies tell the sad tale of ever-increasing health-care costs driving up premiums, keep this in mind.

 

[Fingers]

First things first, don't call me a woman hater after you read this because I'm not. I'm just quoting something I heard on the news while back that I agree with.

Women in general have caused insurance costs to go up simply because they are more prone to go to the doctor over something silly like a cold (My girlfirend especially!). This isn't to say that men don't do this too, but it is far more common for women to do this.

This can also lead to superviruses(sp? and I don't know why cnn called it this when it isn't viral) because people who arn't educated just know the word antibiotic and want some even for a cold which is viral. Doctors just go ahead and give them away like candy just to shut the people up which will lead to bacteria becoming immune to them and becoming increasingly harder to kill.


moral of the story, don't go to the doctor just because you can. Go because you need to.

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: Fingers

moral of the story, don't go to the doctor just because you can. Go because you need to.

That and another reason is all the "wonder drugs" (Viagra, Paxil, etx) that are advertised as fixing everything that is wrong with you. (My favorite is the one that advertised itself with a possible side effect of rectal bleeding:Q). I'm not saying that there aren't some people who will truly benefit from these drugs but you also get all these people getting their insurance to pay money for expensive drugs that don't need and only want because the people in the commercials were happy.

 

[Huz]

Health care is a business like any other. As long as there are incentives to make profits, profits will be made at the expense of patients. Doctors, insurance companies, HMO's, pharmaceutical co.'s, and any other agency in the gravy train will ride it as long as they can and as long as people aren't dying outright. That's sick but I do believe it. I'm seeing it right now first hand, but I won't get into that? I'm just so disgusted by America's health care system for so many reasons I don't even have enough room here to list them all.

Say someone has a chronic condition, or even a theoretically curable one?look at who the stakeholders are in this situation, do some rough math on "treatment" vs. curing them, and what do you get? A screwed patient.

This is one of our biggest challenges as a country, right up there with education.

 

[ReiAyanami]

But there is also an artificial cost being imposed: the desire for the insurance company to report profit growth to its investors.

reminds me of college tuition, except they raise it so the provost and dean can drive BMW and benz

 

[shiner]

Originally posted by: JellyBaby

As long as the health care industry is privatized, we will see increases.

This is dead wrong. It's partly because of government's meddling in our health care that costs are so damn high now. The government told hospitals how they must operate (no pun intended), they enacted laws creating tons of red tape that increased costs for everyone, they allow lawyers to launch costly and damaging lawsuits nearly unchecked, they created many medical programs thus throwing "government money" into the mix encouraging greed and waste at several levels.

Now the system is so messed up and people like you are conditioned to believe the only answer lies with the same fools who got us into this mess!

Preach on my brother....preach on!!! I've seen it from the inside since I work at a hospital and you could not be more correct.....

 

[XZeroII]

Originally posted by: Fingers
First things first, don't call me a woman hater after you read this because I'm not. I'm just quoting something I heard on the news while back that I agree with.

Women in general have caused insurance costs to go up simply because they are more prone to go to the doctor over something silly like a cold (My girlfirend especially!). This isn't to say that men don't do this too, but it is far more common for women to do this.

This can also lead to superviruses(sp? and I don't know why cnn called it this when it isn't viral) because people who arn't educated just know the word antibiotic and want some even for a cold which is viral. Doctors just go ahead and give them away like candy just to shut the people up which will lead to bacteria becoming immune to them and becoming increasingly harder to kill.


moral of the story, don't go to the doctor just because you can. Go because you need to.

I only go when I fear death if I don't. I don't go for Colds, Flu, or much else. Last time I went to the hospital was a couple years ago because of a kidney stone (which I thought I was gonna die from). Before that was for a car accident. I can't even remember before then.

EDIT:
BTW: I am a man and I am using this as an example that you don't have to go to the doctor or hospital every other day to remain healthy.

 

[BurnItDwn]

Another culprit is the drug companies. In general, mont of them spend far more on marketing than they do on research.

 

[ATLien247]

Originally posted by: JellyBaby

Now the system is so messed up and people like you are conditioned to believe the only answer lies with the same fools who got us into this mess!

People like me? You don't even know me...

Besides, it was just an observation. Neither you nor I have the answer, or one of us would be extremely wealthy.

I'm not going to argue for a socialized healthcare system, but it seems to work for some countries. Doesn't it?

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: ATLien247

I'm not going to argue for a socialized healthcare system, but it seems to work for some countries. Doesn't it?

Only through higher taxes and reduced military spending. How do you think Canada can afford socialized healthcare...they only have one tank!

 

[ATLien247]

Originally posted by: Queasy

Only through higher taxes and reduced military spending. How do you think Canada can afford socialized healthcare...they only have one tank!

And what about the UK?

 

[CJZ]

Medicare is the most cost-effective and low-overhead healthcare system in the U.S. Only 10% of healthcare dollars are spent on administrative costs. Private insurance spends anywhere from 15-30%.

 

[XZeroII]

Originally posted by: Queasy

Originally posted by: ATLien247

I'm not going to argue for a socialized healthcare system, but it seems to work for some countries. Doesn't it?

Only through higher taxes and reduced military spending. How do you think Canada can afford socialized healthcare...they only have one tank!

That stupid tank is always in the shop too, costing more money.

 

[SuperTool]

Americans are the cash cow for all these industries. We pay at least double for drugs than other countries, because those countries were smart enough to impose price caps, and left us holding the bag subsidizing them. I am not talking about Africa. I am talking about civilized countries like Japan and Germany, who could pay more for drugs, but don't. If the rest of the world sets price caps and we don't, we end up paying for the rest of the world.
Drug companies spend much more money on advertising than they do on R&D. They raise prices to pump up profits just because they can. The problem with our system is that people don't pay enough for drugs out of pocket. They pay through insurance, therefore, they don't care how much the drug costs. In the end of course they end up paying higher premiums, but when they pay higher premiums, they demand more expensive drugs, and it's a cycle of increasing cost.

1. I pay more for insurance, therefore I expect some bang for my buck so I'll demand high priced prescription drugs
2. Because I demand higher priced drugs, insurance premiums go up, goto 1.

That's why Claritin maker was fighting so hard to keep it a prescription drug. Because once it became over the counter and consumers had to pay out of pocket for it, the prices went down dramatically.

 

[JellyBaby]

Besides, it was just an observation. Neither you nor I have the answer, or one of us would be extremely wealthy.

I'm not going to argue for a socialized healthcare system, but it seems to work for some countries. Doesn't it?

Observations are fine but you seemed to promote government health programs. We're talking about America, not the rest of the world. In this country our federal government is allowed certain functions and you will not find among that list socialized heath care.

I want what we once had: complete freedom to determine my own health needs, competition to keep prices low and a direct pay system so third party insurance companies don't come between me and my doctor. All government should be allowed to do is ensure a free and safe marketplace for health care.

 

[ATLien247]

Originally posted by: JellyBaby
Observations are fine but you seemed to promote government health programs. We're talking about America, not the rest of the world. In this country our federal government is allowed certain functions and you will not find among that list socialized heath care.

I want what we once had: complete freedom to determine my own health needs, competition to keep prices low and a direct pay system so third party insurance companies don't come between me and my doctor. All government should be allowed to do is ensure a free and safe marketplace for health care.

I don't promote any government health programs. I do believe there's a place for Medicare, for those that can't afford health care otherwise.

What I would rather see is no more insurance. Pay for health services just like you would pay for any other service; for medication, just like any other commodity.

[edit]
I just re-read your post and realized that I agree with you. Fascinating.
[/edit]