Its good to be rich

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ponyo

Lifer
Feb 14, 2002
17,269
1,352
126
I guess 2 things - I hardly know people that invest regularly in real life (I can think of 3), and of those 3 - one retired years ago from day trading and he's only my age (mid 30's). He now only does a handful of trades per year to balance risk, fit his current plan and lives off the income his current sizes provide. The other 2 guys also day trade, but primarily swing trade overall.

Second thing would be is that I'm doing it for the learning, not for the money. I'll see whether I like it or not, but I know I want to do more investing so trying day trading has already taught me way more than I knew before. I also know there is way more that I don't know and I am prepared to give it years (at least right now I am ;) ).

I'm not using any money I cannot lose 100% and view it as paying for an education. I'm fine with discovering my limits, my ultimate goal is to learn something I can make money from, even if it's an alternate form of investing. If I end up good at it, then great - if not, I'm still certain I will learn things that I'll benefit from for the rest of my life.
By all means try. I would not be financially independent without the help of the market. I opened my account the day I turned 18 and been trading ever since.

You know 3 people, none of them day trade. Day trading means opening positions and closing and going to all cash before the end of the day. It's really hard to constantly win doing this. Like literally impossible.

You really think day trading success rate is less than 1%?
Yes.
 

dasherHampton

Golden Member
Jan 19, 2018
1,752
262
96
It's likely really low, but 1% does sound like a number to justify previous failures.
I don't remember ever having a negative month. Granted, the market was basically trending upwards the entire time I was doing it. I also sold options and held some stocks so I don't know if that classifies me as a true day trader.

But maybe I'M the Rain Man here.

My brother in law is a very successful day trader.
 

ponyo

Lifer
Feb 14, 2002
17,269
1,352
126
I don't remember ever having a negative month. Granted, the market was basically trending upwards the entire time I was doing it. I also sold options and held some stocks so I don't know if that classifies me as a true day trader.

But maybe I'M the Rain Man here.

My brother in law is a very successful day trader.
Yeah right. Are you trying to lie to yourself or to me?
 

Tweak155

Lifer
Sep 23, 2003
11,288
196
106
By all means try. I would not be financially independent without the help of the market. I opened my account the day I turned 18 and been trading ever since.

You know 3 people, none of them day trade. Day trading means opening positions and closing and going to all cash before the end of the day. It's really hard to constantly win doing this. Like literally impossible.


Yes.
You think because my friend retired using day trading, he wasn't a successful day trader? Interesting perspective.

All your tales of "doing it since 18" and "making and losing millions" highlights is that you didn't learn early enough to avoid greed and create good risk management strategies (of course, if you were in the high 10's of millions or $100m or more, I'll let losing millions slide ;) ).
 

ponyo

Lifer
Feb 14, 2002
17,269
1,352
126
You think because my friend retired using day trading, he wasn't a successful day trader? Interesting perspective.

All your tales of "doing it since 18" and "making and losing millions" highlights is that you didn't learn early enough to avoid greed and create good risk management strategies (of course, if you were in the high 10's of millions or $100m or more, I'll let losing millions slide ;) ).
Good luck!
 
Jun 19, 2004
24,055
1,491
126
I THINK the idea there is to be wealthy enough you can hire a dude to take care of shit for you.
Actually I've reconsidered, my new goal is to have a small home and enough money to hire a guy for stuff.
I think I would start with a professional lawn service. So I can save 4 hours a week and enjoy life.
It doesn't take a lawn to enjoy life.
 

Exterous

Super Moderator
Jun 20, 2006
18,539
1,566
126
I'm surprised there is so much debate about day trading. There is a lot of information out there that shows it doesn't work for the vast majority of people. There's a pretty consistent consensus that 95+% of people lose money*. Of the small percentage making money maybe 1% of day traders make more money than they would have with more traditional methods and net fees. And I would hazard to guess that 1% is equal mix of getting luck vs skill.

I add the * because the % can go up if you decrease the span of time you are talking about. You might get up to 20% for a 6 month period if the market is doing well or recovering from something. But extend that timeframe out to something like a year and that % contracts rapidly.

 

Tweak155

Lifer
Sep 23, 2003
11,288
196
106
I'm surprised there is so much debate about day trading. There is a lot of information out there that shows it doesn't work for the vast majority of people. There's a pretty consistent consensus that 95+% of people lose money*. Of the small percentage making money maybe 1% of day traders make more money than they would have with more traditional methods and net fees. And I would hazard to guess that 1% is equal mix of getting luck vs skill.

I add the * because the % goes up if you decrease the span of time you are talking about. You might get up to 20% for a 6 month period if the market is doing well or recovering from something. But extend that timeframe out to something like a year and that % contracts rapidly.

Where is the debate for low success rate? I don't think anyone disagrees the % is low. Did you not notice Ponyo indicated literally no one can do it?

How do you interpret "Like literally impossible."? Do you agree with it being literally impossible?

EDIT:

In case you missed it:

By all means try. I would not be financially independent without the help of the market. I opened my account the day I turned 18 and been trading ever since.

You know 3 people, none of them day trade. Day trading means opening positions and closing and going to all cash before the end of the day. It's really hard to constantly win doing this. Like literally impossible.


Yes.
 

brianmanahan

Lifer
Sep 2, 2006
19,311
1,736
126
I'm surprised there is so much debate about day trading. There is a lot of information out there that shows it doesn't work for the vast majority of people. There's a pretty consistent consensus that 95+% of people lose money*. Of the small percentage making money maybe 1% of day traders make more money than they would have with more traditional methods and net fees. And I would hazard to guess that 1% is equal mix of getting luck vs skill.
welcome to lake ATOTbegon

where all the children who used to post here are old now

and all the men are successful day traders

and all the women have pointy elbows
 

dasherHampton

Golden Member
Jan 19, 2018
1,752
262
96
This guy is selling a course.

I find the idea that only 2 or 3 or 4 people out of a hundred are "gifted' enough to learn successful day trading to be horse-.....

I'll be diplomatic and say I don't quite agree with it.
 

Exterous

Super Moderator
Jun 20, 2006
18,539
1,566
126
Where is the debate for low success rate? I don't think anyone disagrees the % is low. Did you not notice Ponyo indicated literally no one can do it?

How do you interpret "Like literally impossible."? Do you agree with it being literally impossible?
In case you missed his other comments (which seems unlikely since you responded to one):
"It's extremely hard and next to impossible "
"Success rate is like 1% or less "

Using just the tiniest bit of logic I interpret it as Ponya claiming it is extremely rare and unlikely - which seems backed up by studies - and that the use of an absolute was not intended to mean that no one could ever anywhere in the world in a million years be successful. So trying to read the intent if you will.

But since you are such a fan of exacting statements I never said there was debate about whether the success rate was low or not. So your follow up statement of " I don't think anyone disagrees the % is low. " makes no sense in the context of this discussion because I never claimed otherwise. (although, I suspect EliteRetard might actually debate that but you've left "low" vague and undefined so its tough to tell)

There is certainly a debate about day trading in this thread.

This guy is selling a course.

I find the idea that only 2 or 3 or 4 people out of a hundred are "gifted' enough to learn successful day trading to be horse-.....

I'll be diplomatic and say I don't quite agree with it.
So do you have similar disputes with the published research? Seems in line with published Berkeley paper: "Less than 1% of the day trader population is able to predictably and reliably earn positive abnormal returns net of fees. "
 

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
55,610
7,425
126
www.uovalor.com
I think if day trading would be easy all the big investment firms would be doing it with our investments. Some MIGHT do it, but I think most of it is longer term stuff.

I won't pretend to have tons of experience watching stocks but one thing I've found is the ones I can afford (penny stocks mostly) don't fluctuate enough throughout the day so I would not really be able to day trade those even if I wanted to. I tend to aim for more long term growth. Even then there is lot of risk especially with penny stocks, but way I see it, I don't really go to casinos or buy lot of lotto tickets so a couple hundred bucks here and there into stocks is not a HUGE loss if they never end up returning me anything. I went a bit far with a local mine and put a bit over 1k into them though... so I do hope those eventually go up even if it's in like 20 years from now.
 

Tweak155

Lifer
Sep 23, 2003
11,288
196
106
In case you missed his other comments (which seems unlikely since you responded to one):
"It's extremely hard and next to impossible "
"Success rate is like 1% or less "

Using just the tiniest bit of logic I interpret it as Ponya claiming it is extremely rare and unlikely - which seems backed up by studies - and that the use of an absolute was not intended to mean that no one could ever anywhere in the world in a million years be successful. So trying to read the intent if you will.

But since you are such a fan of exacting statements I never said there was debate about whether the success rate was low or not. So your follow up statement of " I don't think anyone disagrees the % is low. " makes no sense in the context of this discussion because I never claimed otherwise. (although, I suspect EliteRetard might actually debate that but you've left "low" vague and undefined so its tough to tell)

There is certainly a debate about day trading in this thread.



So do you have similar disputes with the published research? Seems in line with published Berkeley paper: "Less than 1% of the day trader population is able to predictably and reliably earn positive abnormal returns net of fees. "
You need to string all his comments together and not cherry pick them if you're going to go back and quote multiple. Try a tiny bit more logic, you'll get it sooner or later. I don't even think you need to be in the top 1% to figure it out.
 

Exterous

Super Moderator
Jun 20, 2006
18,539
1,566
126
You need to string all his comments together and not cherry pick them if you're going to go back and quote multiple. Try a tiny bit more logic, you'll get it sooner or later. I don't even think you need to be in the top 1% to figure it out.
Actually no need at all. I have confidence you'll figure it out. Well maybe not. I could be wrong so we'll see what your next reply reveals
 

Charmonium

Diamond Member
May 15, 2015
5,858
440
126
If you're going to live forever, put a couple hundred in the bank then sit back, crack a brewski and let compounding interest work it's magic.

Otherwise, keep putting money into your investment account, including reinvesting interest and dividends. Then . . . and here's the beauty part . . . forget that you have an investment account.
 
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snoopy7548

Diamond Member
Jan 1, 2005
5,050
2,034
136
If you're going to live forever, put a couple hundred in the bank then sit back, crack a brewski and let compounding interest work it's magic.

Otherwise, keep putting money into your investment account, including reinvesting interest and dividends. Then . . . and here's the beauty part . . . forget that you have an investment account.
Just like Ron Popeil always says...

1590267322006.png
 
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