Its articles like these that make student loan reform difficult

[Exterous]

Liz Kelley, a Missouri high school teacher and mother of four who made a series of unremarkable decisions about college and borrowing. She now owes the federal government $410,000, and counting.

Ms. Kelley, 48, first enrolled in college in 1990 at Maryville University, a private school near St. Louis. She took out loans to help pay tuition, and by the time she graduated with a degree in English in 1994,the total was $26,278, which is the inflation-adjusted equivalent of about $42,000 in 2015. This is not an unusual sum.

Uh yes - yes it is. Average student loan debt in 1996 was ~$12,000 (adjusted for inflation) How is almost 4x the average not unusual??

http://www.mybudget360.com/average-student-debt-average-cost-for-college-rite-of-passage-student-debt-bubble/

Ms. Kelley decided to go into teaching, which meant graduate school back at Maryville.

This is absolutely not true. College credit\Graduate school is one way to get a Professional Development credit required but that is not the only way (and is, typically, the most expensive way to get it). Also if she didn't have a teacher's cert then she could do undergrad instead of grad school

https://dese.mo.gov/educator-quality/certification/upgrading-initial-certificate-career-certificate

Ms. Kelley found work as a teacher at a public school. To be eligible for the highest possible salary, she needed additional graduate work, which she borrowed to complete. By staying enrolled in graduate school from 1999 to 2004, she was able to again put off repaying her older loans. But the interest charges continued, compounding every year. Graduate school and child care added $60,700 to the principal.

I doubt she did the math to figure out how long that would take to pay off considering interest and increases in salary. I certainly don't know about her area but my wife's school gives an extra $5k per year for a graduate degree. If we assume that to be the case with a 4% interest rate it will take her 16 years to pay off something she didn't need. Even a $10k bump (unlikely in Missouri) will take 7 years to break even

One received a financial aid package that included $12,000 in Parent PLUS loans, a federal program that allows parents to borrow money for their children’s college education after the children have reached the maximum on loans of their own. She agreed, hoping to minimize her children’s debt. She briefly enrolled in an education Ph.D. program at Texas A&M before withdrawing, but not fast enough to avoid an additional $7,458 in loans.

A series of unremarkable decisions? Please...

There are very valid points and some unfortunate consequences like her illness but, IMO those get lost because the article equates her terrible financial decisions with 'unremarkable' along with saying she needed grad school for teaching and saying her private student loans were not unusual.

Terrible reporting and picking people who make bad decisions is not a way to get everyone on board with Financial Aid reform

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/29/upshot/student-debt-in-america-lend-with-a-smile-collect-with-a-fist.html?ref=business

 

[Homerboy]

Agreed
You should send your response to the author and see what they say.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

bu-bu-but she's just an innocent mom trying to make it in the world! How is that wrong? It's not her responsibility to think about her actions before doing them!

For some reason that argument didn't work when I got pulled over last night for DWI though :hmm:

 

[steppinthrax]

Simple solution???

Don't go to college getting a LOW TIER degree (English), expecting to come out in the green.

2nd solution, there are several ways to get the GOV to forgive or pay off much of her student loan. If you teach at a economically disadvantaged school, the gov will forgive your loan for each year past a certain point.

So theoretically she could get that down.

I paid my 25K student loan off in roughly 3 years after graduating. I sent the gov a 14K check on my last payment. LMAO.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Honestly if I was drowning in $400k debt with a kid already, I would probably just /slitwrists. There is no hope for you with that level of stupidity. None. Zero.

I think whats more baffling (and opens up another can of worms) is simply... This person is completely stupid. We can all agree on that. In yet, this stupid person is teaching our next kids in line. That is in all honesty, frightening.

Here you are - Smart enough to go to college (not that everyone needs to). Smart enough to get through a first degree (as in, smart enough to pass instead of dropping out). Smart enough to get a masters and pass.... In yet... too stupid to understand basic accounting and finance information. How in the hell is that even possible? You went through over 18 years of school, and somehow along the way you weren't able to understand simple things like compounding interest? Does this not tell you what a joke her education must have been if you can't come out of school with basic knowledge?

I learned simple shit like that before I even took basic business courses. I learned that shit in high school. I learned that by paying my bills and getting my first credit card right out of high school. It's simply MIND BOGGLING how this is even possible.

 

[steppinthrax]

Honestly if I was drowning in $400k debt with a kid already, I would probably just /slitwrists. There is no hope for you with that level of stupidity. None. Zero.

I think whats more baffling (and opens up another can of worms) is simply... This person is completely stupid. We can all agree on that. In yet, this stupid person is teaching our next kids in line. That is in all honesty, frightening.

Here you are - Smart enough to go to college (not that everyone needs to). Smart enough to get through a first degree (as in, smart enough to pass instead of dropping out). Smart enough to get a masters and pass.... In yet... too stupid to understand basic accounting and finance information. How in the hell is that even possible? You went through over 18 years of school, and somehow along the way you weren't able to understand simple things like compounding interest? Does this not tell you what a joke her education must have been if you can't come out of school with basic knowledge?

I learned simple shit like that before I even took basic business courses. I learned that shit in high school. I learned that by paying my bills and getting my first credit card right out of high school. It's simply MIND BOGGLING how this is even possible.

She still has lots of options that you are not thinking of. However they may req a radical change in lifestyle.

1. Lots of federal jobs and federal agencies will pay back student loan debt. I know the US patent office has such a program. It's done in percentages.

2. JobCorps, US Military, with a PhD she would enter into Officer Training School. She would be in at least as a O-1. The military will pay down much of her debt.

3. Leave the US (yeah) LOL

4. Get married: A lot of affluent men would enjoy the company of a educated woman (art women, English women, theater women). They see she is educated and enlightened and money is no issue in any situation....

But again, I as I said again, she is stupid for getting a English Degree....

In her situation I would pick either 1 or 2. The military would be the most interesting, but it all depends what the recruiter says. They may tell her they will only pay 50K v.s. working at the US Patent office for 10 years...

 

[Cozarkian]

She still has lots of options that you are not thinking of. However they may req a radical change in lifestyle.

1. Lots of federal jobs and federal agencies will pay back student loan debt. I know the US patent office has such a program. It's done in percentages.

2. JobCorps, US Military, with a PhD she would enter into Officer Training School. She would be in at least as a O-1. The military will pay down much of her debt.

3. Leave the US (yeah) LOL

4. Get married: A lot of affluent men would enjoy the company of a educated woman (art women, English women, theater women). They see she is educated and enlightened and money is no issue in any situation....

But again, I as I said again, she is stupid for getting a English Degree....

In her situation I would pick either 1 or 2. The military would be the most interesting, but it all depends what the recruiter says. They may tell her they will only pay 50K v.s. working at the US Patent office for 10 years...

Can't she just sign up for income based repayment, make timely payments for 30 years, and then the rest will be forgiven?

 

[steppinthrax]

Can't she just sign up for income based repayment, make timely payments for 30 years, and then the rest will be forgiven?

Not sure, that's an Obama program. I think you have to had the loan for at least 3 years. Also think of it this way it's a 400K loan at a rate of 4.75% (was my last Student loan interest rate).

That is pretty much a home mortgage. With the exception that there will be no MI or Property taxes.....

 

[Cozarkian]

Not sure, that's an Obama program. I think you have to had the loan for at least 3 years. Also think of it this way it's a 400K loan at a rate of 4.75% (was my last Student loan interest rate).

That is pretty much a home mortgage. With the exception that there will be no MI or Property taxes.....

According to a calculator I googled:

http://www.aie.org/pay-for-college/manage-costs/find-out-if-you-qualify-for-income-based-repayment.cfm#

If she makes 100k per year in AIG and is unmarried with 4 kids, she can sign up for IBR with payments of around $717.

So she only actually has to pay back around $260,000. Even less if her AIG is below $100k, which I suspect it is.

 

[DrPizza]

Just a FWIW, I didn't research her specific state, but

This is absolutely not true. College credit\Graduate school is one way to get a Professional Development credit required but that is not the only way (and is, typically, the most expensive way to get it). Also if she didn't have a teacher's cert then she could do undergrad instead of grad school

is not universally true. For example, in NY, it is absolutely required that you get a master's degree. Further, the master's degree has to be from specific types of accredited institutions. Also, a graduate degree is often cheaper than an undergraduate degree - not as many credit hours are required for such a degree.

 

[WHAMPOM]

Uh yes - yes it is. Average student loan debt in 1996 was ~$12,000 (adjusted for inflation) How is almost 4x the average not unusual??

http://www.mybudget360.com/average-student-debt-average-cost-for-college-rite-of-passage-student-debt-bubble/



This is absolutely not true. College credit\Graduate school is one way to get a Professional Development credit required but that is not the only way (and is, typically, the most expensive way to get it). Also if she didn't have a teacher's cert then she could do undergrad instead of grad school

https://dese.mo.gov/educator-quality/certification/upgrading-initial-certificate-career-certificate



I doubt she did the math to figure out how long that would take to pay off considering interest and increases in salary. I certainly don't know about her area but my wife's school gives an extra $5k per year for a graduate degree. If we assume that to be the case with a 4% interest rate it will take her 16 years to pay off something she didn't need. Even a $10k bump (unlikely in Missouri) will take 7 years to break even



A series of unremarkable decisions? Please...

There are very valid points and some unfortunate consequences like her illness but, IMO those get lost because the article equates her terrible financial decisions with 'unremarkable' along with saying she needed grad school for teaching and saying her private student loans were not unusual.

Terrible reporting and picking people who make bad decisions is not a way to get everyone on board with Financial Aid reform

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/29/upshot/student-debt-in-america-lend-with-a-smile-collect-with-a-fist.html?ref=business

Quick fix. Just make student loans interest free.

 

[Exterous]

Just a FWIW, I didn't research her specific state, but

is not universally true. For example, in NY, it is absolutely required that you get a master's degree. Further, the master's degree has to be from specific types of accredited institutions. Also, a graduate degree is often cheaper than an undergraduate degree - not as many credit hours are required for such a degree.

I know which is why I put a link to the state's requirements right below that section. The only college-y part of it is requiring 30 hours of Professional development where 1 college credit hour = 15 professional development hour...well unless she teaches for more than 99 years

 

[steppinthrax]

Just a FWIW, I didn't research her specific state, but

is not universally true. For example, in NY, it is absolutely required that you get a master's degree. Further, the master's degree has to be from specific types of accredited institutions. Also, a graduate degree is often cheaper than an undergraduate degree - not as many credit hours are required for such a degree.

My masters degree was free! Employer paid.

People need to be able to make smart decisions. There is always a loophole to everything.

 

[CountZero]

But why should this make reform difficult?

If her case were average then it likely wouldn't be in the news despite the wording the article uses. If we want to talk about reform we need to focus on the average case and take into account the exceptional but not stop reform just because exceptional cases exist.

This is true for pretty much every case of assistance. Dropping or not providing assistance because some small number will abuse a system is short sighted.

 

[OutHouse]

as long as the federal gov keeps writing blank checks for education this shit will not stop. Colleges will keep raking in the money.

19 year old kid to a loan officer.
Sir i need 40,000
loan officer: what for? you are 19, make 7.15 a hour flipping burgers.
kid: i want a new BMW
loan officer: kicks kid out of bank


19 year old kid to a student loan officer
Kid: sir i need 40,000
SLO: you want to go to school here?
kid: yes sir!
SLO: OK Sign here the money is yours and as long as you are in school you dont have to pay a dime back
kid: WHOOT!!

 

[steppinthrax]

as long as the federal gov keeps writing blank checks for education this shit will not stop. Colleges will keep raking in the money.

19 year old kid to a loan officer.
Sir i need 40,000
loan officer: what for? you are 19, make 7.15 a hour flipping burgers.
kid: i want a new BMW
loan officer: kicks kid out of bank


19 year old kid to a student loan officer
Kid: sir i need 40,000
SLO: you want to go to school here?
kid: yes sir!
SLO: OK Sign here the money is yours and as long as you are in school you dont have to pay a dime back
kid: WHOOT!!

The student loan money is tied directly to the educational institution. They never hand you a check made out to your name.

 

[SP33Demon]

Stop reading the NYTimes, it's poisoning your brain. To them, 4x the average student loan is normal because their mantra is take out a loan as big as possible for your shitty liberal arts degree.

Read the WSJ or Businessweek instead, not left leaning hot garbage that wants 100% student loan forgiveness and socialized free education.

 

[steppinthrax]

Stop reading the NYTimes, it's poisoning your brain. To them, 4x the average student loan is normal because their mantra is take out a loan as big as possible for your shitty liberal arts degree.

Read the WSJ or Businessweek instead, not left leaning hot garbage that wants 100% student loan forgiveness and socialized free education.

LMAO