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It's a simple thing, buckle up

Painted brake calipers.
I wonder if he hit that wall face first or backwards... You can clearly see the outline of his shoulders and head... Kinda crazy.
 
I'll never understand why anyone would get in a car and not buckle up. I'll never understand why people oppose seatbelt laws either... idiots.
 
JulesMaximus said:
I'll never understand why anyone would get in a car and not buckle up. I'll never understand why people oppose seatbelt laws either... idiots.
Click to expand...

Same here. I feel a little naked without a seatbelt.

I'm guessing these are also the people who drive motorcycles in shorts and a t shirt instead of real motorcycle gear. Of well Darwin wins again
 
NutBucket said:
They're the same morons that oppose helmet laws. I'm all for personal freedom but then there's just stupid.
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or the morons who block blanket smoking ban or the morons who stop us from returning prohibition.

we accept that those two actions will kill you slowly or kill you and your buddies quickly, but they're legal.

seatbelts might keep the individual from harm, but his lack of restraint harms no one but he who chose the action.

I oppose helmet and seat belt laws. I wear my seat belt not because I need told to, but it is the direction I've chosen. on track, I wear my helmet too.
 
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The problem is when people sustain preventable injuries I end up footing the bill. While the smoking ban improves my quality of life I don't need it. I really don't care if people smoke. If the band didn't exist I would get along just fine. I would simply avoid smoke fill areas/businesses. Of course the other side effect of the smoking ban is that there a lot less cigarette butts everywhere. That is something I've definitely noticed.

The basic issue is I don't care what you do as long as it doesn't impinge upon my quality of life. If your actions indirectly cost me money I'm not going to be happy about it. Smoking is a lifestyle choice. Wearing a seat belt is common sense.
 
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NutBucket said:
The problem is when people sustain preventable injuries I end up footing the bill. While the smoking ban improves my quality of life I don't need it. I really don't care if people smoke. If the band didn't exist I would get along just fine. I would simply avoid smoke fill areas/businesses. Of course the other side effect of the smoking ban is that there a lot less cigarette butts everywhere. That is something I've definitely noticed.

The basic issue is I don't care what you do as long as it doesn't impinge upon my quality of life. If your actions indirectly cost me money I'm not going to be happy about it. Smoking is a lifestyle choice. Wearing a seat belt is common sense.
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Obviously you have this well thought out.....err...

People in a vehicle are likely to have at least some kind of insurance...or the person driving the other car that was involved might.

Smokers tend to be poor. The poor tend to not have medical insurance, and use the ER when they get sick from it.

Back on topic, not wearing a seatbelt or helmet is extremely selfish, but you have a right to be selfish. That is why they are token infractions/fines that are meant for easy pickings to increase revenue.
 
Ferzerp said:
or the morons who block blanket smoking ban or the morons who stop us from returning prohibition.

we accept that those two actions will kill you slowly or kill you and your buddies quickly, but they're legal.
Click to expand...

If there was a routine possibility of ingesting a fifth of vodka by accident during a daily activity, I think you'd find people quite open to the idea of securing the bottles.
 
Ferzerp said:
seatbelts might keep the individual from harm, but his lack of restraint harms no one but he who chose the action.
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their parents
their children
their brothers
their sisters
their friends
their co-workers
everyone who pays premiums to their insurance company
the cops, emts, etc who have to deal with the mess
the innocent bystanders who have person splattered all over their car / yard / house

yeah, only one person gets hurt
 
skyking said:
18 year old died early this morning, not far from my home. He was ejected in the high speed rollover, and did the kind of damage a car does to a house 🙁
http://q13fox.com/2013/08/15/horrific-car-wreck-kills-one-teen/#axzz2c5yv6sNK

That poor lady who came out to find this in her yard.
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I was witness to similar about 6 years ago.

Visiting daughter in Vegas and early (6AM) Sunday, took the pups to the local dog park. Stopped at a 4 way intersection and noticed a vehicle speeding (80) up the road from the right. Four lane road makes a slight dip and there is gravel at the edge of the dip where it becomes a two lane.

Airman out of Nellis lost control and the car was sliding backwards when it past me.
Caught the curb; flipped and ejected the driver into the retaining wall for a HOA.

I called 911, took the dogs to the park and came back to report what I saw to the CSI on the scene.

1) Was not wearing his seatbelt (even though required to by USAF regs)
2) Speeding though intersections and in excess of conditions
3) Drunk -case of beer was scattered over the road. Later on blood tested at 0.2
4) Driving emotionally

Apparently he had just come from a party where he was told that his GF was pregnant. she lived aboiut 1/2 mile down the road.
 
Ferzerp said:
o
seatbelts might keep the individual from harm, but his lack of restraint harms no one but he who chose the action.
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that's not true.
An unbuckled body will slam on the front seat and kill whoever is there. Your head may swing around and hit other occupants in the car.
Also if you fly out of the window, your body may hit and kill someone.
 
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angminas said:
their parents
their children
their brothers
their sisters
their friends
their co-workers
everyone who pays premiums to their insurance company
the cops, emts, etc who have to deal with the mess
the innocent bystanders who have person splattered all over their car / yard / house

yeah, only one person gets hurt
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Plus the other cars you hit and the people inside who are killed.

Another thing I think people overlook is that the belt keeps you in position to control, or try to control, the car.

Without the belts, you can be knocked out of position very easily and lose control of the car entirely.

A small incident is turned into disaster.

Lose concentration for a second and bounce off the guard rail:

With belts on, you regain control and stop to check the damage.

Without belts on, you are knocked over towards the passenger seat when you bang into the rail. You lose control of the car and go into the opposite lane and have a head on collision.

Something as small as dropping a wheel off the pavement can shake the car enough for you to be unable to control the car if you aren't belted into the driver's seat.
 
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My brother died in a car accident because he wasn't wearing his seatbelt. He was flung from the car and his head hit the other car. My parents took him off life support two days later as he was brain dead. He always used to wear his seatbelt also and he always made sure that we had ours on, at that time there was no law requiring it. For some reason that one day he didn't have it on. If he had been wearing it he would have survived.

It's not just about you but also those around you that will be affected. I will always unfortunately carry around the image of my brother in the hospital with the physical damage and swelling to his head and that is how I last saw him. I can't imagine what my mom and dad felt like. Whether or not you think there should be laws requiring it doesn't matter, just buckle up and make sure your family is buckled up. You will save your family and friends pain and grief.
 
Murloc said:
that's not true.
An unbuckled body will slam on the front seat and kill whoever is there. Your head may swing around and hit other occupants in the car.
Also if you fly out of the window, your body may hit and kill someone.
Click to expand...

This. There used to be a tv commercial played around here where they dramatized events from a real car crash. The guy in the back seat was the only one not wearing a seat belt and killed two other occupants who may have other wise lived. He flew forward crushing the person driving, then swung sideways as the car rolled over and crushed the girl sitting beside him.
 
Definitely a sad story, but I have to say, I am disgusted at the vehicular homicide charge they're throwing at the driver. Don't get me wrong, he was definitely in the wrong here, but throwing a kid like that in jail for driving like an idiot?

Maybe I am way off base here, but I just don't see how that is beneficial in this situation.

And most definitely, wear your frickin seat belt. It is far more likely to save you than anything else.

Lastly, I was at a lake resort in Minnesota with family some time back. Similar situation as this, though it involved a boat. Apparently, a guy who lived on the lake would frequent the resort's shop for various supplies. On this day, he headed over and apparently hit a wave that knocked him out of his boat. In boats, you have a strap that is tied to a cutoff that kills the engine if the driver gets pulled too far from the location. He wasn't wearing it, and as a result, he was kicking in the water and the boat was throttling around in circles and eventually ran him over as no one could devise a way to stop it in time. Dead.

Safety devices are there to protect you. If you don't wear them, at any point, you run the risk of being dead for not doing something very, very simple. Sad, but it is what it is I guess.
 
Ferzerp said:
or the morons who block blanket smoking ban or the morons who stop us from returning prohibition.

we accept that those two actions will kill you slowly or kill you and your buddies quickly, but they're legal.

seatbelts might keep the individual from harm, but his lack of restraint harms no one but he who chose the action.

I oppose helmet and seat belt laws. I wear my seat belt not because I need told to, but it is the direction I've chosen. on track, I wear my helmet too.
Click to expand...

Why? It is a minor inconvenience to wear a seatbelt yet it vastly improves your chance of survival in an accident. Has nothing to do with freedom or slippery slopes.

By the way, I'm one of the rare motorcyclists who actually isn't opposed to helmet laws. 😉
 
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My life was saved by a seat belt when I was 17. Driving my parent's Ford Fairmont on I8 East of San Diego minding my own business, when a Jeep Cherokee came through the median at full speed, hitting me almost head-on. Total freak accident. The front of the car crumpled upwards so if I wasn't wearing my seat belt, first the steering wheel would have cut me in half, then my head and torso would have gone through the windshield, through the hood of the car and into the engine (IIRC an iron block 3.3L inline-6) which was pushed up into essentially line-of-sight.

Someone I knew (worked same company, but different department) was in an accident. Car was traveling super high speeds, lost control and rolled several times. Three people in the car. Two wearing seat belts walked away from the accident with minor injuries (cuts/bruises). This guy I knew was the only one not wearing a seat belt. He was ejected from the car and one leg ended up broken in multiple places. Literally a year later he was still gimped.

Yeah, I'm a fan of safety equipment. I even wear a helmet when I ride my bicycle. And yes I've been saved by helmets too (probably not my life, but more serious injury).
 
NutBucket said:
The problem is when people sustain preventable injuries I end up footing the bill. While the smoking ban improves my quality of life I don't need it. I really don't care if people smoke. If the band didn't exist I would get along just fine. I would simply avoid smoke fill areas/businesses. Of course the other side effect of the smoking ban is that there a lot less cigarette butts everywhere. That is something I've definitely noticed.

The basic issue is I don't care what you do as long as it doesn't impinge upon my quality of life. If your actions indirectly cost me money I'm not going to be happy about it. Smoking is a lifestyle choice. Wearing a seat belt is common sense.
Click to expand...

Smoking costs you a hell of a lot more than preventable injuries (and yes I'm assuming you're a non-smoker - I'm talking about other people smoking costing you LOTS and LOTS of money).
 
Ferzerp said:
I oppose helmet and seat belt laws. I wear my seat belt not because I need told to, but it is the direction I've chosen. on track, I wear my helmet too.
Click to expand...
that's just you though.
You have to think of a stressed out person with kids straight from hell, who refuse to buckle up.
If there's a clear and present risk (certainity of punishment) of getting a big fine, that person is going to insist.
If there are no laws, plebs begin to make assumptions about probabilities, like it's just a short drive, it's just around the corner etc. and they end up not using the seatbelt, despite of the facts.
The risk of accident is just not perceived strongly enough.
The risk of a fine is well perceived because if you routinely don't respect the law, you get a fine, but you will get in a real accident (not just bumping around) once in your life if ever.

You might say that it's their business if they get killed, but in reality it means higher insurance and healthcare costs that hit everyone in the wallet.

mvbighead said:
Definitely a sad story, but I have to say, I am disgusted at the vehicular homicide charge they're throwing at the driver. Don't get me wrong, he was definitely in the wrong here, but throwing a kid like that in jail for driving like an idiot?

Maybe I am way off base here, but I just don't see how that is beneficial in this situation.
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what if someone steals a car with a baby, drives recklessly and crashes it, killing the baby?
That charge makes sense.
I don't think you can write in law that depending on how much people you cared about you killed, you get a lighter maximum sentence.
In this case it seems disgusting because he already has the guilt coming from the consequences of his actions, but the judge has wiggle room to take repentance into account. Unless you have minimum sentences that include jail time to be served for this.
 
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JulesMaximus said:
Why? It is a minor inconvenience to wear a seatbelt yet it vastly improves your chance of survival in an accident. Has nothing to do with freedom or slippery slopes.

By the way, I'm one of the rare motorcyclists who actually isn't opposed to helmet laws. 😉
Click to expand...

It's not the gov't job to make you "safe"... that's a personal choice, just like smoking cigs is a personal choice. I wear all my gear in a state where no gear at all is required. It's just common sense. If you aren't smart enough to slap a lid on, well... You sort of deserve what's coming.
 
Murloc said:
what if someone steals a car with a baby, drives recklessly and crashes it, killing the baby?
That charge makes sense.
I don't think you can write in law that depending on how much people you cared about you killed, you get a lighter maximum sentence.
In this case it seems disgusting because he already has the guilt coming from the consequences of his actions, but the judge has wiggle room to take repentance into account. Unless you have minimum sentences that include jail time to be served for this.
Click to expand...

If you are in the act of committing a felony, what happens as a result of that felony should be charged to the extent allowed.

For this incident, it was a "kids being kids" kinda thing, and while I didn't see the speed limit he exceeded, I don't figure 80 to 85 being so high as to be a felony. It's unfortunate, but the really unfortunate aspect was the kid wasn't wearing a seat belt. I'd suspect he'd have been fine if he was.

So, in this example, do you fault the driver for the passenger not wearing the seatbelt when an accident cost him his life, or do you fault the passenger? I just don't see how it makes the situation any better. He already has the death of a peer on his conscience for the rest of his life. Why throw a sentence at him? I'd assume the passenger was there of his own free will.
 
RCW 46.61.520
Vehicular homicide — Penalty.


(1) When the death of any person ensues within three years as a proximate result of injury proximately caused by the driving of any vehicle by any person, the driver is guilty of vehicular homicide if the driver was operating a motor vehicle:

(a) While under the influence of intoxicating liquor or any drug, as defined by RCW 46.61.502; or

(b) In a reckless manner; or

(c) With disregard for the safety of others.

(2) Vehicular homicide is a class A felony punishable under chapter 9A.20 RCW, except that, for a conviction under subsection (1)(a) of this section, an additional two years shall be added to the sentence for each prior offense as defined in RCW 46.61.5055.
 
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