It should be legal to shoot-to-kill for property theft

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Mo0o

Lifer
Jul 31, 2001
24,227
3
76
Originally posted by: 91TTZ
Originally posted by: Mo0o

So can i assume you've never downloaded an illegal mp3 or movie? Have you ever sampled a grape at the grocery store?

I've never stolen a grape, and the law does not allow deadly force to protect intangible property. In other words, you can shoot someone who tries to steal your car, VCR, TV, etc, but you can't shoot someone who is stealing your ideas, copyrights, data, etc.

Is this in your house or anywhere? So if you leave something out on your lawn near the sidewalk and someone grabs it, youre allowed to shoot him? is this a federal law or a state law? Is there a monetary limit? What if therse a paper cup on your lawn and someone grabs it in an attempt to throw it away. Are you legally allowed to blow him away w/ your shotgun?
 
Aug 23, 2000
15,509
1
81
Originally posted by: judasmachine
death is hardly a penalty for petty theft. do you actually value stuff more than human life? they have a name for that and it's greed, remember it's a deadly sin to boot.

Well when theives understand that there is a possibility that they will be killed when they try to steal my car, they will think 2 about it. And It's not valuing property over human life, it is valuing MY property over human life.
 

SuperTool

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
14,000
2
0
Originally posted by: Hammer
Originally posted by: SuperTool
Originally posted by: Hammer
Originally posted by: SuperTool
Originally posted by: beer
Originally posted by: SuperTool
Everything is dumber in Texas. Do their shooters get away by claiming self defense?

Yes, we're dumber in Texas alright. My EE degree isn't worth anything compared to yours, because mine is from Texas, right?

Yes, that is true. Texas EE's get paid about 10K less out of college compared to Silicon Valley EE's :D

Texas EE's are more likely to keep their job than California EE's too.

You are basing that on numbers you pull out of where?
California EE's are more likely to find a job than Texas EE's.

more likely to find a job where? at McDonald's? in Bangalore? :laugh:

I'm basing it on silicon valley being the #1 target for offshoring. worst in the nation.

http://www.forums.eetimes.com/jive3/thread.jspa?threadID=300044560&tstart=75

Those are IT jobs, I am in Silicon Valley, and I know the market better than you.
It takes months to find a good EE to fill a position.
 

Hammer

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
13,217
1
81
Originally posted by: SuperTool
Originally posted by: Hammer
Originally posted by: SuperTool
Originally posted by: Hammer
Originally posted by: SuperTool
Originally posted by: beer
Originally posted by: SuperTool
Everything is dumber in Texas. Do their shooters get away by claiming self defense?

Yes, we're dumber in Texas alright. My EE degree isn't worth anything compared to yours, because mine is from Texas, right?

Yes, that is true. Texas EE's get paid about 10K less out of college compared to Silicon Valley EE's :D

Texas EE's are more likely to keep their job than California EE's too.

You are basing that on numbers you pull out of where?
California EE's are more likely to find a job than Texas EE's.

more likely to find a job where? at McDonald's? in Bangalore? :laugh:

I'm basing it on silicon valley being the #1 target for offshoring. worst in the nation.

http://www.forums.eetimes.com/jive3/thread.jspa?threadID=300044560&tstart=75

Those are IT jobs, I am in Silicon Valley, and I know the market better than you.
It takes months to find a good EE to fill a position.

uh huh. :laugh:
 

Pliablemoose

Lifer
Oct 11, 1999
25,195
0
56
Originally posted by: shuan24
hammer or pliablemoose:

I thought texas also had the law where you couldn't shoot someone in the back? because wouldn't that imply that they were no longer of danger to you?

If they're running from you and have not damaged your property or have decided not to steal your stuff you can no longer use deadly force. If they're running away from you with your VCR in their hands, you can shoot them in the back.

You cannot use deadly force to prevent a "simple" kidnapping-that clause was put in because of child custody issues, however if the kidnapping is "aggrivated" (someone is assaulted, etc) you can use deadly force.
 

VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
56,548
10,171
126
Originally posted by: Mo0o
Is this in your house or anywhere? So if you leave something out on your lawn near the sidewalk and someone grabs it, youre allowed to shoot him? is this a federal law or a state law? Is there a monetary limit? What if therse a paper cup on your lawn and someone grabs it in an attempt to throw it away. Are you legally allowed to blow him away w/ your shotgun?

Alright! A plot-line for Serious Sam III: The Paper Cup on the Sidewalk!

 
Aug 23, 2000
15,509
1
81
Originally posted by: Pliablemoose
Originally posted by: SuperTool
Originally posted by: beer
If I see someone breaking into my car, it should be legal for me to shoot them. It should make no difference whether I am in imminent bodily threat, pieces of sh!t deserve to be removed from the gene pull and handgun rounds should be doing the trick.

You are right, repo men should not be able to reproduce :)


Repo men in Texas get shot at a lot...


Yes they do, because 99% of them don't have court orders to reposses, which is required. If they don't provide the court document ordering the repossesion they are fair game. Frankly I'm supprised more tow truck drivers aren't blasted in Texas.
 

AMDZen

Lifer
Apr 15, 2004
12,589
0
76
In my mind, you guys are all arguing the wrong issue. Should you be aloud to use force? Most definetely, Deadly force? Is another story and much harder to justify.

But just for a second lets say you should be able to, which is where I lean. If they are stealing your heard earned stuff, then I think a testicle getting cut off is attequate punishment. But here is the real issue in my mind, are you willing to risk YOUR LIFE to go out and confront the punk @ss fool who is stealing your stereo? If the answer to this question is yes for you, then you are an idiot. Think about it, how many of those gang bangers who gank stereo's ALSO have a gun. Basically your gambling your going to get a shot off before he does, and guess what he has your car for cover, so chances are you'll hit your own car any way.

Thats how I feel about it. Because honestly, I've been in this situation. here is my story.

Me and my friend we're both chilling at another friends house one night, smokin, playing video games and having fun. 10 pm rolls around and my remote goes off. See I have the 2-way radio alarm which will notify me if my car alarm goes off, or if it just does the quick "beep beep beep" warning. As well as shows any doors being opened. Well, what came across my remote was a warning. Car stereo's and loud exhaust will set this off, so I didn't think much of it. But another friend was like well lets just go see. Alright.

So me and my friend walk out and see 3 people breaking into his car. They had knocked his door into my car door which set off the quick warning. WE are all freakin' out, like what should we do. Well another friend was over at this guys has as well, totaling 4. So we go grab those 2 thinking 4 against 3, we can handle them. Well as soon as my friend and all 4 of us exit, he shouts "hey thats my car what the fvkk u doin" at which point 2 of them look up and one puts his hand on a gun located in his pants. Typical mexican fashion. No offense at all, I've just seen this particular incident. See, we we're all so caught up in the moment, that we didn't even think about them having weapons. Nor will we ever make that mistake again. At this point the other friend was like, "Calm down vato" to his friend (no i don't know how to spell vato but whatever) and they all 3 leave real quick like.

Obviously we did not chase them, but we did learn a lesson.

Don't be so quick to confront criminals. If they are already commiting a crime, who is to say they aren't capable of murder too? I realize this was at someone else's house and we didn't have a weapon which we could have pointed first, but that is just asking for trouble in my mind. Its like the old west at that point, even if you fired are you going to kill all 3? Who is to say one of them isn't a quick draw and gets you after you get his 2 friends? The fact is, I am VERY comfortable with weapons, yet I don't know if/when it came down to it if I could kill someone, even for gankin' my stereo. Whereas since you don't know the criminal, you are unaware if he is capable of that or not.

Just a lesson for you all to take under advisment.
 

SuperTool

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
14,000
2
0
Originally posted by: Hammer
Originally posted by: SuperTool
Originally posted by: Hammer
Originally posted by: SuperTool
Originally posted by: Hammer
Originally posted by: SuperTool
Originally posted by: beer
Originally posted by: SuperTool
Everything is dumber in Texas. Do their shooters get away by claiming self defense?

Yes, we're dumber in Texas alright. My EE degree isn't worth anything compared to yours, because mine is from Texas, right?

Yes, that is true. Texas EE's get paid about 10K less out of college compared to Silicon Valley EE's :D

Texas EE's are more likely to keep their job than California EE's too.

You are basing that on numbers you pull out of where?
California EE's are more likely to find a job than Texas EE's.

more likely to find a job where? at McDonald's? in Bangalore? :laugh:

I'm basing it on silicon valley being the #1 target for offshoring. worst in the nation.

http://www.forums.eetimes.com/jive3/thread.jspa?threadID=300044560&tstart=75

Those are IT jobs, I am in Silicon Valley, and I know the market better than you.
It takes months to find a good EE to fill a position.

uh huh. :laugh:

They wouldn't be giving me these big raises if they weren't affraid I would jump ship. There was a rough patch in 2001 and 2002 after the bubble burst, but it turned around in 2003, and now people have started moving from company to company again. There is startup activity as well drawing engineers.
 

SuperTool

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
14,000
2
0
Originally posted by: beer
Originally posted by: SuperTool
You are basing that on numbers you pull out of where?
California EE's are more likely to find a job than Texas EE's.

What the fscsk did this thread turn into? You think we have an inherent lack of skill, because we're from Texas. That's bullsh!t and you just talking crap out of your ass. Silicon Valley EEs may get paid more, but there is a higher cost of living, and I don't think finding employment is hard for ANYONE where I go to school with! This should not be a pissing contest and should focus on the topic at hand.

Hey, you are the one who brought up EE's. Guess what I may move to Texas and keep my CA salary. Then you'll be my b!tch. :D
Stanford and Cal people aren't exactly suffering either. I don't have anything against UT Austin. But Austin is more like Silicon Valley than it is like the rest of Texas. Take out Silicon Valley companies and their money and see how many EE's Austin employs.
 

amoeba

Diamond Member
Aug 7, 2003
3,162
1
0
supertool, your name is very fitting.

Silicon valley pay increase is due to cost of living. I had a chance to either work there for same money or work in TX for less and I chose to work in TX.

your hypothesis that Texas engineers are less competent is just silly.
 

shuan24

Platinum Member
Jul 17, 2003
2,558
0
0
good story AMDZen. This also begs the question, will you never stand up for yourself or property ever again? I think if you're willing to let others push you around and steal your stuff because you are afraid of the consequences, then to each his own.

I personally feel that yes, that would suck if you had pulled out a gun but you still got shot or worse killed, but to say that its better to let them take it and not stand up for yourself in that situation is to me worse.
 

Mo0o

Lifer
Jul 31, 2001
24,227
3
76
Originally posted by: shuan24
good story AMDZen. This also begs the question, will you never stand up for yourself or property ever again? I think if you're willing to let others push you around and steal your stuff because you are afraid of the consequences, then to each his own.

I personally feel that yes, that would suck if you had pulled out a gun but you still got shot or worse killed, but to say that its better to let them take it and not stand up for yourself in that situation is to me worse.

You'd rather get shot over a VCR?
 

amoeba

Diamond Member
Aug 7, 2003
3,162
1
0
Originally posted by: SuperTool
Originally posted by: beer
Originally posted by: SuperTool
You are basing that on numbers you pull out of where?
California EE's are more likely to find a job than Texas EE's.

What the fscsk did this thread turn into? You think we have an inherent lack of skill, because we're from Texas. That's bullsh!t and you just talking crap out of your ass. Silicon Valley EEs may get paid more, but there is a higher cost of living, and I don't think finding employment is hard for ANYONE where I go to school with! This should not be a pissing contest and should focus on the topic at hand.

Hey, you are the one who brought up EE's. Guess what I may move to Texas and keep my CA salary. Then you'll be my b!tch. :D
Stanford and Cal people aren't exactly suffering either. I don't have anything against UT Austin. But Austin is more like Silicon Valley than it is like the rest of Texas. Take out Silicon Valley companies and their money and see how many EE's Austin employs.


you are the most elitist person I have ever heard speak.

you are talking as if Silicon Valley companies are giving out charity by offering jobs in Austin. There obviously is a reason why they put their money in Austin. If Austin engineering was inferior like you state, then they wouldn't be here, plain and simple.

The entire premise of your hypothesis is contradictory.

by chance, what branch of EE do you work in?

 

aplefka

Lifer
Feb 29, 2004
12,014
2
0
This thread is interesting. I'm surprised to see some of the opinions here but have to say that I agree with a lot of them.
 

Hammer

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
13,217
1
81
Originally posted by: SuperTool
Originally posted by: beer
Originally posted by: SuperTool
You are basing that on numbers you pull out of where?
California EE's are more likely to find a job than Texas EE's.

What the fscsk did this thread turn into? You think we have an inherent lack of skill, because we're from Texas. That's bullsh!t and you just talking crap out of your ass. Silicon Valley EEs may get paid more, but there is a higher cost of living, and I don't think finding employment is hard for ANYONE where I go to school with! This should not be a pissing contest and should focus on the topic at hand.

Hey, you are the one who brought up EE's. Guess what I may move to Texas and keep my CA salary. Then you'll be my b!tch. :D
Stanford and Cal people aren't exactly suffering either. I don't have anything against UT Austin. But Austin is more like Silicon Valley than it is like the rest of Texas. Take out Silicon Valley companies and their money and see how many EE's Austin employs.

i hope you do come to texas... and try to break into my car. :D
 

shuan24

Platinum Member
Jul 17, 2003
2,558
0
0
Originally posted by: Mo0o
Originally posted by: shuan24
good story AMDZen. This also begs the question, will you never stand up for yourself or property ever again? I think if you're willing to let others push you around and steal your stuff because you are afraid of the consequences, then to each his own.

I personally feel that yes, that would suck if you had pulled out a gun but you still got shot or worse killed, but to say that its better to let them take it and not stand up for yourself in that situation is to me worse.

You'd rather get shot over a VCR?

I am assuming that is a rhetorical question. I'd rather not get shot at all.

But people get shot over money everyday, so given the opportunity to protect myself and not give in to the mercy of the robbers then yes, I would take it. I think once upon a time people would get robbed and not worry about getting shot afterward, but I think it has become a lot more prevalent that robbers simply shoot the victim after the robbery to ensure that they won't get caught.
 

Buck Armstrong

Platinum Member
Dec 17, 2004
2,015
1
0
Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie
Originally posted by: dabuddha
What if you mistakenly think they're breaking into your car? People who think rashly like yourself should not be carrying arms at all.

+1

Way to express a 'well thought out' opinion OP. You don't have the right to act as judge and jury; you do have the right to defend yourself. It shouldn't be different.

Exactly. So I think its alot more fair if you just shoot to immobilize until the cops get there to hand the real ass-beatin'.
 

91TTZ

Lifer
Jan 31, 2005
14,374
1
0
Originally posted by: AMDZen
Well as soon as my friend and all 4 of us exit, he shouts "hey thats my car what the fvkk u doin" at which point 2 of them look up and one puts his hand on a gun located in his pants. Typical mexican fashion. No offense at all, I've just seen this particular incident. See, we we're all so caught up in the moment, that we didn't even think about them having weapons. Nor will we ever make that mistake again.

Your mistake is that you came to a gunfight with your fists. If you confront an intruder, expect them to be armed. Invest in a shotgun.
 

Hammer

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
13,217
1
81
Originally posted by: 91TTZ
Originally posted by: AMDZen
Well as soon as my friend and all 4 of us exit, he shouts "hey thats my car what the fvkk u doin" at which point 2 of them look up and one puts his hand on a gun located in his pants. Typical mexican fashion. No offense at all, I've just seen this particular incident. See, we we're all so caught up in the moment, that we didn't even think about them having weapons. Nor will we ever make that mistake again.

Your mistake is that you came to a gunfight with your fists. If you confront an intruder, expect them to be armed. Invest in a shotgun.

listen to his man. the second he touch his gun, i would have turned his head into a canoe.
 

3chordcharlie

Diamond Member
Mar 30, 2004
9,859
1
81
Originally posted by: 91TTZ
Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie

Maybe I should be able to shoot jay-walkers? I mean they really piss me off, and sometimes I have to slow down my car while they cross in the middle of the block.

In fact, we should all just be able to shoot everyone, that'd be good...

If you can't differentiate between jaywalking and stealing a person's property as it pertains to this topic, you probably shouldn't be participating in this thread.

Are you fvcking kidding me? There is one important distinction to be made: are you in danger, or not? If you can't make that distinction, you definitely shouldn't be allowed to own a gun, and maybe should stick to safety scissors. Jaywalking costs me time, time may cost me money, 'stuff' costs me money. Same sh!t different pile, and none of it gives me the right to shoot someone.

If someone breaks into your house, I don't think you need to see a weapon to interpret that as a direct threat to yourself. The smartest thing to do might be leave and get help if possible, but if you're certain the person isn't supposed to be there (you're gonna feel like an idiot if you shoot your kid's friend that they invited over and left the door open for), go ahead and shoot them; their presence is enough of a threat to constitute danger to your person.

Someone stealing a car isn't a threat; most places do not have laws that allow you to practice justice on the spot, and I'm firmly in support of it staying that way.

 

91TTZ

Lifer
Jan 31, 2005
14,374
1
0
Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie

Are you fvcking kidding me? There is one important distinction to be made: are you in danger, or not? If you can't make that distinction, you definitely shouldn't be allowed to own a gun, and maybe should stick to safety scissors.

You are trying to argue without a point. The current law in Texas, as it's written, does NOT state that your life must be in danger to shoot someone. If they're stealing the bug zapper in your front yard, you can shoot them. Even if you are in no danger. In some states it works as you say, they have to be threatening your life. In other states, they only have to be taking your property.

Neither you nor I wrote that law, so there's no use arguing about it. Read it and accept it, or argue with the Texas politicians. But getting an attitude with me isn't going to change the law.
 

3chordcharlie

Diamond Member
Mar 30, 2004
9,859
1
81
Originally posted by: 91TTZ
Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie

Are you fvcking kidding me? There is one important distinction to be made: are you in danger, or not? If you can't make that distinction, you definitely shouldn't be allowed to own a gun, and maybe should stick to safety scissors.

You are trying to argue without a point. The current law in Texas, as it's written, does NOT state that your life must be in danger to shoot someone. If they're stealing the bug zapper in your front yard, you can shoot them. Even if you are in no danger.

Neither you nor I wrote that law, so there's no use arguing about it. Read it and accept it, or argue with the Texas politicians. But getting an attitude with me isn't going to change the law.
I don't live in Texas, though I see that the OP does; that's perfect, things are the way he wants them where he lives, and the way I want them where I live. Good enough.