It seems the US isn't going to lose its economic dominance

Sep 12, 2004
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Europe in recent weeks has witnessed the type of anti-U.S. gloating usually seen during the soccer World Cup, the quadrennial event in which the American team is routed in the early rounds. This year, the spectacle of highly paid American bankers falling on their faces is inspiring lectures from afar. The reckless pursuit of profits, a disdain for regulation, manic risk-taking?all characteristics of self-satisfied U.S.-style capitalism?has led to widespread embarrassment. The tsk-tsk-ing reached a new level with a recent cover story in the German newsweekly Der Spiegel: "The banking crisis is upending American dominance of the financial markets and world politics." The piece notes the delicious irony of the United States' having to nationalize parts of its financial system. "The Americans are now paying the price for their pride," it notes. "Gone are the days when the U.S. could go into debt with abandon." Gone, too, are the days of "turbo-capitalism" imposing its mores of "avarice and greed" on the global economy. No wonder schadenfreude?that lovely word meaning joy at other people's suffering?was coined in German.

But now the clog is on the other foot. In early October, the banking crisis mimicked Madonna?it went all Euro on us, and with a vengeance. Germany has been forced to bail out the nation's second-largest property lender. Iceland, whose financial system now swims with the fishes, has seized several banks. Britain unveiled an expensive plan to inject up to $88 billion of capital into proud financial institutions like Barclays. Several European countries have hastened to boost deposit insurance.

Some of the wooziness can be blamed on a virus that originated in the United States. But (I got your irony right here, Klaus) just as the American-ness of America's economic system led to our current woes, the European-ness of the continent's political and business culture is partly to blame for its current pickle. In fact, in many respects, Europe's banks have fared no better than their American cousins.

Der Spiegel noted with disapproval that "the total value of all outstanding mortgage loans in the United States?$11 trillion (?7.6 trillion)?is almost as large as the country's gross domestic product." Surely, the good burghers of Brussels and shopkeepers of England wouldn't be so foolish with debt, would they? But in Europe, "they embraced financial capitalism and leverage more than we did," says David Smick, founder of The International Economy magazine and author of "The World Is Curved." The assets of tiny Iceland's big banks were about 10 times the island nation's gross domestic product. Martin Wolf, the magisterial Financial Times commentator, noted that the combined assets of Britain's Big Five banks are four times the Sceptered Isle's GDP. The assets of JPMorgan Chase, the largest U.S. bank, add up to about 7 percent of America's annual output.

...
As many other countries take a massive economic dump right now and their real positions are made known, the US doesn't look quite so bad in comparison. Maybe that's why our currency is increasing in value by leaps and bounds recently against so many others? The US is still the best place to hedge your economic bet.

And despite the past proclamations of a few P&N tsk-tskers (Where have they been lately?), it doesn't appear that the US is losing economic dominance by any means. On the contrary...
 

Farang

Lifer
Jul 7, 2003
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I wish I could link it but it may have been a Newsweek article, basically said all of the West is losing influence over this so neither of us should be laughing at one another.
 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
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For us to lose dominance someone else would have to take our place.

As typical it is just Europeans throwing fits because of their inferiority complex.
 
Sep 12, 2004
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Originally posted by: Farang
I wish I could link it but it may have been a Newsweek article, basically said all of the West is losing influence over this so neither of us should be laughing at one another.
Who in the East is going to step up independently to weather this? The Eastern economies rely on Western consumerism.
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
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Originally posted by: Stoneburner
WOuld be looking to the far east rather than Curmudgeon central.

And for all the talk of the dawning of the Asian economic century (which may be a term I just made up now), they seem to be doing just as badly lately as anywhere else. Face it, we have a global economy now...and that's not just a neat turn of phrase.
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
0
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Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: Farang
I wish I could link it but it may have been a Newsweek article, basically said all of the West is losing influence over this so neither of us should be laughing at one another.
Who in the East is going to step up independently to weather this? The Eastern economies rely on Western consumerism.

Indeed. In fact you could argue that they are much weaker as a result, and more sensitive to ups and downs in the market. They do not have the base to drive their own markets anywhere, they can only follow...for the moment at least.
 

Farang

Lifer
Jul 7, 2003
10,913
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Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: Farang
I wish I could link it but it may have been a Newsweek article, basically said all of the West is losing influence over this so neither of us should be laughing at one another.
Who in the East is going to step up independently to weather this? The Eastern economies rely on Western consumerism.

It didn't say this would flip the powers but it was just an indication of where things were headed. Not much sense in arguing the point of the article if I can't find it, though.. found it somewhere on RCP.
 

Stoneburner

Diamond Member
May 29, 2003
3,491
0
76
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: Stoneburner
WOuld be looking to the far east rather than Curmudgeon central.

And for all the talk of the dawning of the Asian economic century (which may be a term I just made up now), they seem to be doing just as badly lately as anywhere else. Face it, we have a global economy now...and that's not just a neat turn of phrase.

Yeah but as somebody stated above, it's about relative positioning. Asia's set long term groundwork for ascendancy. No me rikey.
 
Sep 12, 2004
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Originally posted by: Farang
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: Farang
I wish I could link it but it may have been a Newsweek article, basically said all of the West is losing influence over this so neither of us should be laughing at one another.
Who in the East is going to step up independently to weather this? The Eastern economies rely on Western consumerism.

It didn't say this would flip the powers but it was just an indication of where things were headed. Not much sense in arguing the point of the article if I can't find it, though.. found it somewhere on RCP.
China is really the only valid potential economic competitor to the US. Until China can demonstrate some economic independence from the West and become something more than our sweatshops it's unlikely to even be an indication of where things are heading. That's not to mention that China has major infrastructure, population, poverty, and cultural issues to overcome before achieving anywhere close to that status.
 

Fox5

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2005
5,957
7
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Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: Farang
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: Farang
I wish I could link it but it may have been a Newsweek article, basically said all of the West is losing influence over this so neither of us should be laughing at one another.
Who in the East is going to step up independently to weather this? The Eastern economies rely on Western consumerism.

It didn't say this would flip the powers but it was just an indication of where things were headed. Not much sense in arguing the point of the article if I can't find it, though.. found it somewhere on RCP.
China is really the only valid potential economic competitor to the US. Until China can demonstrate some economic independence from the West and become something more than our sweatshops it's unlikely to even be an indication of where things are heading. That's not to mention that China has major infrastructure, population, poverty, and cultural issues to overcome before achieving anywhere close to that status.

China is growing it's own middle class at a pretty fast rate, despite all those problems. If things keep going the way they are, it'll be able to outsource to its poor areas and sell to its rich.
 

CanOWorms

Lifer
Jul 3, 2001
12,404
2
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The sheep on this forum should remember this. But I doubt they will. In a few weeks they will continue to claim the Europeans are our allies, conveniently ignoring that they wished for our destruction.
 

Stoneburner

Diamond Member
May 29, 2003
3,491
0
76
Originally posted by: CanOWorms
The sheep on this forum should remember this. But I doubt they will. In a few weeks they will continue to claim the Europeans are our allies, conveniently ignoring that they wished for our destruction.

This makes no sense. It's a bit more competitive biterness rather than outright violent hostility. Of course, you don't know that, nor do you care, you just want to bark :)
 

miketheidiot

Lifer
Sep 3, 2004
11,060
1
0
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: Farang
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: Farang
I wish I could link it but it may have been a Newsweek article, basically said all of the West is losing influence over this so neither of us should be laughing at one another.
Who in the East is going to step up independently to weather this? The Eastern economies rely on Western consumerism.

It didn't say this would flip the powers but it was just an indication of where things were headed. Not much sense in arguing the point of the article if I can't find it, though.. found it somewhere on RCP.
China is really the only valid potential economic competitor to the US. Until China can demonstrate some economic independence from the West and become something more than our sweatshops it's unlikely to even be an indication of where things are heading. That's not to mention that China has major infrastructure, population, poverty, and cultural issues to overcome before achieving anywhere close to that status.

brazil will be, if it can keep its shit together. Its much more resource rich than china.
 

miketheidiot

Lifer
Sep 3, 2004
11,060
1
0
Originally posted by: Stoneburner
Originally posted by: CanOWorms
The sheep on this forum should remember this. But I doubt they will. In a few weeks they will continue to claim the Europeans are our allies, conveniently ignoring that they wished for our destruction.

This makes no sense. It's a bit more competitive biterness rather than outright violent hostility. Of course, you don't know that, nor do you care, you just want to bark :)

you don't get CanofWorms.
 

CanOWorms

Lifer
Jul 3, 2001
12,404
2
0
Originally posted by: Stoneburner
Originally posted by: CanOWorms
The sheep on this forum should remember this. But I doubt they will. In a few weeks they will continue to claim the Europeans are our allies, conveniently ignoring that they wished for our destruction.

This makes no sense. It's a bit more competitive biterness rather than outright violent hostility. Of course, you don't know that, nor do you care, you just want to bark :)

It seems like you're the one who doesn't know.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,337
136
I'd rather the US kept its economic dominance in a wealthier, not poorer, world thank you very much.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
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Originally posted by: ProfJohn
For us to lose dominance someone else would have to take our place.

As typical it is just Europeans throwing fits because of their inferiority complex.

As typical it's just you embarrassing me on behalf of my country with your mindlessly hostile comments as an 'ugly American'.
 
Sep 12, 2004
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Originally posted by: Vic
I'd rather the US kept its economic dominance in a wealthier, not poorer, world thank you very much.
No doubt we all would like to see the world do nothing but continue to get wealthier and never go into a down cycle. We'd probably all rather be multi-millionaires too.

Realistically we know that neither of those things are going to happen.