It seems NVidia also have low performance in Max Payne 2

[DAPUNISHER]

I swear these threads do nothing but show me where the individuals with the personality/mentality profiles that lead to joining cults and drinking poison Koolaid in the 70's are gravitating in the 21st century

 

[Robor]

Originally posted by: Pete
DefRef,

Grow up.

I'll second that one... Man, every post I read by DefRef is filled with "fanchimp" and "fanATIc" references yet complains ATI owners are the ones pointing fingers. I've got three words... Pot, Kettle, Black

 

[DefRef]

Whew....what's that smell? Oh yeah, it's the nonstop BULLSH*T of Fanchimps in full spin mode. This reminds me of "debates" with liberals on another site I hang at - they act as if the ONLY people who are worthy of the term "patriot" are viciously anti-American nutcases like Michael Moore and the Dixie Chicks and cal anyone who disagrees with them "fascist".

The ATI fans here (and esp. at NVNews) turn EVERY thread into a Declaration of Personal Superiority due to their purchase of an ATI product. Their teeth are whiter, their coats shinier and their wangs doubled in size because they plunked down the green for some Canadian silicon. Then they go crazy and scream like little girls if anyone refuses to join thier Jonestown chorus of devotion and attack ruthlessly and tirelessly.

You're kinda like Apple maniacs.

I almost stopped reading right here:

this was Nvidia's decision; they made a bad judgement and have been suffering the consequences of falling behind ever since. Maybe not necessarily their hardware has been suffering, but as you can imagine Nvidia had to spend a company fortune to remake those failed FX cards. You make it sound like Nvidia is the victim, which is horribly wrong. People who bought those 450 dollar cards with the failed micron process were the victims.

...because there was so much Fanchimp raving, it boggled my mind that anyone could actually believe the garbage they were spewing, but then I remembered that Fanchimps exist in their own little fantasy universe.

First, since when has trying to improve processes been bad judgement? That's right! When Nvidia does it! Was it bad judgement when Intel moved to the .13 process, but had so much difficulty at first, they had to have each of their fab plants try a different method to get acceptable yields? Hell, under your skewed rules, Nvidia failed the moment they stopped using vacuum tubes for their cards. You'll notice that Nvidia made a deal with IBM to fab their chips after they got fooked by TSC. Blaming Nvidia for TSC's problems is like blaming Domino's because your local franchisee insists on burning every pizza into a cinder. Is it the companies fault that the factory f*cks up? According to ATI mavens, that's a big 10-4. Eventually ATI will shrink their dies, but since Nvidia already tripped over the landmines, they get a free ride - not that you'll cop to that.

Consequences? What consequences? Getting flamed 24/7 by people who would grease up and have relations with their ATI cards? Darn, they're so screwed, aren't they?

Next - "remaking failed cards" - uh, WTF are you talking about? Did I miss the recall of the FX series or are you trying to foist the idea that the NV40 is a desperate last-ditch effort to stave off oblivion? Everything's a conspiracy to you fools except ATI and Valve being in bed together, but I'll whallop that lie in a moment.

You call the customers victims, but did you bash ATI when Truform never took off or their cards weren't as fast as the premium Nvidia offerings? Of course not, because to do so would force you to acknowledge your current cultish mentality and you're not the bad guy, are you? No, not you!

Then you bring up the wang-measuring bit about how "slow" the FX is compared to your Lord and Savior ATI cards. You mention Halo, but ignore the comments of the developer that ATI is cheating and/or pooching the IQ. Why? Oh yeah, that's right - ATI = da godz! While Max Payne isn't as fast, it's not as if it's UNPLAYABLE on NV hardware, but then again, in NONE of my posts have I said that Nvidia was the fastest or bestest - I've merely tried to inject some reality into the discussion where the Fanchimps merely offer "Mine's bigger!" juvenille behavior.

Finally, you know your dealing with a Fanchimp when they blame the delay of Half-Life 2 on Nvidia. "O woe is us! We have to wait because Valve had to code for Nvidia!!!" Sez who? Sez the guy who took $6 million dollars from a company and then sacrificed their credibility on Shader Day by using drivers that they knew would be ineffective and then added slander to their presentation by accusing Nvidia of cheating. (Remember, if ATI cheats, it's a bug and if there's a bug in Nvidia drivers, it's gotta be a cheat!)

Once again, WHERE IS THE FRIGGIN' HL2 BENCHMARK?!?!? All of this noise could be put to rest if Valve would merely deliver what they promised a MONTH ago - we could run the tests, get the frame rates and check the IQ for ourselves and evaluate accordingly. (Anyone else notice the Fanchimp Catch-22 of blaming Nvidia for Valve's delays? If Nvidia has a glitch, they're lying and if Valve lies about their status, it's also Nvidia's fault. Everything is Nvidia's fault, including solar flares and Cali fires!) With the source theft and the subsequent revelations that ATI's name is all over the place, shouldn't you be wondering if they've got something to hide?

As for 32 vs. 24-bit processing, yes Nvidia went too good with their precision for the task at hand, but there may be a reason for that with their Quadro line being a big moneymaker and the demands of workstation video.

I've got work to do and trying to talk sense to the Fanchimps is useless. Sore winners that they are, they can't be satisfied with having the best card value at the moment. Nope, they've got to bind their manhood to their ATI products and God help them if the NV40 stomps the R400. I'M NOT SAYING IT WILL - that's Zombie behavior, but just trying to prepare them by asking them to consider where they'll be if the worm turns.

 

[reever]

So disregarding the part of your post which contains no real information or content....

Then you bring up the wang-measuring bit about how "slow" the FX is compared to your Lord and Savior ATI cards. You mention Halo, but ignore the comments of the developer that ATI is cheating and/or pooching the IQ. Why? Oh yeah, that's right - ATI = da godz!

So that's why there is no proof right? because they are cheating so bad and ar so good at it because of quack which was an actual bug in the first place?

Finally, you know your dealing with a Fanchimp when they blame the delay of Half-Life 2 on Nvidia. "O woe is us! We have to wait because Valve had to code for Nvidia!!!" Sez who?

Sorry but i looked through the thread and found this never to be said

Sez the guy who took $6 million dollars from a company and then sacrificed their credibility on Shader Day by using drivers that they knew would be ineffective and then added slander to their presentation by accusing Nvidia of cheating. (Remember, if ATI cheats, it's a bug and if there's a bug in Nvidia drivers, it's gotta be a cheat!)

Once again, what if Nvidia outbid ATI? Am I going to have to repeat myself on how Nvidia was also looking to buy the exclusive rights to HL2? Inneffective drivers? Excuse me, but every point they made about driver problems is still evident, even in the "official" forceware release. Maybe if Nvidia didn't blatently lie, cheat, and buy their way through the incident with Futuremark, nobody would be calling all of Nvidias driver problems cheats, everything is done with a reason.

(Anyone else notice the Fanchimp Catch-22 of blaming Nvidia for Valve's delays? If Nvidia has a glitch, they're lying and if Valve lies about their status, it's also Nvidia's fault. Everything is Nvidia's fault, including solar flares and Cali fires!)

Once again, please point me to a point in this thread where somebody was accusing Nvidia for the delay and didnt get flamed for it.

With the source theft and the subsequent revelations that ATI's name is all over the place, shouldn't you be wondering if they've got something to hide?

Yeah, delays always happend for no reason, and it's always because of an underlying shady business deal, never because of actual delays which happen with just about EVERY game. Now who is the one speculating and blaming people for delays?

As for 32 vs. 24-bit processing, yes Nvidia went too good with their precision for the task at hand, but there may be a reason for that with their Quadro line being a big moneymaker and the demands of workstation video.

PS precision is only a problem with DX9, which has not been embraced by the professional market fully yet, and even before DX9 was out, Nvidia still had a big lead in this market, so how do you suppose their big lead is because of Dx9 problems?

I've got work to do and trying to talk sense to the Fanchimps is useless.

And yet you still do it and spread your BS all across this board with no content, non technical discussion. Maybe if you didn't come off like a jackass calling people fanboys people wouldn't disregard everything you say

Sore winners that they are, they can't be satisfied with having the best card value at the moment.

There can't be sore winners without sore losers in denial.

Nope, they've got to bind their manhood to their ATI products and God help them if the NV40 stomps the R400

And when it does, IF it does, I would LOVE to see the hypocritical bullshit you will spread on this board

 

[Robor]

Originally posted by: DefRef
Whew....what's that smell? Oh yeah, it's the nonstop BULLSH*T of Fanchimps in full spin mode. This reminds me of "debates" with liberals on another site I hang at.. (snipped senseless rambling).

OMFG dude... I can't believe how strongly you feel about this "debate". IMO, you really need to get a life.

 

[Nuggs]

Sounds like defref is a 'fanchimp' himself, who really cars about the brend you just get the best value for your money at that time.

 

[Nuggs]

Sounds like defref is a 'fanchimp' himself, who really cars about the brand you just get the best value for your money at that time.

 

[Regs]

So let me get the part in your post that is on topic:

While Max Payne isn't as fast, it's not as if it's UNPLAYABLE on NV hardware, but then again, in NONE of my posts have I said that Nvidia was the fastest or bestest - I've merely tried to inject some reality into the discussion where the Fanchimps merely offer "Mine's bigger!" juvenille behavior.

Yes, this part I can agree with. Nivida does not offer low performance at all but actually good performance, however it does not offer the best performance. So I can see how this topic boiled you over. However if both video cards cost the same amount, while one offers the lesser performance, I would in deed recommend the card with the higher performance. That is just a fundamental buyers decision.


Two, I do not blame the delay of HL2 solely on Nvidia. I simply stated Valve himself had a hard time developing the game for Nvidia's hardware. This consequently started Valve to develop another code path for the FX cards. And no, developing another code path does not delay a game for 6+ months.

Three, try reading. Nivida lost a lot of money changing the architecture and getting low yields time and again with their "Leaf-blowers" that were produced. You do not need a recall on a product to lose money on the production line. On top of that you have the Microsoft X-Box deal that went sour, and then you get to see Nvidia get put on Forbes Magazine's most risky list for stock owners in the SIP 500 .

You are now starting to put your own words into other peoples mouths or in this case, messages.

 

[Viper96720]

If some think ATI is cheating with Max Payne 2. Just bench it with a previous driver like 3.7 or before. It can't have cheats or optimizations for a game that wasn't available when
the driver was. Heck even the current 3.8's came out before the game did. Sorry if this was posted before btw didn't read through the whole postings.

 

[McArra]

Originally posted by: Viper96720
If some think ATI is cheating with Max Payne 2. Just bench it with a previous driver like 3.7 or before. It can't have cheats or optimizations for a game that wasn't available when
the driver was. Heck even the current 3.8's came out before the game did. Sorry if this was posted before btw didn't read through the whole postings.

Very logical. I must agree.

 

[jiffylube1024]

Originally posted by: Nuggs
Sounds like defref is a 'fanchimp' himself, who really cars about the brand you just get the best value for your money at that time.

I agree with you, on both accounts .

 

[jiffylube1024]

Originally posted by: DefRef
Whew....what's that smell? Oh yeah, it's the nonstop BULLSH*T of Fanchimps in full spin mode. This reminds me of "debates" with liberals on another site I hang at - they act as if the ONLY people who are worthy of the term "patriot" are viciously anti-American nutcases like Michael Moore and the Dixie Chicks and cal anyone who disagrees with them "fascist".

If you think Michael Moore is "viciosly anti-American" then I think you've completely misinterpreted his message (however, that's for another time).

The ATI fans here (and esp. at NVNews) turn EVERY thread into a Declaration of Personal Superiority due to their purchase of an ATI product. Their teeth are whiter, their coats shinier and their wangs doubled in size because they plunked down the green for some Canadian silicon. Then they go crazy and scream like little girls if anyone refuses to join thier Jonestown chorus of devotion and attack ruthlessly and tirelessly.

You're kinda like Apple maniacs.

Nice rhetoric.

First, since when has trying to improve processes been bad judgement? That's right! When Nvidia does it! Was it bad judgement when Intel moved to the .13 process, but had so much difficulty at first, they had to have each of their fab plants try a different method to get acceptable yields?

Intel had to move to .13; the P4 was at a total standstill at .18um and AMD would have eaten them alive if Intel stuck with .13 for the next year and beyond. Once again a comparaison that is totally unjustified.

Moving to .13 was a bad idea (in hindsight) because it caused the delay of NV30 (the FX 5800U). If they stuck with .15 they would have had a card to battle with the Radeon 9700 during that long stretch before the FX came out. 3dfx acquiring STB seemed like a great idea at the time, certainly for both companies - they could reap extra profit from builiding the cards from top to bottom. However, in hisndsight, it was a horrible move.

Consequences? What consequences? Getting flamed 24/7 by people who would grease up and have relations with their ATI cards? Darn, they're so screwed, aren't they?

This is why we all want you to just change your tone or go away.

You call the customers victims, but did you bash ATI when Truform never took off or their cards weren't as fast as the premium Nvidia offerings? Of course not, because to do so would force you to acknowledge your current cultish mentality and you're not the bad guy, are you? No, not you!

No bias there

.

Then you bring up the wang-measuring bit about how "slow" the FX is compared to your Lord and Savior ATI cards. You mention Halo, but ignore the comments of the developer that ATI is cheating and/or pooching the IQ.

We've been over this.

Why? Oh yeah, that's right - ATI = da godz! While Max Payne isn't as fast, it's not as if it's UNPLAYABLE on NV hardware, but then again, in NONE of my posts have I said that Nvidia was the fastest or bestest - I've merely tried to inject some reality into the discussion where the Fanchimps merely offer "Mine's bigger!" juvenille behavior.

Name calling is the most juvenille of behaviour here, and you are unmatched in that department.

Finally, you know your dealing with a Fanchimp when they blame the delay of Half-Life 2 on Nvidia. "O woe is us! We have to wait because Valve had to code for Nvidia!!!" Sez who? Sez the guy who took $6 million dollars from a company and then sacrificed their credibility on Shader Day by using drivers that they knew would be ineffective and then added slander to their presentation by accusing Nvidia of cheating. (Remember, if ATI cheats, it's a bug and if there's a bug in Nvidia drivers, it's gotta be a cheat!)

We've been over this, but it was a nice last ditch attempt of a defense of your weak arguments. Too bad nobody brought it up.

Once again, WHERE IS THE FRIGGIN' HL2 BENCHMARK?!?!? All of this noise could be put to rest if Valve would merely deliver what they promised a MONTH ago - we could run the tests, get the frame rates and check the IQ for ourselves and evaluate accordingly. (Anyone else notice the Fanchimp Catch-22 of blaming Nvidia for Valve's delays? If Nvidia has a glitch, they're lying and if Valve lies about their status, it's also Nvidia's fault. Everything is Nvidia's fault, including solar flares and Cali fires!) With the source theft and the subsequent revelations that ATI's name is all over the place, shouldn't you be wondering if they've got something to hide?

Will you be touring the country next to show us how righteous Nvidia is in the face of the ATI opressors?

As for 32 vs. 24-bit processing, yes Nvidia went too good with their precision for the task at hand, but there may be a reason for that with their Quadro line being a big moneymaker and the demands of workstation video.

Typical fanboy response. Microsoft defined DirectX9 specs to have FP24. Nvidia tries to break the trend and it bites them in the @$$. In this generation of cards, 32-bit was not worth the sacrifice of 24-bit support.

I've got work to do and trying to talk sense to the Fanchimps is useless. Sore winners that they are, they can't be satisfied with having the best card value at the moment. Nope, they've got to bind their manhood to their ATI products and God help them if the NV40 stomps the R400. I'M NOT SAYING IT WILL - that's Zombie behavior, but just trying to prepare them by asking them to consider where they'll be if the worm turns.

Where do you come up with this stuff?

 

[Pete]

There was nothing revolutionary about the 9700 other than it being an efficient iteration of brute force architecture.

How did I miss this? Def Ref, get off your vitriolic ass and do some research before you spout off again and look more the fool. You don't think there's anything elegant in using one set of hardware for both integer and floating-point shading? How does that compare to having separate FX and FP units? What about coding into the VPU both gamma-correction and the ability for multiple AA sample positions (so that you can try them out and then set the ones that work best for most cases)? How does that compare to having to apply SS on top of MS AA to achieve comparable IQ (at a huge performance hit)?

There's nothing revolutionary about your position other than it being a contrarian iteration of brute force fanboyism.