IT peoples, what would you think about this career move?

[Insomniator]

How does one actually get a management job in IT? I've gone help desk (3 years) --> Sys Admin (3 years) and I'm wondering what I'd need to do in the next whatever # of years to set myself up for a shot at management somewhere. More education? Certs? Just a good resume with lots of experience?

 

[OutHouse]

who is still having to answer 11pm phone calls on friday night.

at my company managers are on the oncall rotation. does not matter if they are managing the helpdesk, telecom or sys admin. everybody gets to to be pager bitch for a week.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Ok let me rephrase, most of the good and dedicated sys admins generally move into mgmt positions. I don't know of any really good sys admins who did not move up in their career. Well, except for the guy who has been at the same place 12 years, with 3% raises every year, who is still having to answer 11pm phone calls on friday night.

I've known plenty of awesome system admins that didn't move into management positions because they simply aren't available. Also, more and more management positions are seeking MBAs.

Being an IT "manager" or "director" at a one or two person shop isn't a real management position, nor is becoming a PM.

 

[nageov3t]

tbh, I've had technical managers and I've had MBA managers, and I've actually preferred the MBA guy.

he took care of budgets, revenue generation, etc and generally had a hands-off policy when it came to micromanaging the day-to-day.

 

[seepy83]

It's critical for upper management to understand that it's not only bad for you, but also bad for the company to put someone in this sort of position.

I like seeing a well-rounded IT department. You need to use consultants for some of this stuff. The responsibility needs to be shared between desktop, network, and server people when at all possible. Your post describes at least a 2-man IT department.

A burned out IT person is terrible for a company. If it's the kind of place that doesn't support and respect their main IT person then you really should look elsewhere.

Not trying to get too far off-topic, but I agree with basically everything that you said. We do have a few vendors/consultants that I work with on larger projects and new implementations, but Management wants someone in-house (me) working hand in hand with them, and they want almost all of the daily maintenance/operations work to be handled in-house. They've been burned by bad/dishonest consultants in the past, so there is definitely a trust problem there.

The business's revenue is most closely correlated to the construction industry, which was slow to feel the effects of the recession but has also been much slower to pull itself out (at least around here). Six years ago we were a 4-man IT department and now we're down to one FTE (me), one 8 hour per week PTE.

We'll see how things go over the next 12-18 months. I'm confident we would have more staff if the money was there, so for now I'm just waiting to see how successful the business is at getting the revenue up.

 

[Gunslinger08]

tbh, I've had technical managers and I've had MBA managers, and I've actually preferred the MBA guy.

he took care of budgets, revenue generation, etc and generally had a hands-off policy when it came to micromanaging the day-to-day.

I really favor technical managers. They understand enough to filter some of the crap from ever reaching you. I have enough phone calls and emails everyday. My boss filters some of the basic stuff out by being technical himself.

 

[imagoon]

My question is why do IT people have to dress like frumps? Everyone else is at least business casual and they're in jeans and sneakers all the time and no one says peep about it.

When I am going around to sites, I am not destroying a button up and a pair of slacks crawling around in a network closet to replace a switch.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

I've known plenty of awesome system admins that didn't move into management positions because they simply aren't available. Also, more and more management positions are seeking MBAs.

Being an IT "manager" or "director" at a one or two person shop isn't a real management position, nor is becoming a PM.

If they enjoy the work then great, I'm not saying it's a bad thing, but in the context of this thread (someone asking whether or not to leave specialized IT) I think it's important to note the fact that as a regular sys admin you're going to hit a pay ceiling fairly quickly. You either accept the lower pay and are happy because you like the work, or you move upwards.

Regarding the 'real management position' it really depends on the role within the company.

Are you the final say in budgets, purchasing decisions, hiring/firing, yearly reviews, and have at least 2 "professional" reports who you primarily oversee on a management level? I would consider that management.

Are you 1 out of 2 guys doing similar helpdesk/maintenance type stuff, and you happen to be the senior person who does break/fix on servers? I would not say that's management in a personnel sense, although you might manage the IT functions for the company.



Really the conversation and thread should be broken down between large company and small company. Even though the pay is often similar (until you hit CTO/CIO), the roles and responsibilities are vastly different.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

When I am going around to sites, I am not destroying a button up and a pair of slacks crawling around in a network closet to replace a switch.

I think anyone in a professional environment should be routinely wearing khaki pants and polo shirt at bare minimum. If you can't crawl around a server room without ruining khakis and a shirt then you need to be less clumsy.

Casual friday is a different story, as is a day where you might have some specific 'dirty job'.

In 1995 sloppy IT guys were kept around because they were good. In 2014 sloppy IT guys are sloppy.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

How does one actually get a management job in IT? I've gone help desk (3 years) --> Sys Admin (3 years) and I'm wondering what I'd need to do in the next whatever # of years to set myself up for a shot at management somewhere. More education? Certs? Just a good resume with lots of experience?

Generally you want to see 3-4 years help desk, 3-4 years sys admin, a couple of years of a "senior" labelled position (which indicates you worked with a junior level).

At that point a lot of it is luck and good timing. As everyone says, management positions are tough to find, there are 4-5++ non-mgmt IT roles for every mgmt position.

My suggestion is to try and find a company that has a lot of turnover. Unfortunately these aren't always the best places to work, but it gives you an opportunity to get your feet wet. You also can learn what not to do.

The very best thing to see on a resume is someone who worked somewhere for 6-7 years and was constantly moving up.. Hired on as II level support, promoted to "senior" title, promoted to dept manager, that sort of thing.

If you want to work for large companies then certs/education/mba helps quite a bit.

If you want to work for small/medium companies then word of mouth is key. Make sure upper management and owners trust you. Work there, slowly moving up, for 6-7 years. Go to the owners and tell them you've enjoyed your time and are appreciative for what you've learned but are ready for management and more responsibility, can they help keep an ear out for business associates etc looking for someone like you. Offer to help train your replacement.


The biggest thing with IT is to not burn bridges. I suggest always giving 4 week notices, always make an effort to help hire/train your replacement, make 100% management knows you did your very best to leave everything in good order. The biggest black mark you can make for yourself in IT is screwing over a company. Word gets around in crazy ways, not to mention the lack of reference.

 

[Platypus]

Having done both in a past life, storage is more in demand in my experience and pays better. I've been out of that game for a bit and I still get daily LinkedIn spam with companies trying to throw money at me for storage gigs.

Both can pay well, but if you've been there 11 years you're probably getting ripped off in terms of salary based on personal experience.

It's probably time to do something else either way, but it depends on what you really want as your end goal.

On a personal level, I had to get out of that industry because it was literally killing me stress wise. I've worked in a diverse amount of companies all with different end goals but the stress is largely the same. If you enjoy the work then by all means go for it, but get paid well if you're going to do it. Life is far too short to be chained to your phone constantly.

 

[ForumMaster]

This comes from personal experience (I'm an Oracle DBA) but our storage guys have a massive infrastructure.

EMC+NetApp. (Clariion+Symterix+VNX+VMAX).

As an Oracle DBA, I specialized in Oracle, but also have to know basic:

• Linux
• SAN
• Storage
• Networking
• Server Hardware
• Troubleshooting
• Windows Administration

If you're in the same position, with the same company, are you sure you're not stuck professionaly? Is the company growing? If you're worried about your resume, I would take a look at the market vs what your company uses.

I'd still stay speciallized if salary is your thing.

 

[Vdubchaos]

its all about the benjamins

Not at all

Chasing benjamins can VERY easily force him to work long hours and weekends at a new job.....you should know about employers taking advantage of employees (out of all the people).

OP, you are the only one that can decide what's best for you. I think regardless what you choose you will be fine.

But whatever you do, don't chase the benjamins.....especially if you are in a good financial situation.

Life is far too short to be chained to your phone constantly.

This

If you can find an IT job that doesn't chain you to work and requires slave labor, more power to you.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

Not at all

Chasing benjamins can VERY easily force him to work long hours and weekends at a new job.....you should know about employers taking advantage of employees (out of all the people).

OP, you are the only one that can decide what's best for you. I think regardless what you choose you will be fine.

But whatever you do, don't chase the benjamins.....especially if you are in a good financial situation.

It's a balance.

Being properly paid is a hugely important morale issue. Even if basic needs are being met, an underpaid employee still feels worthless. Of course the flip side of this (and it's a major problem in IT) are people who feel like they are worth FAR more than they are. Also people who, no matter how much you pay them, it's never enough and they want more because "they deserve it".

In my opinion you're better off chasing a good company with good, solid management. It usually guarantees you'll be paid well and treated fairly.

 

[Scarpozzi]

It's good to leave your comfort zone, yes.... But consider your typical workload and daily stress. Consider your daily routine and freedoms.

If you leave your position, you can expect more variety and certainly the excitement of working with new systems and learning new technologies, but possibly more stress. Until you know the work environment, equipment, budget, and people, you can't easily decide if it's worth moving unless it pays significantly more.

If you're comfortable with your existing pay and benefits, stick around. One key is to compare the size of the business and whether or not you expect either to expand or shrink in the near future based on industry analysis.

I'm all for hanging in one place. I've seen guys go down the slippery slope of being the low man and being cut when the economy goes south. One guy was a great Unix admin who could only land 1-2 year contracts. He jumped from one company to another for over 7 years, never getting a permanent position and always chasing his prior paychecks as the industry was paying less and less. The end result were lapses in his employment and insurance coverage between contracts and overall lower pay (benefits + salary).

 

[SpatiallyAware]

Also very difficult to get full-time employment when you've done IT contracting job-hopping for that long. Those types of people will usually jump ship at the first 5% counter offer, so you have to consider them disposable.

 

[BoberFett]

If you're looking to move into management or project management, moving back to an IT generalist position might be OK. Otherwise you're better off continuing to specialize and improving your credentials.

 

[imagoon]

I think anyone in a professional environment should be routinely wearing khaki pants and polo shirt at bare minimum. If you can't crawl around a server room without ruining khakis and a shirt then you need to be less clumsy.

Casual friday is a different story, as is a day where you might have some specific 'dirty job'.

In 1995 sloppy IT guys were kept around because they were good. In 2014 sloppy IT guys are sloppy.

Network closet <> server room. We have 80 sites, some with multiple closets. If you would like to volunteer to go around and mop, vacuum, dust etc I am sure I can hook you up.

Black denim pants and collared shirt isn't exactly slumming it and is infinitely longer lasting than khakis.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Also very difficult to get full-time employment when you've done IT contracting job-hopping for that long. Those types of people will usually jump ship at the first 5% counter offer, so you have to consider them disposable.

Contractors job hop because their contracts end, not just because they're chasing more money. If you're a top IT technical talent, it almost always makes sense to go the contractor route because you generally make significantly more money even factoring in benefit cost. If you're married and your spouse has good benefits, it is even better.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

Contractors job hop because their contracts end, not just because they're chasing more money. If you're a top IT technical talent, it almost always makes sense to go the contractor route because you generally make significantly more money even factoring in benefit cost. If you're married and your spouse has good benefits, it is even better.

I hate beng the bearer of bad news, but fact is that this is not appealing to a full-time employer.

Absolutely it makes sense for the person, and I don't blame them for it, but it's tough to break the contract cycle once you get rolling.

 

[AznAnarchy99]

What's with this obsession about having to change jobs? What is wrong with working for a company for a long time? I don't get this mentality...

Stagnation. Some people like to push themselves to the next level and not be stuck and a lifer.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

I hate beng the bearer of bad news, but fact is that this is not appealing to a full-time employer.

As someone who has hired many people, I'd say it depends on many factors and you can't make such a blanket statement. If you're a rock star in my field for example (SharePoint), you will have no shortage of opportunities and by far, your best SharePoint people are the consultants, most of whom are contractors. Full-time employers generally don't want to pay people what they're worth, so they typically end up with subpar SharePoint resources or resources who will leave once they realize they have the skills to make awesome money as a consultant (like I did). You have to have a ton of OTHER skills above and beyond tech skills, however. You have to have people skills and PM skills too.

Now, in fairness, we may be talking about two different sets of employees here. I'm referring more to consultants and you're probably referring more to guys who are more or less staff augmentation contractors. I can maybe see your argument if that's the case, but when I did interview for infrastructure positions, someone who jumped from full-time employer to full-time employer was far more troublesome than a guy who worked multiple contracts over the course of a few years.

 

[Insomniator]

I hate beng the bearer of bad news, but fact is that this is not appealing to a full-time employer.

Absolutely it makes sense for the person, and I don't blame them for it, but it's tough to break the contract cycle once you get rolling.

Why is it so tough? I just started contracting after 5 years as full time. The other temp they hired with me (for the same job) is like 15 years older and says he's been contracting and hasn't been able to find a full time position in 7 years. I can't tell if its something 'wrong' with him, or if he's on that roll you speak of.

I feel like if I'm a good candidate... why would a year or two of contracting be such a bad sign? Especially with 5 years full time at my first job out of college.

 

[alkemyst]

its all about the benjamins

QFT...what's that salary? Is it secure?