It is possible that Islam has a better understanding of God than Christianity

[Matt1970]

We don't even know where the hell we came from yet we all think one way or the other that God exists? STFU and go back to work or whatever it was you were doing. These threads go nowhere but just fill up page after page of bickering about whoever thinks they have it all figured out but in reality you don't know didly. I don't know didly. Now everyone simmer the freak down before we piss off the guy holding the snow globe that we call our Universe and he decides to shake it up.

 

[davmat787]

We don't even know where the hell we came from yet we all think one way or the other that God exists? STFU and go back to work or whatever it was you were doing. These threads go nowhere but just fill up page after page of bickering about whoever thinks they have it all figured out but in reality you don't know didly. I don't know didly. Now everyone simmer the freak down before we piss off the guy holding the snow globe that we call our Universe and he decides to shake it up.

This. It would be nice if threads like this, that is of a religious nature, were not allowed in P&N. This forum is contentious enough as it is due to the nature of politics, which ironically is turning into a religion in and of itself to many.

I move for a separate sub forum for religion, anyone with me?

 

[sandorski]

Adam didn't fuck up, God did. Allegedly, God knows what's going to happen, yet it put a tree in the middle of the garden then told Adam not to eat the fruit on it. Sounds like the most epic troll of all time.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Islam though is more progressive in the sense that they do not actively go around calling other religions false and doomed like Christianity does.

Umm you have been brainwashed by the Muslims!!!

What_does_Islam_teach_about_tolerance_for_other_faiths
KORAN commands to kill infidels:
Allah is an enemy to unbelievers. - Sura 2:98
On unbelievers is the curse of Allah. - Sura 2:161
Slay them wherever ye find them and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. - 2:191

Nowhere does the Koran tell Muslims to Love infidels.......
******************************************************

What Does Islam Teach About Peace?

Before turning our attention to a discussion of violence, it seems prudent to first consider what Islam teaches about peace. The Qur'an, the holy book of Islam, commands Muslims to be at peace with one another, and declares peace upon all Allah's worshippers (Surah 6:54; Surah 27:59). The follower of Islam is to call to remembrance, "...the Favor of Allah bestowed upon you when you were enemies, and how He united your hearts, so that by His Favor you became brothers." (Surah 3:103) However, the true gauge of peace is not found in one's conduct toward those of like faith, but rather in the behavior shown to others.

Some texts in the Qur'an lead one to believe that Muslims and non-Muslims are able to co-exist peacefully. To express the tolerant nature of Islam, it is written, "There is no compulsion in religion..." (Surah 2:256) Furthermore, followers of Islam are commanded to return peace for peace to those who are unbelievers. (Surah 4:90; Surah 8:61).

Though peace is charged, it is easily displaced by intolerance, hatred and warring. The Qur'an instructs, "Fight those who neither believe in Allah nor the Last Day, who do not forbid what Allah and His Messenger have forbidden, and do not embrace the religion of the truth, being among those who have been given the Book (Bible and the Torah), until they pay tribute out of hand and have been humiliated." (Surah 9:29)

In the very texts which incite peace, the Muslim is commanded to "...restrain their hands, take them and kill them wherever you find them." (Surah 4:91) And again, "...O Prophet, urge the believers to fight. If there are twenty patient men among you, you shall overcome two hundred, and if there are a hundred, they shall overcome a thousand, for they are a nation who do not understand." (Surah 8:65)

It is confusing, even distressing to see such extreme disagreement. Peace and war are commanded in the same text, upon the same people. However, the Qur'an permits itself the right of abrogation. "If We supersede any verse or cause it to be forgotten, We bring a better one or one similar. Do you not know that Allah has power over all things!" (Surah 2:106)

A command which is given (i.e., to be peaceful to 'unbelievers'), may be supplanted by a subsequent direction (i.e., to kill 'unbelievers'). And indeed, the frequency of commands to deal peacefully and with forbearance fails in comparison to those which provoke fighting, killing and destruction upon unbelievers.

 

[Abwx]

Umm you have been brainwashed by the Muslims!!!

Indeed , even you were....

Abū Rayhān al-Bīrūnī, an Islamic scholar and polymath scientist, understood natural law as the law of the jungle. He argued that the antagonism between human beings can only be overcome through a divine law, which he believed to have been sent through prophets. This is also the position of the Ashari school, the largest school of Sunni theology.[72] Averroes (Ibn Rushd), in his treatise on Justice and Jihad and his commentary on Plato's Republic, writes that the human mind can know of the unlawfulness of killing and stealing and thus of the five maqasid or higher intents of the Islamic sharia or to protect religion, life, property, offspring, and reason. The concept of natural law entered the mainstream of Western culture through his Aristotelian commentaries, influencing the subsequent Averroist movement and the writings of Thomas Aquinas.[73]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_law

 

[shira]

Is this a faith based belief, or do you have support for this? Remember, faith is belief without support (commonly called proof).

Why don't you explain to us why concluding that something for which there is no physical evidence does not exist is "faith based?" By comparison, there's no physical evidence for an invisible anti-Earth on the opposite side of the Sun, yet I doubt very much you would characterize the claim that no such invisible anti-Earth exists as "faith based." And if you do, you render all serious discussion of empirically-based knowledge meaningless.

There's a major difference between accepting that almost all scientific knowledge has elements of faith, however small, and characterizing such knowledge as "faith based." But you disingenuously lump together ALL knowledge under that label in order to obfuscate meaningful distinctions.

Sorry, but the absence of evidence is often evidence of absence. And there's no evidence for the existence of God.

 

[Karl Agathon]

Islam though is more progressive in the sense that they do not actively go around calling other religions false and doomed like Christianity does.

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

Then you are admitting you are holding a faith based belief.

Which a posteriori beliefs of yours do you think are not faith based?

 

[micrometers]

Adam didn't fuck up, God did. Allegedly, God knows what's going to happen, yet it put a tree in the middle of the garden then told Adam not to eat the fruit on it. Sounds like the most epic troll of all time.

Right. From what I can tell the belief in a real metaphysical hell as a punishment for sin is something that really is unique to Christianity, at least in the emphasis.

 

[micrometers]

Why the last qualifier "for the people that they are revealed to"? and what sense does that have at present? Are they not as well or better revealed to us in this day through internationalization and accessibility of literature than they were originally but to a few?

If you give any credence to that point, I think you should dive into it and its conclusions, one of which is necessarily that there is no validity in the notion of comparative validity of religions, at least with reference to the core of religions distinguished from the cultural and historical embellishments.

last qualifier of who they are revealed to? I'd guess that Islam would say that God is revealed to all peoples and you can see it in their various religions.

I've heard of like old-time native Americans who are unhappy to this day that white settlers would accuse them of demon worship for following their religion. If you go by the logic of fundamentalist Christianity, a huge number of peoples were condemned to hell because they never accepted Jesus. Even people born before Jesus, or people who had never heard of him.

Islam would be more accommodating of native american religions, I think.

 

[PingviN]

The only true religion will be the one that openly admits that all religions are correct. I dont think I will see that day.

Buddhism?

 

[dmcowen674]

I Am

 

[Kadarin]

Given that "God" is an entirely fictional concept made up by people, with no evidence whatsoever to support its existence, EVERYONE's understanding of God is equally invalid.

 

[silverpig]

Umm you have been brainwashed by the Muslims!!!

What_does_Islam_teach_about_tolerance_for_other_faiths
KORAN commands to kill infidels:
Allah is an enemy to unbelievers. - Sura 2:98
On unbelievers is the curse of Allah. - Sura 2:161
Slay them wherever ye find them and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. - 2:191

Nowhere does the Koran tell Muslims to Love infidels.......
******************************************************

Maybe not love, but forgive and overlook:

2:109 Quite a number of the People of the Book wish they could Turn you (people) back to infidelity after ye have believed, from selfish envy, after the Truth hath become Manifest unto them: But forgive and overlook, Till Allah accomplish His purpose; for Allah Hath power over all things.

Also, some context for some of your quotes (you can do the same in the Bible by the way):

2:190 Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loveth not transgressors.

2:191 And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith.

2:192 But if they cease, Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

2:193 And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression and there prevail justice and faith in Allah; but if they cease, let there be no hostility except to those who practise oppression.

 

[DoctorA]

Christianity, done properly (before the Constantine alterations), is Judaism with the belief the Messiah is Jesus,

Actually, The Islamic view of Jesus lies between two extremes.
1- The Jews, who rejected Jesus as a prophet, called him an imposter,
2- while the Christians, on the other hand, considered him to be the son of God and worship him as such.

Islam considers Jesus to be one of the greatest and most forbearing of prophets, in addition to Noah, Abraham, Moses and Muhammad, may God praise them. Jesus is also considered to be the Messiah as well. This is in conformity with the Islamic view of the Oneness of God, the Oneness of Divine guidance, and the complementary role of the subsequent mission of God’s messengers. The message of God to humanity, which is to worship God and God alone and to live according to His instruction, was revealed to Adam (peace be upon him), who passed it on to his children. All the subsequent revelations to Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus, and, finally, Muhammad are in conformity with that message.
Another point is many people have no idea that Jesus was mentioned in quran more than Muhammad himself.
http://www.islamawareness.net/Christianity/christ_in_islam.html

Islam's take of God is that there is one God which created the world and that he has sent various prophets and holy men through the centuries to different people across the world, revealing himself through them. So they would include all the various holy persons throughout the world, from Jesus to Buddha to Moses, etc. And they are all equally valid for the people that they are revealed to.

Islam is specific to the Arabs (though others are free to convert) and is about surrender to the one true god which was revealed to man from the beginning. In many ways it resembles to me efforts by progressive Christians to find the meaning of "early christianity".

On a purely theological level, ignoring society and so forth, I think it may be the best understanding of monotheism of the three, since it is more pluralistic and in many ways the acceptance of other "prophets" as manifestations of God would be how I would do monotheism if I really were to take it seriously.

1-The Qur'an mentions the following prophets by name: Adam, Nuh, Ibrahim, Isma'il, Ishaq, Lut, Ya'qub, Yusuf, Musa, Harun, Dawud, Sulaiman, Ilyas, Al-Yasa', Yunus, Ayyub, Zakariya, Yahya, 'Isa, Idris, Hud, Dhul Kifl, Shu'aib, Salih, Luqman, Dhul Qarnain, 'Uzair, Muhammad. This does not mean, however, that only these have been God's prophets. Indeed the Qur'an is very clear that the number of prophets is much larger and that to each community from among mankind God has sent His messenger:
'We did aforetime send apostles before thee: of them there are some whose story We have related to thee and some whose story We have not related to thee ...' (40:78).
'To every people (was sent) an apostle ...' (10: 47).
may me that's why i've heard it was found many prophecies regarding the last prophet , Muhammad, in hindu, jewish, buddism etc


2- It's stated in quran, Islam is for thr whole mankind, arabs r about 20% of muslims.
http://www.load-islam.com/artical_det.php?artical_id=274&section=indepth&subsection=Misconceptions


3- Actually, Christ himself never knew that trinity !
http://www.harunyahya.com/en/books/4458/Prophet_Jesus_(pbuh)_A_Prophet_Not_A_Son_Of_God/chapter/4765

Also, some context for some of your quotes (you can do the same in the Bible by the way):

2:190 Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loveth not transgressors.

2:191 And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith.

2:192 But if they cease, Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

2:193 And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression and there prevail justice and faith in Allah; but if they cease, let there be no hostility except to those who practise oppression.

This site have selected and quoted the verses/narrations in the way that they are circulated by the Islam-haters, so that the poor translation and other deceptive tactics of the Islam-Haters may be exposed.
http://www.aboutjihad.com/terrorism/quran_misquote_part_1.php

 

[deathstorm78]

I move for a separate sub forum for religion, anyone with me?

I think this would be a great idea.

 

[silverpig]

I think this would be a great idea.

Yeeeeeah, we're gonna need you to go ahead and move down to the basement...

 

[Ausm]

This. It would be nice if threads like this, that is of a religious nature, were not allowed in P&N. This forum is contentious enough as it is due to the nature of politics, which ironically is turning into a religion in and of itself to many.

I move for a separate sub forum for religion, anyone with me?

I think you have a point and it should be titled "who gives a fuck".

 

[kage69]

Given that "God" is an entirely fictional concept made up by people, with no evidence whatsoever to support its existence, EVERYONE's understanding of God is equally invalid.

/thread

 

[child of wonder]

Is it possible both Islam and Christianity worship a being that doesn't exist and are wasting their lives by doing so?

 

[Londo_Jowo]

I move for a separate sub forum for religion, anyone with me?

Agree, I also think the Palestinian - Israeli or Israeli - Palestinian threads should be placed in there as well.

 

[HumblePie]

All you religious nut bags are... nut bags.

My interpretation of X religious idea is better than yours! If you don't think so well here's a bomb and have a nice day.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Is it possible both Islam and Christianity worship a being that doesn't exist and are wasting their lives by doing so?

Is it possible that atheists are wrong and are wasting their lives?

 

[PrinceofWands]

Of course it's possible. It's possible any group has the 'right' idea. It's possible none do. There's no way to know, which is why nothing that affects anything beyond the individual believer can ever be allowed sway with regards to religion (ie no place in government, society, etc). Belief is between you and your deity, leave everyone and everything else out of it.

 

[sandorski]

Is it possible that atheists are wrong and are wasting their lives?

It's possible everybody is wrong.