It Has Begun!

[Viper1j]

62M Americans demonstrated they didn't have any when they voted for Trump in the first place. The world's greatest con artiste would have fucked with their minds even if his tax returns had been made public. When the billionaire candidate bragged on national TV that he didn't pay federal income tax because he was smart they actually admired him for it. Their headsets were pre-fucked, corrupted by decades of right wing agitprop & disinformation.

I'll buy that for a dollar. But elections aren't won solely by inbred Nazis. He got a lot of disgruntled swing votes too. They would be the ones to run away from him if his returns were released. Plus convicted felons can't hold office. One little tax evasion conviction would sink his ship, no matter how many wanted him in.

 

[Jhhnn]

I'll buy that for a dollar. But elections aren't won solely by inbred Nazis. He got a lot of disgruntled swing votes too. They would be the ones to run away from him if his returns were released. Plus convicted felons can't hold office. One little tax evasion conviction would sink his ship, no matter how many wanted him in.

As a sitting President Trump is immune to indictment. If he's ever convicted of anything it will be after he's out of office, the sooner the better.

Most everybody who voted for Trump got conned, one way or another. We'll see how many are kept in thrall long enough to vote for him again. If he lasts that long.

 

[ondma]

Why not just run a good candidate and win the election? Just pick someone reasonably intelligent, well spoken, and not to far left of center. There just isn't any need for foolishness that will end up backfiring.

Exactly what I was going to say.
The election is the Dem's to lose. And considering all the infighting and far left candidates popping out of the woodwork, they could be well on the way to doing just that.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Exactly what I was going to say.
The election is the Dem's to lose. And considering all the infighting and far left candidates popping out of the woodwork, they could be well on the way to doing just that.

Hey I laughed at the Republican Clown car and infighting
Worked out pretty good though...

 

[ondma]

Hey I laughed at the Republican Clown car and infighting
Worked out pretty good though...

Well, for the republicans at least.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Well, for the republicans at least.

and Russians

 

[ondma]

It is a serious problem, but as someone else said, there is no easy answer. I would be interested in hearing Porter propose a solution, instead of just attacking Chase (not that it isnt warranted). Much easier to simply point out a problem than to propose a solution that is at least somewhat fair and equitable.

Other than having the government actually set wages or just give money to those who are struggling, the only way I see to address it is through tax policy. Perhaps raise taxes in the higher brackets and lower the rates in the lower brackets. Maybe provide a direct tax credit for child care expenses and a portion of housing costs (based on reasonable housing costs by region)? But even if enough tax credits were given to reduce the federal tax to 0, I am not sure that would be enough.

 

[ondma]

As a sitting President Trump is immune to indictment. If he's ever convicted of anything it will be after he's out of office, the sooner the better.

Most everybody who voted for Trump got conned, one way or another. We'll see how many are kept in thrall long enough to vote for him again. If he lasts that long.

I keep hearing this, but it is certainly not that simple. Some people got conned, yes. Mostly the middle class that thought he was going to bring back well paying industrial/manufacturing jobs in the heartland, and provide a cheap affordable alternative to Obama care.
But lets face it, a lot of people got just what they wanted. The gun lobby, big business and wealthy individuals, his racist/homophobic base, and the anti-abortion/evangelical lobby, to name a few.

 

[ivwshane]

I keep hearing this, but it is certainly not that simple. Some people got conned, yes. Mostly the middle class that thought he was going to bring back well paying industrial/manufacturing jobs in the heartland, and provide a cheap affordable alternative to Obama care.
But lets face it, a lot of people got just what they wanted. The gun lobby, big business and wealthy individuals, his racist/homophobic base, and the anti-abortion/evangelical lobby, to name a few.

I think what a lot of them wanted more than what you listed were supreme court appointments. The goal of the 40% is to change the constitution to get us back to the point where white land owners were in charge and everyone else didn't have any say. They see things like the 14th amendment as illegitimate and a thorn in their plan. Its an agenda they've been pushing since at least Reagan with the appointment of federalist society members to the supreme court whose agenda is to reinterpret/pervert the constitution and laws to achieve their goals.

They've been indoctrinated/brainwashed for decades now and it will only get worse.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

The indications of Trump's misdeeds and wrongdoing are so numerous, the opposition should explore every single possible means of denying him as many days as possible in the White House, and slapping his Base in the Freaking Face.

All the backups need a backup, and this is another backup plan. It's nice to see those states moving forward with it.

It enrages me that the various state GOP elements are against it. If it was traditional for candidates and officeholders to bare their tax returns, there's nothing wrong with it at all.

And who the hell thinks a public official's tax returns should be kept private? It's absurd, if the IRS is supposed to monitor those returns, and the officeholder has any chance of making sure it doesn't happen, that there should be a legal requirement and total disclosure.

I challenge just one, Right-wing forum member to even try and make a case for the opposite point of view. There is no case. None whatever.

You see, this all derives from the Rightist view that taxes are all about altruism. They aren't about altruism -- not at all. They are about citizen obligation. Therefore, public officials' tax returns are not private. They are public.

 

[Greenman]

The indications of Trump's misdeeds and wrongdoing are so numerous, the opposition should explore every single possible means of denying him as many days as possible in the White House, and slapping his Base in the Freaking Face.

All the backups need a backup, and this is another backup plan. It's nice to see those states moving forward with it.

It enrages me that the various state GOP elements are against it. If it was traditional for candidates and officeholders to bare their tax returns, there's nothing wrong with it at all.

And who the hell thinks a public official's tax returns should be kept private? It's absurd, if the IRS is supposed to monitor those returns, and the officeholder has any chance of making sure it doesn't happen, that there should be a legal requirement and total disclosure.

I challenge just one, Right-wing forum member to even try and make a case for the opposite point of view. There is no case. None whatever.

You see, this all derives from the Rightist view that taxes are all about altruism. They aren't about altruism -- not at all. They are about citizen obligation. Therefore, public officials' tax returns are not private. They are public.

Of course there is a case to be made. It's not required that a candidate release his personal financial information to run for office. That's it, that's the case. Trump is in complete compliance with the law on this issue. The other thing to note is that most people don't want to see his returns, they want an audit. They want to trace every dollar back to it's originator, and they want to know Trumps net worth. Tax forms don't ask your net worth, they only deal with your income.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

Of course there is a case to be made. It's not required that a candidate release his personal financial information to run for office. That's it, that's the case. Trump is in complete compliance with the law on this issue. The other thing to note is that most people don't want to see his returns, they want an audit. They want to trace every dollar back to it's originator, and they want to know Trumps net worth. Tax forms don't ask your net worth, they only deal with your income.

Except that no that's not what "most people" want.

"Most people" want to know the origins of his funds. Where might he have conflicts of interest. Who is he indebted to. How much is he profiting from the office he holds.

You can try and dismiss it by claiming most people only want to know what he's worth but you'd be wrong.

 

[Viper1j]

Of course there is a case to be made. It's not required that a candidate release his personal financial information to run for office. That's it, that's the case. Trump is in complete compliance with the law on this issue. The other thing to note is that most people don't want to see his returns, they want an audit. They want to trace every dollar back to it's originator, and they want to know Trumps net worth. Tax forms don't ask your net worth, they only deal with your income.

No. They want confirmation that Donny is what everyone really knows he is, but is afraid to say it aloud.

A Russian Asset, if not an actual covert Russian spy.

I'll admit.. President Putin has his good points, I just think he could have picked a better branch manager to run his US day to day operations.

Donny is just too much "in your face" for most normal people to tolerate.

 

[fskimospy]

Of course there is a case to be made. It's not required that a candidate release his personal financial information to run for office. That's it, that's the case. Trump is in complete compliance with the law on this issue. The other thing to note is that most people don't want to see his returns, they want an audit. They want to trace every dollar back to it's originator, and they want to know Trumps net worth. Tax forms don't ask your net worth, they only deal with your income.

How is that a case to be made? It is not currently required that a candidate release their personal financial information to be on a state's ballot, but that's exactly what would be changed. If that happens and Trump does not supply his tax returns he will no longer be in compliance with the law.

Is your idea that the law would be somehow unconstitutional? Unlike with the election of House reps or Senators the states are explicitly granted plenary authority to determine the manner in which they choose their presidential electors. They could pass a law cancelling the presidential election entirely, saying that all electors will be awarded to the Democratic nominee if they wanted. They could award their electors based on who had the funniest name or who took the governor's daughter to prom.

There is simply zero federal power to intervene in this case absent something like a 1st or 14th amendment violation. Requiring people to show their financial conflicts of interest comes nowhere near any of this.