It’s time to bring down more statues

[realibrad]

I will believe you are serious OP when you post a video of you burning all those Jacksons and Washingtons you carry in your wallet. Make it bonfire sized, don't weasel out.

Huh? The OP is saying we should not do it.

 

[FerrelGeek]

Sigh. As usual, the voice of the liberal - 'we're never wrong about anything'. I'm a firm believer in preserving our history: the good, the bad, and the ugly. If we sanitize it to spare the feelings of the easily offended, we will lose a sense of who we were and where we've come from: the good, the bad, and the ugly. I have no more desire that you do to glorify the dark parts of our past, but I don't want to blot them out of our modern consciousness either because the past bothers some people. Is that such a bad thing? I happen to be proud of my progenitors from that time period. I have an ancestor on my father's side that was a captain in the Union army. On my maternal grandfather's side, there were abolitionists that actively helped runaway slaves on the underground railroad. My mom got to see the place where they hid the slaves when she visited them when she was a little girl.

Tell people our history - the whole truth.

Seems like the angsty people here are the entitled individuals who think the rest of the community is obligated to spend its tax dollars on building and maintaining monuments to their ancestors' enslavement.

If people want monuments to slavery so badly, build them with their own money on their own property. That's reasonable, no?

 

[Veliko]

Sigh. As usual, the voice of the liberal - 'we're never wrong about anything'. I'm a firm believer in preserving our history: the good, the bad, and the ugly. If we sanitize it to spare the feelings of the easily offended, we will lose a sense of who we were and where we've come from: the good, the bad, and the ugly. I have no more desire that you do to glorify the dark parts of our past, but I don't want to blot them out of our modern consciousness either because the past bothers some people. Is that such a bad thing? I happen to be proud of my progenitors from that time period. I have an ancestor on my father's side that was a captain in the Union army. On my maternal grandfather's side, there were abolitionists that actively helped runaway slaves on the underground railroad. My mom got to see the place where they hid the slaves when she visited them when she was a little girl.

Tell people our history - the whole truth.

What does any of this have to do with taking down statues?

 

[fskimospy]

Sigh. As usual, the voice of the liberal - 'we're never wrong about anything'. I'm a firm believer in preserving our history: the good, the bad, and the ugly. If we sanitize it to spare the feelings of the easily offended, we will lose a sense of who we were and where we've come from: the good, the bad, and the ugly. I have no more desire that you do to glorify the dark parts of our past, but I don't want to blot them out of our modern consciousness either because the past bothers some people. Is that such a bad thing? I happen to be proud of my progenitors from that time period. I have an ancestor on my father's side that was a captain in the Union army. On my maternal grandfather's side, there were abolitionists that actively helped runaway slaves on the underground railroad. My mom got to see the place where they hid the slaves when she visited them when she was a little girl.

Tell people our history - the whole truth.

I am unclear about what part of telling people the whole truth of our history requires large numbers of monuments built on public grounds with public money that glorify people who committed treason in order to fight for the right to own people as property. How about we tell people our whole history in history books and in museums instead? That way we can tell people our whole history instead of placing propaganda in our public squares as these monuments currently do.

The idea that statues honoring monsters like Nathan Bedford Forrest somehow contribute to telling people our history is absurd on its face. You don't see Germany putting up statues honoring Hitler and Goebbels to ensure their whole history is told. And yes, comparisons between the Confederacy and the Nazis are appropriate.

 

[deathBOB]

Sigh. As usual, the voice of the liberal - 'we're never wrong about anything'. I'm a firm believer in preserving our history: the good, the bad, and the ugly. If we sanitize it to spare the feelings of the easily offended, we will lose a sense of who we were and where we've come from: the good, the bad, and the ugly. I have no more desire that you do to glorify the dark parts of our past, but I don't want to blot them out of our modern consciousness either because the past bothers some people. Is that such a bad thing? I happen to be proud of my progenitors from that time period. I have an ancestor on my father's side that was a captain in the Union army. On my maternal grandfather's side, there were abolitionists that actively helped runaway slaves on the underground railroad. My mom got to see the place where they hid the slaves when she visited them when she was a little girl.

Tell people our history - the whole truth.

Keeping statutes that were put up to remind black people of their place long after the civil war is not in any way “preserving our history”

 

[brycejones]

Sigh. As usual, the voice of the liberal - 'we're never wrong about anything'. I'm a firm believer in preserving our history: the good, the bad, and the ugly. If we sanitize it to spare the feelings of the easily offended, we will lose a sense of who we were and where we've come from: the good, the bad, and the ugly. I have no more desire that you do to glorify the dark parts of our past, but I don't want to blot them out of our modern consciousness either because the past bothers some people. Is that such a bad thing? I happen to be proud of my progenitors from that time period. I have an ancestor on my father's side that was a captain in the Union army. On my maternal grandfather's side, there were abolitionists that actively helped runaway slaves on the underground railroad. My mom got to see the place where they hid the slaves when she visited them when she was a little girl.

Tell people our history - the whole truth.

Sigh is right.

Do you really get your history from statues?

 

[Zorba]

Sigh. As usual, the voice of the liberal - 'we're never wrong about anything'. I'm a firm believer in preserving our history: the good, the bad, and the ugly. If we sanitize it to spare the feelings of the easily offended, we will lose a sense of who we were and where we've come from: the good, the bad, and the ugly. I have no more desire that you do to glorify the dark parts of our past, but I don't want to blot them out of our modern consciousness either because the past bothers some people. Is that such a bad thing? I happen to be proud of my progenitors from that time period. I have an ancestor on my father's side that was a captain in the Union army. On my maternal grandfather's side, there were abolitionists that actively helped runaway slaves on the underground railroad. My mom got to see the place where they hid the slaves when she visited them when she was a little girl.

Tell people our history - the whole truth.

Should Germany be building statues to Hitler? Because doing that today would be closer to him historically than when most of these statues were built, and they are continuing to be built.

 

[fskimospy]

Sigh is right.

Do you really get your history from statues?

Don't worry then, he can get his history from plaques like this which totally aren't propaganda or anything:

 

[brycejones]

Don't worry then, he can get his history from plaques like this which totally aren't propaganda or anything:

How can we ever question that. Its on a plaque and everything.

/s

 

[paperfist]

Sigh is right.

Do you really get your history from statues?

Yeah cause opposed to getting it from an online source it's actually real and unedited.

 

[Jhhnn]

The disagreement is that people in the south see the statues of people fighting for southern rights. You and I see the war as trying to keep slavery. If we say the generals were bad and putting up statues is promoting bad people, then it will get dismissed. That is because those in the south see the war as something overall good with some bad parts, and, the leaders overall good even if they had some bad parts. Thats why you see other people like Washington brought up, because, he too was overall good but had some bad parts.

So if you get them to accept the reality of what the situation really was, you circumvent their whole argument.

War was about slavery.
Those statues were of people fighting to keep slavery.
Statues were built well after the war because they wanted to remind people of the superior race.

If you go about it without fixing that first part, then it becomes...

War was about southern rights mostly.
Statues were in honor of those that were willing to fight for rights.
The statues went up after the war, but are still symbols of good ideas even if the people are imperfect.

I seriously doubt that many southerners accept the revisionist history that the Civil War wasn't about slavery. They know what those generals fought for- the right of southern states to keep slavery. They also know that those monuments were erected as potent symbols of Jim Crow & segregation, what former slavers managed to salvage after the war.

That's why we don't see many actually protesting removal at all. The New South is ready to move on but there are remnants of the Old South still doing their thing. The only people who show up to protest removal are the White supremacists & Nazis.

 

[pmv]

Seems like the angsty people here are the entitled individuals who think the rest of the community is obligated to spend its tax dollars on building and maintaining monuments to their ancestors' enslavement.

If people want monuments to slavery so badly, build them with their own money on their own property. That's reasonable, no?

Subject to the approval of any relevant home owners assocation, no?

 

[Zorba]

The disagreement is that people in the south see the statues of people fighting for southern rights. You and I see the war as trying to keep slavery. If we say the generals were bad and putting up statues is promoting bad people, then it will get dismissed. That is because those in the south see the war as something overall good with some bad parts, and, the leaders overall good even if they had some bad parts. Thats why you see other people like Washington brought up, because, he too was overall good but had some bad parts.

So if you get them to accept the reality of what the situation really was, you circumvent their whole argument.

War was about slavery.
Those statues were of people fighting to keep slavery.
Statues were built well after the war because they wanted to remind people of the superior race.

If you go about it without fixing that first part, then it becomes...

War was about southern rights mostly.
Statues were in honor of those that were willing to fight for rights.
The statues went up after the war, but are still symbols of good ideas even if the people are imperfect.

I see what you are saying, but I am not sure a re-education plan is going to be very effective, at least quickly, after 150 years of complete BS propaganda.

I think pulling the statues makes sense though, to open the conversation. When I first heard about pulling statues, I was on the "Don't whitewash history" side of the fence. Then I read the real history of the vast majority of these statues and school names, and it just pisses me off. Again, if these were contemporary statues I would be fine with them and want them to stay. A statue of Jefferson Davis built in a non-confederate state in 1965, though, has nothing to do with the civil war, honoring the dead, or with history, it is a symbol of repression and power, just like flying a swastika. The education needs to be on why these things were installed closer to the modern day than to the civil war, it's not pride but hate.

 

[Zorba]

I seriously doubt that many southerners accept the revisionist history that the Civil War wasn't about slavery. They know what those generals fought for- the right of southern states to keep slavery. They also know that those monuments were erected as potent symbols of Jim Crow & segregation, what former slavers managed to salvage after the war.

That's why we don't see many actually protesting removal at all. The New South is ready to move on but there are remnants of the Old South still doing their thing. The only people who show up to protest removal are the White supremacists & Nazis.

You give the south way too much credit. The South teaches the civil war was not about slavery in school. It was all about states rights and how repressive the North was during reconstruction. I know many people that think slavery was really just a small part of what those "rights" even were.

 

[justoh]

Should Germany be building statues to Hitler? Because doing that today would be closer to him historically than when most of these statues were built, and they are continuing to be built.

We don't build statues to honor people anymore. Nobody does that anywhere. Just the curiosity that we used to build statues is more significant than hurt feelings over statues. We used to build statues, and now we think they're passe but mostly harmless, unless you're a SJW. If you remove all the statues we'll forget why we stopped building them, and then we'll build more. It's a waste of time.

 

[ivwshane]

We don't build statues to honor people anymore. Nobody does that anywhere. Just the curiosity that we used to build statues is more significant than hurt feelings over statues. We used to build statues, and now we think they're passe but mostly harmless, unless you're a SJW. If you remove all the statues we'll forget why we stopped building them, and then we'll build more. It's a waste of time.

http://fortune.com/2018/03/01/fearless-girl-new-york-statue-moving-location-wall-street/

Those damn SJW's!!!

 

[justoh]

http://fortune.com/2018/03/01/fearless-girl-new-york-statue-moving-location-wall-street/

Those damn SJW's!!!

I'm sure i'll regret asking, but what?

 

[ivwshane]

I'm sure i'll regret asking, but what?

It must be hard for you now a days with Google to fact check you on the spot.

 

[justoh]

It must be hard for you now a days with Google to fact check you on the spot.

As expected, still no context to the link. Something about a statue of a little matador girl, or something. I suppose I"ll just have to get by with not knowing her significance. Well played in getting me to reply. Intriguing link. Mysterious.

 

[mizzou]

How many schools are named after Nazis in Germany? How many statues of Hitler were put up in the last 30 years? How many of those were in Jewish areas?

There would be a huge difference of these statues we're contemporary to the civil war, but they aren't.

Well.. the olympic stadium is still around and so is Auschwitz
Arent those, realistically, 100000% worse then a statue of a general who legally owned slaves? We want to see them bevause if we tear them down, we commit to forgeting and may do it again.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Well.. the olympic stadium is still around and so is Auschwitz
Arent those, realistically, 100000% worse then a statue of a general who legally owned slaves? We want to see them bevause if we tear them down, we commit to forgeting and may do it again.

Lol...right, without the statues we might bring back slavery...wowsers

 

[Zorba]

We don't build statues to honor people anymore. Nobody does that anywhere. Just the curiosity that we used to build statues is more significant than hurt feelings over statues. We used to build statues, and now we think they're passe but mostly harmless, unless you're a SJW. If you remove all the statues we'll forget why we stopped building them, and then we'll build more. It's a waste of time.

Okay, not sure what country you're from, but here in the US we still build statues all the time, including ones of the Confederate traitors.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Okay, not sure what country you're from, but here in the US we still build statues all the time, including ones of the Confederate traitors.

Don't feed the troll.

 

[Zorba]

Well.. the olympic stadium is still around and so is Auschwitz
Arent those, realistically, 100000% worse then a statue of a general who legally owned slaves? We want to see them bevause if we tear them down, we commit to forgeting and may do it again.

Well, first not even in the same ball park. Two those were built during Hitler's reign, not 100 years later. How would you feel if Germany erected a new concentration camp near a Jewish population today, to "honor" the SS?

I haven't seen anyone on here wanting to teardown contemporary symbols of slavery that actually tell history. They want to change the names of majority black schools named after Lee and Davis that were built 110 year's post-civil war.

 

[umbrella39]

Keeping statutes that were put up to remind black people of their place long after the civil war is not in any way “preserving our history”

If white Americans had people that were directly responsible for millions of our servitude and murders he would not be making such stupid posts about how their statues were necessary to preserve our history...

He's a fucking idiot...