Isreal regrets civ casualties...PLO never does...hmmm

Gravity

Diamond Member
Mar 21, 2003
5,685
0
0
I was just noting the irony of todays news where the Israel gov't announced that it regretted civilian casualties after it fired rockets at a car of escaping terrorists that tried to penetrate an forbidden zone. Apparently, at least 10 were killed and over 100 injured when they tried to kill the bad guyz. What struck me as ironic was that when there is a suicide bombing by Hamas or Fatah, they don't care how many civilians they kill, since the civilians are the targets.

It seems to me that Israel has already beaten these folks in a war and the continued violence is due to the occupied people protesting the occupation. What alternatives do the Isralie's have left? Run them out of the area? Wouldn't it make more sense to vanquish the enemy and empty the land of those that might try to harm their children?

Allegedly, during the last meeting with Bush, the president told the prime minister that if Mexico had sent a suicide bomber to Texas, that within 24 hours we would conquer it without mercy and then own it.

What should Isreal do now?

Gravity
 

lozina

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
11,711
8
81
Hypothetically speaking, if someone murdered your significant other or a child or yours- should you currently have one or have one in the future- would you feel at peace and drop charges after the murderer says he 'regretted the murder' ?

And in case you haven't noticed, this isn't 1803, this is 2003. Wars to conquer land and oppress people are not tolerated anymore. That's why we have the UN and Geneva Conventions
 

GrGr

Diamond Member
Sep 25, 2003
3,204
1
76

Families seek truth over Israeli deaths

Chris McGreal talks to the relatives of three British and American victims as they struggle to find out how their loved-ones came to die at the hands of the Israeli army

Monday October 20, 2003
The Guardian
....

The Hurndalls, from Tufnell Park, north London, are one of three British and American families struggling to extract from the Israeli government and military the truth about how loved ones were killed or horrendously wounded by soldiers.

All three families have accused the authorities of fabricating evidence, suppressing investigations and covering-up deliberate killings.

Tom Hurndall's mother, Jocelyn, wrote to Tony Blair last week demanding he exert more pressure on Israel to hold a transparent inquiry. Writing in today's Guardian, she calls the Israeli government a "deeply immoral regime which is cruel beyond human understanding".

The three victims were all shot in Rafah, a refugee camp in southern Gaza which the Israelis call a "war zone":

· Tom Hurndall, a student photographer volunteering with the International Solidarity Movement, was shot as he tried to protect children under fire from Israeli soldiers;

· James Miller, a 34-year-old British television cameraman, was killed a month later. His relatives are travelling to Israel next week to put pressure on the military to make its inquiry public and to admit it lied about the circumstances of his death;

· Rachel Corrie, a young American peace activist, was crushed to death by an army bulldozer in March. Her parents are still trying to obtain a copy of the military investigation which cleared the driver.

The Corries had been told the report was secret until they found that the Israeli government was covertly distributing it among members of the US Congress to prevent an independent investigation.

In only one case has there been a proper investigation: the death of Iain Hook from Felixstowe. He was head of the UN rebuilding programme in Jenin when he was shot by an Israeli sniper in November.

The army falsely claimed he was shot while standing among Palestinian gunmen in the UN compound. Israel paid compensation to Hook's family but attached confidentiality clauses which suppressed a public admission of culpability for what some of the UN worker's colleagues have called "cold-blooded murder".

All four families have carried out their own investigations after swiftly losing faith in the Israeli authorities.

"Sincerity isn't a word I would use in conjunction with the Israeli military," said James Miller's brother, John. "I have absolutely no confidence in what they tell me. I think the Israelis operate a war of attrition that just grinds you down in the hope you'll give up."

The Hurndalls have concluded that Israel has no intention of seriously investigating the shooting of their son, who was wearing a bright orange jacket, and had already carried a small boy to safety and was stooping to pick up a girl when the bullet struck.

The army investigation said that a sniper in a watchtower fired at a man wearing camouflage clothes and carrying a gun. The military came up with five theories for how the student came to be hit, all built around the claim that there was an unidentified gunman on the scene.

His father, Anthony, a lawyer, visited Rafah and compiled his own 50-page report in July. The report, seen by the Guardian, concludes that the army invented the gunman to justify the shooting. Mr Hurndall's report accuses the army of lying, withholding evidence and major factual errors.

"The events described are two different events: one real and the other a fabrication," Mr Hurndall wrote in his report. "The distance from the tower is about 150 metres [500ft]. For an experienced soldier, it is not possible to believe that he was under any misapprehension that Tom was a Palestinian gunman."

etc.

 

Aimster

Lifer
Jan 5, 2003
16,129
2
0
Hamas and Fatah are terrorist organizations and do the represent the Palestinian people. The only thing they do is protect the Palestinian people from actions like this and that is exactly how the Palestinians view them (as their protectors).

Won the War? Palestine has no army so how could they possibly ever win anything... Why do you think they have suicide bombers? Years of being bullied around with no army leads to the only other way to defend their country and that is risking their life. Why risk their life? Maybe because they have nothing to lose. They lost family members, they cannot go outside at night, they cannot get a job because the Israeli army locks them down, their house has probably been destroyed, Israeli soldiers have probably broken into their house to search it and did not care about their belongings ... stuff like this pisses people off.

Israel kills just as many innocent civilians as those groups do if not MORE and saying they are sorry for it makes it RIGHT? What Israel did is the same thing as a suicide bomber IMO with those strikes this past week and just because they used jets to kill innocent civilians does not make it any different and saying sorry helps, HOW? They were going for the bad guys ... so lets bomb their apartment complex or their house with people around walking. We should start doing this in America since it is OKAY.

Like I said in my earlier post Israel does not give a damn about the Palestinians and views them as animals and not human. The Palestinian people would love to kill an Israeli. Both sides hate and kill .. that is the fact.

This post is bias and useless.
 

Aimster

Lifer
Jan 5, 2003
16,129
2
0
good.. blah blah blah is a good reply.
I don't think anyone pays attention to your replys anyways with a link like that on your signature.
 

rchiu

Diamond Member
Jun 8, 2002
3,846
0
0
Originally posted by: Gravity
I was just noting the irony of todays news where the Israel gov't announced that it regretted civilian casualties after it fired rockets at a car of escaping terrorists that tried to penetrate an forbidden zone. Apparently, at least 10 were killed and over 100 injured when they tried to kill the bad guyz. What struck me as ironic was that when there is a suicide bombing by Hamas or Fatah, they don't care how many civilians they kill, since the civilians are the targets.

It seems to me that Israel has already beaten these folks in a war and the continued violence is due to the occupied people protesting the occupation. What alternatives do the Isralie's have left? Run them out of the area? Wouldn't it make more sense to vanquish the enemy and empty the land of those that might try to harm their children?

Allegedly, during the last meeting with Bush, the president told the prime minister that if Mexico had sent a suicide bomber to Texas, that within 24 hours we would conquer it without mercy and then own it.

What should Isreal do now?

Gravity

Let's say I kill your family and take over your house, then issue a statement saying I regret doing that but done nothing to payback what I took from you. You are going to be ok with that?

 

railer

Golden Member
Apr 15, 2000
1,552
69
91
Let's see. I'll go to Taco Bell today and kill a bunch of people, then say "I'm SORRY!!!!!" while I'm munching on my Tacos and sipping my Mountain Dew and everything will be OK. Nice world you live in gravity.....
 

Gravity

Diamond Member
Mar 21, 2003
5,685
0
0
Originally posted by: rchiu
Originally posted by: Gravity
I was just noting the irony of todays news where the Israel gov't announced that it regretted civilian casualties after it fired rockets at a car of escaping terrorists that tried to penetrate an forbidden zone. Apparently, at least 10 were killed and over 100 injured when they tried to kill the bad guyz. What struck me as ironic was that when there is a suicide bombing by Hamas or Fatah, they don't care how many civilians they kill, since the civilians are the targets.

It seems to me that Israel has already beaten these folks in a war and the continued violence is due to the occupied people protesting the occupation. What alternatives do the Isralie's have left? Run them out of the area? Wouldn't it make more sense to vanquish the enemy and empty the land of those that might try to harm their children?

Allegedly, during the last meeting with Bush, the president told the prime minister that if Mexico had sent a suicide bomber to Texas, that within 24 hours we would conquer it without mercy and then own it.

What should Isreal do now?

Gravity

Let's say I kill your family and take over your house, then issue a statement saying I regret doing that but done nothing to payback what I took from you. You are going to be ok with that?

No I wouldn't be ok with that. If my country was conquered in a war I'd fight back too or try to find a way to regain power. I wouldn't kill innocents to do that though, nor teach my children to grow up hating the other side. I'd try to find a legit means of re-establishing my sovereignty or move to another country.
 

lozina

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
11,711
8
81
Originally posted by: Gravity
Originally posted by: rchiu
Originally posted by: Gravity
I was just noting the irony of todays news where the Israel gov't announced that it regretted civilian casualties after it fired rockets at a car of escaping terrorists that tried to penetrate an forbidden zone. Apparently, at least 10 were killed and over 100 injured when they tried to kill the bad guyz. What struck me as ironic was that when there is a suicide bombing by Hamas or Fatah, they don't care how many civilians they kill, since the civilians are the targets.

It seems to me that Israel has already beaten these folks in a war and the continued violence is due to the occupied people protesting the occupation. What alternatives do the Isralie's have left? Run them out of the area? Wouldn't it make more sense to vanquish the enemy and empty the land of those that might try to harm their children?

Allegedly, during the last meeting with Bush, the president told the prime minister that if Mexico had sent a suicide bomber to Texas, that within 24 hours we would conquer it without mercy and then own it.

What should Isreal do now?

Gravity

Let's say I kill your family and take over your house, then issue a statement saying I regret doing that but done nothing to payback what I took from you. You are going to be ok with that?

No I wouldn't be ok with that. If my country was conquered in a war I'd fight back too or try to find a way to regain power. I wouldn't kill innocents to do that though, nor teach my children to grow up hating the other side. I'd try to find a legit means of re-establishing my sovereignty or move to another country.

You're absolutely right there, killing innocents is not the way. The Palestinian terrorist organizations really don't seem like they're interested in peace when they target night clubs and restaurants- in fact they seem to play right into the Likud government's hands as they keep giving them excuses to justify their oppression of the Palesitnian people. But as soon as you assume the Palestinian people in general are not interested in peace you become irrational. Who knows what the terrorist organizations intentions are, but it's not peace and it's not in the name of the Palestinian people who are suffering greater harm thanks to their actions.
 

Aimster

Lifer
Jan 5, 2003
16,129
2
0
Originally posted by: lozina
Originally posted by: Gravity
Originally posted by: rchiu
Originally posted by: Gravity
I was just noting the irony of todays news where the Israel gov't announced that it regretted civilian casualties after it fired rockets at a car of escaping terrorists that tried to penetrate an forbidden zone. Apparently, at least 10 were killed and over 100 injured when they tried to kill the bad guyz. What struck me as ironic was that when there is a suicide bombing by Hamas or Fatah, they don't care how many civilians they kill, since the civilians are the targets.

It seems to me that Israel has already beaten these folks in a war and the continued violence is due to the occupied people protesting the occupation. What alternatives do the Isralie's have left? Run them out of the area? Wouldn't it make more sense to vanquish the enemy and empty the land of those that might try to harm their children?

Allegedly, during the last meeting with Bush, the president told the prime minister that if Mexico had sent a suicide bomber to Texas, that within 24 hours we would conquer it without mercy and then own it.

What should Isreal do now?

Gravity

Let's say I kill your family and take over your house, then issue a statement saying I regret doing that but done nothing to payback what I took from you. You are going to be ok with that?

No I wouldn't be ok with that. If my country was conquered in a war I'd fight back too or try to find a way to regain power. I wouldn't kill innocents to do that though, nor teach my children to grow up hating the other side. I'd try to find a legit means of re-establishing my sovereignty or move to another country.

You're absolutely right there, killing innocents is not the way. The Palestinian terrorist organizations really don't seem like they're interested in peace when they target night clubs and restaurants- in fact they seem to play right into the Likud government's hands as they keep giving them excuses to justify their oppression of the Palesitnian people. But as soon as you assume the Palestinian people in general are not interested in peace you become irrational. Who knows what the terrorist organizations intentions are, but it's not peace and it's not in the name of the Palestinian people who are suffering greater harm thanks to their actions.


You get a cookie
 

Miramonti

Lifer
Aug 26, 2000
28,653
100
106
Israeli propaganda.

Constantly firing into neighborhoods and busy streets at so-called terrorists and yet releasing statements that they "regret civilian casualties" is completely hypocritical and just as murderous as suicide bombers.