Israeli war criminals use disproportionate use of force against peaceful Al-Qaeda

Noobtastic

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IDF helicopters opened fire at a cells on the Gaza border near Kissufim on Saturday morning, according to Palestinian reports.

Palestinian health official Moawiya Hassanain said that six Palestinians were wounded. He said that two were terrorist operatives and the rest were farmers.

The army confirmed the strike, and said it was investigating the reports of casualties.

According to an unnamed source, the cell was linked to al-Qaida, and was attempting to infiltrate Israeli territory.

The Israel-Gaza border has been relatively quiet since Operation Cast Lead last winter, though Palestinians occasionally fire rockets and mortar shells toward Israel, and IDF troops fire at suspicious figures near the border fence.

The Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine, said that its members were involved in Saturday's incident. The group claimed it fired six mortar rounds, though the IDF said it was unaware of mortar fire.
http://www.jpost.com/Israel/Article.aspx?ID=169192

BBC and the Guardian haven't commented yet, but I imagine it will be something like...."Yesterday morning, Israeli soldiers attacked a group of Palestinian farmers who were "suspected" of being militants, however this cannot be confirmed."

Notice the absolute hypocrisy over Britain's, America's, and Pakistan's offense in Afghanistan:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/8525769.stm

Mainstream media is willing to cite US military spokesperson testimony without question, and not dare interview civilians living under the Taliban.

So while they libel the IDF, they romanticize their own military even though they fight wars thousands of miles away and kill more civilians a month than Israel does in a decade.

Soldier_Israeli_Army_08112007_news_002.jpg


Criminal

article-1034126-01E9658900000578-418_468x294.jpg


Freedom fighter

*Edit - Ah, I fucked up the title. Oh well, it's 4 in the morning.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
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Troll.

Here's a return troll thread: "Ungrateful Palastenians call free Israeli security to protect them 'oppression'.
 

Double Trouble

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
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Wait.. you posted a thread whining about unfair treatment over an incident by the press that hasn't even happened yet? :rolleyes:
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
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Get a life, its a two way street here. If the Israelis want peace they need to stop stealing Palestinian land, grant the right to return, and be a realistic partner in solving the peace problems. Which either involves a free and independent Palestinian state or involves assimilating the Palestinians with equal rights.

These are the things the Israel has not done since its formation in 1948 as the problems fester and the can is kicked ever further down the road.

Until this Israeli stance changes, they should not be in any way surprised that they are under constant and unrelenting threats from terrorists.

The other problem comes from the fact that about 99% of all Palestinians do not participate in terrorism, yet, the Israeli response amounts to collective punishment
which is a war crime under international definitions.

And such it has been since the formation of Israel in 1948, and so it still is to this day.

But in a mad rush to choose one side or the other, we all seem to lose sight of the fact that, until some measure of justice and fairness is restored, the conflict will go on and on and on until it reaches total blood bath proportions. Its why I call for binding third party arbitration, if nothing else, because its pretty clear that the various sides will never see eye to eye. Like many hoped during the days of the Oslo accords.
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
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Get a life, its a two way street here. If the Israelis want peace they need to stop stealing Palestinian land, grant the right to return, and be a realistic partner in solving the peace problems. Which either involves a free and independent Palestinian state or involves assimilating the Palestinians with equal rights.

These are the things the Israel has not done since its formation in 1948 as the problems fester and the can is kicked ever further down the road.

Until this Israeli stance changes, they should not be in any way surprised that they are under constant and unrelenting threats from terrorists.

The other problem comes from the fact that about 99% of all Palestinians do not participate in terrorism, yet, the Israeli response amounts to collective punishment
which is a war crime under international definitions.

And such it has been since the formation of Israel in 1948, and so it still is to this day.

But in a mad rush to choose one side or the other, we all seem to lose sight of the fact that, until some measure of justice and fairness is restored, the conflict will go on and on and on until it reaches total blood bath proportions. Its why I call for binding third party arbitration, if nothing else, because its pretty clear that the various sides will never see eye to eye. Like many hoped during the days of the Oslo accords.

and this is coming from the guy who has publicly admitted he is a Palestinian sympathizer and could care less about what Israel does as long as the Palestinians get everything they want?

Also coming from the guy who believes that UN is not one sided against Israel.....

Who in his dreams actually believes the "right of return" is even applicable....

Who actually believes in third party binding arbitration.......find one country that is neutral on this issue...you can`t and you know0w it so your just blowing your usual smoke......

When the Palestinians take control of their own destiny and elect a government that truly wants peace then peace will happen..until then...the Palestinian people are their own worse enemy....
 
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Noobtastic

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Jul 9, 2005
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Wait.. you posted a thread whining about unfair treatment over an incident by the press that hasn't even happened yet? :rolleyes:

Close.

The thread is mostly about Al-Qaeda cells attacking Israel (only 2 instances ever), and I consider it to be a revelation. Al-Qaeda has never really gotten involved, aside from a few cells in Lebanon which haven't done much.

I mean, if Al-Qaeda was attacking Americans on the border you think it wouldn't make headlines?
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
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You are burning bridges with people here that would normally support you...
 

Noobtastic

Banned
Jul 9, 2005
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You are burning bridges with people here that would normally support you...

I'm just being honest. I am 100% against the Afghanistan and Iraq war, they are pointless. I know many supporters of Israel also support those wars - and that is fine, but I'm not going to lie.

Americans need to know their military is very very ruthless and isn't a fraction as cautious as Israel.

How many dictatorships does the USA support?
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
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I'm just being honest. I am 100% against the Afghanistan and Iraq war, they are pointless. I know many supporters of Israel also support those wars - and that is fine, but I'm not going to lie.

Americans need to know their military is very very ruthless and isn't a fraction as cautious as Israel.

How many dictatorships does the USA support?

Nations don't have allies, they have interests. Israel isn't exactly a beacon of democracy but we support her for our own reasons. Don't bite the hand that supports you...
 

Noobtastic

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Jul 9, 2005
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Nations don't have allies, they have interests. Israel isn't exactly a beacon of democracy but we support her for our own reasons. Don't bite the hand that supports you...

Israel is Jesus compared to the USA.

Nations don't have allies - but nations like the USA have bankrolled and supporter dictators unconditionally, while holding Israel hostage over settlements.

Israel is the ONLY country in the World where the international community pushes for "cease-fires" whenever it goes to war.

Imagine if Israel demanded a cease-fire during Operation Crescent Wind....GEEZ, the moral outrage that would ensue.

Israel should have simply destroyed its Arab neighbors when it had the capacity to do so, and then it wouldn't have to depend on the USA for protection.
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
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Israel is Jesus compared to the USA.

Nations don't have allies - but nations like the USA have bankrolled and supporter dictators unconditionally, while holding Israel hostage over settlements.

Israel is the ONLY country in the World where the international community pushes for "cease-fires" whenever it goes to war.

Imagine if Israel demanded a cease-fire during Operation Crescent Wind....GEEZ, the moral outrage that would ensue.

Israel should have simply destroyed its Arab neighbors when it had the capacity to do so, and then it wouldn't have to depend on the USA for protection.

You never had the capacity to destroy them. Furthermore, with Iran developing nuclear weapons, it will make it difficult for the United States to convince the arabs not to get their own. With that type of attitude time is not on your side.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
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To JEDIYoda, get a life, your response to me is stupid in the extreme as you claim, " and this is coming from the guy who has publicly admitted he is a Palestinian sympathizer and could care less about what Israel does as long as the Palestinians get everything they want?"

Which is wrong wrong, and wrong again. Your problem is and remains, you are so pro Israeli biased that you cannot see the validity in the arguments of both sides. After a basic 62 history, there are so many wrongs on both sides, that we lose sight of three facts.

(1) Just because there are a semi infinite set valid wrongs and big mistakes on all sides, that no amount of wrongs will ever amount to a single right. But as all sides wallow, like pigs in mud, with only their set of grievances, all common ground is lost.

(2) Both the Israeli and Palestinian sides have valid arguments, but if the world expects a solution where one side totally wins and the other side totally loses, get em clue, its not going to ever happen. In short the mid-east can be shared, but no one side will ever long term pig it all. If nothing else, its the longer long term 4000 year history of the so called holy land.

(3) Yes I will admit some pro Palestinian bias that comes from my American standards of fair play. During the past 62 years, Israel has gained unfairly at Palestinian expense as its grubbed up far more than the lions share, and therefore Israel, if it wants to be both a positive part of the mid-east and wants a just peace, Israel must make the bulk of the concessions. Exactly what Israel is not doing and exactly why terrorists will win in the end.

Now I don't know about you, JEDIYoda but I do not want to see terrorists win in the end. But those are the trend lines. As for Al-Quida, they are a dedicated terrorist world wide organization, and they Duh thrive on promoting any conflict.
 
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Noobtastic

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You never had the capacity to destroy them. Furthermore, with Iran developing nuclear weapons, it will make it difficult for the United States to convince the arabs not to get their own. With that type of attitude time is not on your side.

Yes, Israel told the whole world Iran was building nuclear weapons and the response was muted. Now - after the IAEA has booted its pro-Muslim leader, finally they say Iran is pursuing nukes *shocker.*

Israel has been asking the US for permission to bomb Iran's sites for a long time, and Bush rejected Israel's plan. 4 years ago it was practical, but now with Iran's much more advanced missile system and military improvements I'm not sure if it is possible.

And remember, who is responsible for allowing the Islamists to take over Iran?

USA of course.

Looks like Israel is going to clean up another mess created by the Americans.

And of course Israel will be blamed for the fall out.
 

fallout man

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Nov 20, 2007
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Israel should have simply destroyed its Arab neighbors when it had the capacity to do so, and then it wouldn't have to depend on the USA for protection.

Why doesn't Israel "simply destroy its Arab neighbors" today?

Oh wai... they ran out of cluster-bombs during the Lebanon debacle and had to toss American salad to get another shipment in.

I think Israel needs to get their shit together and pull themselves up by their boot-straps, because being insulted as an American by douchebag Hasbara-bloggers like you is not what we're paying for with the tax dollars that go to prop-up your shit-hole of a country.
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
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Why doesn't Israel "simply destroy its Arab neighbors" today?

Oh wai... they ran out of cluster-bombs during the Lebanon debacle and had to toss American salad to get another shipment in.

I think Israel needs to get their shit together and pull themselves up by their boot-straps, because being insulted as an American by douchebag Hasbara-bloggers like you is not what we're paying for with the tax dollars that go to prop-up your shit-hole of a country.

as usual you don`t know shit about what you are talking about!~!
Nice diatribe but totally wrong.....
I think you need to crawl back under that rock you came from and leave Israel to their own way.

Calling peeps douche bags is what you usually do when you look in the mirror at yourself!!
 

Noobtastic

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Jul 9, 2005
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Why doesn't Israel "simply destroy its Arab neighbors" today?

And what would that accomplish besides killing millions of people?
Oh wai... they ran out of cluster-bombs during the Lebanon debacle and had to toss American salad to get another shipment in.


Israel has nukes. It could wipe out the Arab street in 6 seconds.

I think Israel needs to get their shit together and pull themselves up by their boot-straps, because being insulted as an American by douchebag Hasbara-bloggers like you is not what we're paying for with the tax dollars that go to prop-up your shit-hole of a country.

I think you are an ignorant troll who doesn't know what fuck he's talking about.

You should be more concerned about the trillion you dumped in Iraq and Afghanistan than the pennies you give to Israel - which has saved countless American lives and contributes overall tactics against terrorists and homicidal Muslims.

If you didn't know, Israel was 6 kilometers from Cairo during the Six Day War. Israel demolished the armies of Syria, Egypt, and Jordan. Had Israel decided to, it could have easily invaded and crushed Egypt, then moved to Jordan, and finally Syria - forcing a formal surrender and ending the Arab-Israeli conflict.

But no, Britain and America demanded a cease-fire, told Israel to pull out of Egypt and move back to the Sinai. Then they drew up a resolution that called for the eventually withdrawal of forces from territories occupied during a negotiated peace (which was flatly rejected by the Arab tribes.)

Britain and America naturally promises Israel's security in exchange for its restraint...but this would not be fulfilled. During the Yom Kippur War Britain wouldn't allow its airspace to be used to re-supply Israel's military, and American generals were hesitant to support Israel when Americans lacked proper supplies in Vietnam.

Israel allowed itself to be taken advantage of to save the region and to save lives.

But it could have implemented its military capabilities to the fullest extent and crushed the Arab regimes.

America has destroyed nations for far, far less.
 

fallout man

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Nov 20, 2007
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And what would that accomplish besides killing millions of people?

It would be the final solution to the Arab problem. Isn't that what Israel ultimately wants?

Israel has nukes. It could wipe out the Arab street in 6 seconds.

Why not do it, when the alternate option is living with terror and a shit-load of kvetching for decades? Israel is perfectly empowered and justified to create its own solutions, no?

I think you are an ignorant troll who doesn't know what fuck he's talking about.

I do OK, thanks.

You should be more concerned about the trillion you dumped in Iraq and Afghanistan than the pennies you give to Israel - which has saved countless American lives and contributes overall tactics against terrorists and homicidal Muslims.

The wars in Afghanistan and Iraq have killed countless American lives, and the money we "dumped in Iraq and Afghanistan," in addition to the "pennies" we give to Israel could have fire-proofed OUR borders.

Israel hasn't saved "countless American lives and contribute[d] to overall tactics." Israel has been routinely stealing US military tech by spying, and has even sold confidential tech we have offered them as a gesture--to CHINA (and God-knows-who else). Israel doesn't give a flying-fuck about the goy, period.

America has destroyed nations for far, far less.

...and we're all still sore about 9-11.
 

SamurAchzar

Platinum Member
Feb 15, 2006
2,422
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Israel hasn't saved "countless American lives and contribute[d] to overall tactics." Israel has been routinely stealing US military tech by spying, and has even sold confidential tech we have offered them as a gesture--to CHINA (and God-knows-who else). Israel doesn't give a flying-fuck about the goy, period.

Now now, you are just being an idiot :D

Please educate yourself on the Chinese-Israeli deal.

The interesting bits:

Jump to: navigation, search
The IAI EL/M-2075 Phalcon is an Airborne Early Warning and Control (AEW&C) radar system developed by Israeli Aircraft Industries (IAI) and Elta Electronics Industries of Israel. Its primary objective is to provide intelligence to maintain air superiority and conduct surveillance. According to the Federation of American Scientists in a 2009 article, the Phalcon was the most advanced AEW&C system in the world


So allegedly more advanced than the American systems. American tech? Nope, USA just didn't want China to have better airspace control than its own, so it pushed Israel to the wall and Israel gave up.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
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Lets see if I can get my arms around this, Israel already has nuclear weapons and no one is even sure that Iran even intends to develop nuclear weapons.

Yet Israel somehow seems to feel its their God given right to prevent Iran from developing its own peace time nuclear electrical generating capacity. And Israel somehow asserts the right to use WMD on their distant neighbors on a pre emetive strike basis. Unlike Syria, Lebanon, Gaza, and Iraq, Iran is no longer a paper tiger, and Israel may find that they can start the fight, but Iran has the means to finish it.

Well cheer up, Iran is not alone, some 40 other nations are petitioning the IAEA to develop their own peace time nuclear programs.
 

fallout man

Golden Member
Nov 20, 2007
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The interesting bits:
Quote:
Jump to: navigation, search
The IAI EL/M-2075 Phalcon is an Airborne Early Warning and Control (AEW&C) radar system developed by Israeli Aircraft Industries (IAI) and Elta Electronics Industries of Israel. Its primary objective is to provide intelligence to maintain air superiority and conduct surveillance. According to the Federation of American Scientists in a 2009 article, the Phalcon was the most advanced AEW&C system in the world

Typical hasbara. "Israel is so fucking smart that they totally don't need to steal US military secrets!" You must also walk around your undoubtedly very spacious and luxurious (because you're special and smart and gifted) condominium/home at night with your eyes closed.

OOOGA-BOOOGA!

After-all, the Ashkenazi are of such high intellect that I'm surprised they have not yet been able to out-wit their detractors regarding these silly, trivial issues. I chalk it up to anti-semitism.
 

Noobtastic

Banned
Jul 9, 2005
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Typical hasbara. "Israel is so fucking smart that they totally don't need to steal US military secrets!" You must also walk around your undoubtedly very spacious and luxurious (because you're special and smart and gifted) condominium/home at night with your eyes closed.

OOOGA-BOOOGA!

After-all, the Ashkenazi are of such high intellect that I'm surprised they have not yet been able to out-wit their detractors regarding these silly, trivial issues. I chalk it up to anti-semitism.

Your such an antisemite Fallout.

Here is a laundry list of Israel's contribution to the West and America:

Since 1967, Israel has given to the Pentagon Soviet military equipment captured in conflicts with Soviet-supported Arab countries, providing important data. Israel gave the US a full squadron of MiG-21s which was called the “Top Gun” squadron and used by the U.S. Air Force and Navy for training purposes.

In 1970, Israel forced the withdrawal of the Syrian army from US-ally Jordan while the U.S. was involved militarily in Vietnam, Laos, and Cambodia, helping to prevent the collapse of a pro-American government and the installation of a pro-Soviet regime.

In the 1973 War, Israel defeated Soviet-trained and equipped Egyptian and Syrian armies. Israel shared captured Soviet equipment with the US. Israel emerged the one reliable ally where U.S. troops could land, where U.S. equipment can be pre-positioned and where the U.S. has friendly port facilities, saving the US billions of dollars.

In 1982, Israel destroyed Soviet anti-aircraft systems in Lebanon that were considered impenetrable by American weapons. Israel shared with the US insights from the conflict, estimated to be worth billions of dollars.

Senator Daniel Inouye has stated that Israeli data on the Soviet military has saved the U.S. billions of dollars and that the contribution made by Israeli intelligence to America exceeds information provided by all NATO countries combined.

In 1981, Israel bombed the Iraqi nuclear reactor at Osirak, stalling Saddam Hussein’s nuclear capabilities and allowing the U.S. to engage in conventional warfare with Iraq.

Israel has provided critical analysis of the F16 to General Dynamics that resulted in 600 improvements, including structural enhancements, software changes, increased capability landing gear, radio improvements and avionic modifications.

In the Gulf War, Israel provided the US with key intelligence, air cover for military cargo and had IDF stationed in the Iraqi desert to rescue downed American pilots.

The IDF was the sole military force in the region that could successfully challenge the Iraqi army. That fact, which Saddam Hussein understood, was a deterrent to further Iraqi aggression.

The US military benefited from the use of Israeli-made Have Nap air-launched missiles on its B-52 bombers. The Navy used Israeli Pioneer pilotless drones for reconnaissance in the Gulf.

Israel provided mine plows that were used to clear paths for Allied forces through Iraqi minefields.

Mobile bridges flown directly from Israel to Saudi Arabia were used by the U.S. Marine Corps

Israel Aircraft Industries developed conformal fuel tanks that enhanced the range of F15 aircraft used in the Gulf War.

An Israeli-produced targeting system was used to increase the Cobra helicopter's night-fighting capabilities.

Israel manufactured the canister for the highly successful Tomahawk missile.

Night-vision goggles used by U.S. forces were supplied by Israel.

A low-altitude warning system produced and developed in Israel was utilized on Blackhawk helicopters.

Other Israeli equipment provided to U.S. forces included flack vests, gas masks and sandbags.

Israel offered the United States the use of military and hospital facilities. U.S. ships utilized Haifa port shipyard maintenance and support on their way to the Gulf.

General George Keegan, former head of U.S. Air Force Intelligence, has stated that “Israel is worth five CIA’s.” He said that between 1974 and
1990, Israel received $18.3 billion in U.S. military grants, but, that in the same timeframe Israel provided the U.S. with $50-$80 billion in intelligence, research and development savings and Soviet weapons systems given to the U.S.

Israel shares with the US important experience in homeland defense and warfare against suicide bombers and car bombs.

In preparation for the Iraq War, American soldiers trained in IDF facilities and Israeli drones flew above the Sunni Triangle and in Afghanistan providing U.S. Marines with critical intelligence.

In Iraq, Israeli advisers have trained US special forces in aggressive counter-insurgency operations, including the use of assassination squads against guerrilla leaders.

The IDF sent urban warfare specialists to Fort Bragg in North Carolina, the home of US special forces, and Israeli military consultants have also visited Iraq.

The US Army also travelled to Israel to glean lessons learned from their counterterrorist operations in urban areas. The IDF regularly shared its experience in the West Bank and Gaza with the US armed forces. The Pentagon regularly asked the IDF to debrief on operations similar to those engaged in by US military forces.

An American liaison team had been responsible for coordinating efforts and intelligence between the Pentagon, the IDF, and American forces. Major General Charles Simpson, the chief liaison officer for the U.S. Army, met repeatedly with IDF Chief of Staff Moshe Ya'alon on this joint project.

Joint air force exercises, such as the Juniper Cobra, had taken place between Israeli and the American Patriot artillery in the Negev and radar units from the U.S. Sixth Fleet. Noble Dina, an anti-submarine warfare exercise, were executed with the combined efforts of the Israel Navy and the Sixth Fleet.

American soldiers were in Israel prior to the Iraq war to work with anti-missile defenses, both the U.S.-made Patriot and the Arrow, developed by both Israel and the U.S.

The U.S. sailed an aircraft carrier, the Harry Truman, into the Mediterranean Sea. The aircraft allowed U.S. planes to reach Iraqi targets by flying over Israeli and Jordanian territory. Israel has permitted the use of its air zones.

Israel has been sharing with the US its experience in combating Palestinian terrorism, which has been helpful in the US's war in Afghanistan. The US military benefits from Israel’s tactics against suicide bombers, car bombs and improvised explosive devices.

Most of the US military aid to Israel must be spent in the United States, which benefits US military contractors.

In contrast to US commitments to Korea, Japan, Germany and numerous other countries in which the US has over 100 military bases, the US has no military bases in Israel.

Former Secretary of State and NATO forces Commander Alexander Haig has said that he is pro-Israeli because Israel is "the largest American aircraft carrier in the world that cannot be sunk, does not carry even one American soldier, and is located in a critical region for American national security"

In the immediate aftermath of Hurricane Katrina in August 2005, Israel provided assistance to the relief efforts. An Israeli airlift arrived in Little Rock, Arkansas with an eighty-ton shipment of humanitarian aid, including baby food, diapers, water, ready-to-eat meals, clothes, tents, blankets, mattresses, stretchers, first aid kits, wheelchairs and other medical supplies.

In addition to government aid, Israeli non-profit organizations assisted in the relief efforts. Magen David Adom (Israel's national emergency medical, disaster, ambulance and blood bank service) began the "United Brotherhood Operation," which sent a plane-load of supplies and financial assistance. IsraAid, the coordinating body of Israeli non-profits organizations involved in relief work, sent a delegation of medical personnel, psychologists and experienced search-and-rescue divers.

Five universities in Israel welcomed displaced American students from the affected areas and invited both undergraduate and graduate students to continue their studies in Israel.

When terrorists bombed the U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania in August 1998, Israel immediately dispatched search and rescue teams to assist in saving the victims trapped under the rubble. The IDF's Home Front Command Rescue Unit was the first delegation to arrive from abroad, and was accompanied by military and civilian doctors, rescue dogs and high-tech rescue equipment. The Israeli team led the rescue operation in Nairobi, Kenya and was able to pull three survivors from the building, perform life-saving operations and provide medical care to the victims of the bombing.


Your obsession with Israel is suspect, considering I doubt you have the same feelings for the Arabs and Muslims - who have received far more free money than Israel, and have given nothing back besides oil and terrorism.
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,986
3,321
126
Typical hasbara. "Israel is so fucking smart that they totally don't need to steal US military secrets!" You must also walk around your undoubtedly very spacious and luxurious (because you're special and smart and gifted) condominium/home at night with your eyes closed.

OOOGA-BOOOGA!

After-all, the Ashkenazi are of such high intellect that I'm surprised they have not yet been able to out-wit their detractors regarding these silly, trivial issues. I chalk it up to anti-semitism.

You should quit posting while your ahead......with every post you show how utterly ignorant you are on this subject.
You know nothing about israeli intelligence nor do you know anything about Israel`s capability to improve upon in almost every case what we have allowed them to purchase from us.

It`s not that anybody thinks Israel is so smart...it`s that when you may have to rely on your military and it`s weaponry to exist......you become adept and improving things. You alos become adept at espionage. Just sop you understand, we spy on all our allies.....it`s a game everybody plays.

Your game is showing how ignorant you can be!