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Israeli Soldiers Admit To Deliberately Killing Civilians In Gaza

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EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,591
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Originally posted by: filetitan
Israel has gone to far and we need to stop supporting their destructive path.
And what do you expect them to do? Turn the other cheek.
That does not work in the real world with enemies that have stated their goal is your destruction.

 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
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Originally posted by: Common Courtesy
Originally posted by: filetitan
Israel has gone to far and we need to stop supporting their destructive path.
And what do you expect them to do? Turn the other cheek.
That does not work in the real world with enemies that have stated their goal is your destruction.
You're propagandaizing, CC. You deceive by implying things such as that an almost complete halt to rocket attacks is no change, or here the old 'destroy Israel' line.

I guess there's no chance for peace, then. After all, even if the Palestinians agreed to peace, you can't trust those animals. The only solution is to kill or remove them.

Except that Hamas has offered a long-term truce to Israel currently; and the Arab League approved a proposal to offer full recognition of and relations with Israel.

Not consistent with your line that they are only willing to destroy Israel. But you aren't interested in the truth, are you?

The idea that the right wing in Israel is happy to pursue the conflict and look for forcing an unjust situation, you ignore the evidence of that.

You are the enemy of peace there, CC. I don't know the source of your bias - sincere or diengenuous, interested or ignorant, but you are propagandizing.

You are led to the facts and you refuse to deal with them.

Shown the evidence that Hamas was acting in good faith trying to block the missile attacks during the cease fire for several months, almost entirely eliminating them, and that Israel did not reduce the embargo as agreed - and that Hamas offered to renew the truce if Israel would honor the terms, but Israel refused - you try to argue that the tiny number of rockets that outside forces like Al Queda launched justify Israel's abdication of its side of the agreement, and think you have a leg to stand on?
 

palehorse

Lifer
Dec 21, 2005
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Originally posted by: Craig234
Except that Hamas has offered a long-term truce to Israel currently; and the Arab League approved a proposal to offer full recognition of and relations with Israel.
Tell me, did Hamas agree to the Arab League's offer of "full recognition of and relations with Israel"?
 

kylebisme

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2000
9,396
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Originally posted by: Craig234
...you try to argue that the tiny number of rockets that outside forces like Al Queda launched...
Al-Aqsa that is. ;)

Also, Common Courtesy, as I know you are hostile to my opinion, I hope you might take the time to read this essay from a Jewish American PhD who serves as a Social Science Advisor with the US Army's Human Terrain System, found here:

http://turcopolier.typepad.com...sisrael-relations.html

My intentions are no different than those described there, I hope that might help you become more understanding of my interest in this issue.
 

kylebisme

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2000
9,396
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Originally posted by: palehorse
Tell me, did Hamas agree to the Arab League's offer of "full recognition of and relations with Israel"?
They have shown more interest in doing so than Israel has in reciprocating:

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1035414.html

And that was hardly the first time, here is an article on a Hamas representative saying as much back in 2002:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/...002/04/28/MN222422.DTL

Though Israel killed him off shortly after:

http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Gove...anab+-+21-Aug-2003.htm
 

palehorse

Lifer
Dec 21, 2005
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Originally posted by: TheSnowman
Originally posted by: palehorse
Tell me, did Hamas agree to the Arab League's offer of "full recognition of and relations with Israel"?
They have shown more interest in doing so than Israel has in reciprocating
It was a YES or NO question.

And I think we all know what Hamas' charter says...
 

kylebisme

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2000
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I know Hamas' charter was never ratified, making the continual citing of it a lame strawman.

I also know Likud's platform was ratified, and it denies Palestine's right to exist as an independent state.
 

palehorse

Lifer
Dec 21, 2005
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Originally posted by: kylebisme
I know Hamas' charter was never ratified, making the continual citing of it a lame strawman.
Tell that to every member of Hamas who lives, kills, and dies by said charter.

I also know Likud's platform was ratified, and it denies Palestine's right to exist as an independent state.
I must have missed the portion of Likud's platform that calls for the murder of every Palestinian... and wasn't the Likud Party the first to carry through pn peace agreements with the Arab states? I spent six months patrolling the Sinai thanks to the Likud party. hmm...
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
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Originally posted by: kylebisme
Originally posted by: Craig234
...you try to argue that the tiny number of rockets that outside forces like Al Queda launched...
Al-Aqsa that is. ;)
Well, I've seen reports that Al Queda was involved in the few launches in that period.

Also, Common Courtesy, as I know you are hostile to my opinion, I hope you might take the time to read this essay from a Jewish American PhD who serves as a Social Science Advisor with the US Army's Human Terrain System, found here:

http://turcopolier.typepad.com...sisrael-relations.html

My intentions are no different than those described there, I hope that might help you become more understanding of my interest in this issue.
Similarly, I'd suggest checking out Americans fr Peace, a group of Jews who support peace efforts.

I received a (mass mailing) note from them today, with the story of a leader who grew up in the settlement on the Gaza border that Egypt first attacked in their war on Israel, with every building levelled and only one wall standing, upon which they difiantly wrote that man, not tanks, would be the victors; his older brother was killed by a mine while riding his tractor, who was an Insraeli intellgence officer 20 years - yet he strongly says that force will not being peace.

That's a group I think deserves support.
 

kylebisme

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2000
9,396
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Originally posted by: palehorse
Originally posted by: kylebisme
I know Hamas' charter was never ratified, making the continual citing of it a lame strawman.
Tell that to every member of Hamas who lives, kills, and dies by said charter.
That is just in your imagination, and in direct contradiction to evidence I posted above.

Originally posted by: palehorse
Originally posted by: kylebisme
I also know Likud's platform was ratified, and it denies Palestine's right to exist as an independent state.
I must have missed the portion of Likud's platform that calls for the murder of every Palestinian...
Again you are getting carried away with your imagination, and missing a lot of reality in the process.
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,701
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Originally posted by: kylebisme
I know Hamas' charter was never ratified, making the continual citing of it a lame strawman.

I also know Likud's platform was ratified, and it denies Palestine's right to exist as an independent state.
Nice play on words. But thats is not the same as denying Israel the right to exist at all!!

Nowhere in :Lukid`s platform did they deny the palestinians the right to exst!
What they did was to deny the palestinians the right to exist as a state.
There is ahuge difference between being exterminated and not having a homeland!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Likud

Likud has in the past espoused hawkish policies towards the Palestinians, including opposition to Palestinian statehood and support of the Jewish settlers in the West Bank and Gaza Strip. However, it has also been the party which carried out the first peace agreements with Arab states. For instance, in 1979, Likud Prime Minister, Menachem Begin, signed the Camp David Accords with Egyptian President Anwar al-Sadat, which returned the Sinai Peninsula (occupied by Israel in the Six-Day War of 1967) to Egypt in return for peace between the two countries. Yitzhak Shamir also granted some legitimacy to the Palestinians by meeting them at the ill-fated Madrid Conference following the Persian Gulf War in 1991. However, Shamir refused to concede the idea of a Palestinian state, and as a result was blamed by some (including U.S. Secretary of State James Baker) for the failure of the summit. Later, as Prime Minister, Binyamin Netanyahu restated Likud's position of opposing Palestinian statehood, which after the Oslo Accords was largely accepted by the opposition Labor Party, even though the shape of any such state was not clear.

 

Siddhartha

Lifer
Oct 17, 1999
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Originally posted by: irishScott
OK. So shit happens in war, and some soldiers take it too far. Look at the US in Vietnam for starters. Hell look at Abu-Graihb (sp?).

Yes it's horrible, yes it should be dealt with, yes those soldiers should be stripped of their military rank and shoved into prison. But of no surprise whatsoever, and I wouldn't color the entire Israeli military with these acts any more than I would color all of the Vietnam vets with the acts of the relative minority who committed atrocities.

I must also point out that if Hamas had held off on the rockets, none of this would have happened. They called down the thunder (for the... how many times are they up to now?) and apparently didn't expect something of this magnitude. Again. Morons.

Lets hope this kind of shit does not happen to you or your family.
 
Jun 26, 2007
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Originally posted by: Siddhartha
Originally posted by: irishScott
OK. So shit happens in war, and some soldiers take it too far. Look at the US in Vietnam for starters. Hell look at Abu-Graihb (sp?).

Yes it's horrible, yes it should be dealt with, yes those soldiers should be stripped of their military rank and shoved into prison. But of no surprise whatsoever, and I wouldn't color the entire Israeli military with these acts any more than I would color all of the Vietnam vets with the acts of the relative minority who committed atrocities.

I must also point out that if Hamas had held off on the rockets, none of this would have happened. They called down the thunder (for the... how many times are they up to now?) and apparently didn't expect something of this magnitude. Again. Morons.

Lets hope this kind of shit does not happen to you or your family.
I'm going to have to step in and say that this isn't a general principle of warfare.

Some will get hurt, some "innocent" and most of them aren't "innocent" at all but people who hide enemy troops.

If you haven't faced that kind of situation you should SHUT THE FUCK UP and let us who have speak.

I'm Brittish, we've lived with terrorists since before i was born, i've done this for a long time and i'll be doing this until i retire, either dead or honorably, but you don't get this, at all.

We targeted a camp in Pakistan, when the cameras were there the civilians the Talibans had killed at a wedding were there.

We targeted a group in a cave, a few hours later a schoolclass were shot and placed in the area.

We can't win against their propaganda but make fucking sure you know what you're talking about before you spread it son because it's MY life and the life of my men on the line here and i have YET to see one civilian death.
 
Nov 30, 2006
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Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Originally posted by: palehorse
well played.
Seems to "discredit" the OP...
Here is more to "DISCREDIT" the OP
I'm sure the OP has no interest in your biased propaganda...he has long ago sacrificed ability to be rational and objective for a much greater and nobler cause. You see...he's the one who can clearly see the truth of this matter...it is we who are blind. If you don't believe me...ask him.
 

kylebisme

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2000
9,396
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You guys probably still believe Israel's lies about Hezbollah using human shields back in 2006, eh?
 

ZeGermans

Banned
Dec 14, 2004
907
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just fyi qassam rockets probably do more damage to sidewalks than they ever have to civillians, but don't let this bother you in your moral equivalency debate of bottle rockets vs. white phosophorous
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
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www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: ZeGermans
just fyi qassam rockets probably do more damage to sidewalks than they ever have to civillians, but don't let this bother you in your moral equivalency debate of bottle rockets vs. white phosophorous
Originally posted by: kylebisme
You guys probably still believe Israel's lies about Hezbollah using human shields back in 2006, eh?
These have exactly what to do with the "discredited" OP?
 

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