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Israeli Soldiers Admit To Deliberately Killing Civilians In Gaza

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wwswimming

Banned
Jan 21, 2006
3,702
1
0
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Glad to see the truth finally coming out. I think the only way the Israeli government will reform their murderous ways is if their own citizens hear these horror stories...unarmed women and children being ripped apart by Israeli sniper fire.

Text
the Israeli government will not be reforming at all.

Israel's most recent terrorist attack on the Palestinians had the full support of Netanyahu, Livni, and Lieberman - all of whom ended up with senior government positions after the recent elections.

exiting Prime Minister Ariel Sharon was not called "the Butcher" because he was good at making hamburger. he was called "the Butcher" because of his proficiency & enthusiasm at killing Palestinian civilians.

as long as such behavior is openly rewarded, your hope will remain un-fulfilled.

it's similar to Lt. Calley, one of the offending commanders in the My Lai massacre, running for President - and winning.

interestingly, one of Colin Powell's tasks as a young soldier/ Pentagon aide during the '60's was to whitewash the My Lai massacre to the extent possible.
 

palehorse

Lifer
Dec 21, 2005
11,521
0
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Originally posted by: wwswimming
blah blah blah As-Sahab Islamist propaganda blah blah blah
Israel's largest mistake was in leaving any member of Hamas alive to terrorize Israel another day.
 
Jun 26, 2007
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Originally posted by: palehorse
Originally posted by: wwswimming
blah blah blah As-Sahab Islamist propaganda blah blah blah
Israel's largest mistake was in leaving any member of Hamas alive to terrorize Israel another day.
Problem is that the cowards hide behind women and children and even though Israel tries to minimise casualties they can't minimise them if they are to take out the cowards who hides under the womens skirts.

I'd like to see the IDF go back to the old style with several task force type teams moving in all areas at all times, picking them off one by one by one and getting air support with laser guides on targets where there are minimal civilian casualties.

Hmmm wonder where i got that strategy from. ;)
 

cirrrocco

Golden Member
Sep 7, 2004
1,946
74
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Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield
Originally posted by: palehorse
Originally posted by: wwswimming
blah blah blah As-Sahab Islamist propaganda blah blah blah
Israel's largest mistake was in leaving any member of Hamas alive to terrorize Israel another day.
Problem is that the cowards hide behind women and children and even though Israel tries to minimise casualties they can't minimise them if they are to take out the cowards who hides under the womens skirts.

I'd like to see the IDF go back to the old style with several task force type teams moving in all areas at all times, picking them off one by one by one and getting air support with laser guides on targets where there are minimal civilian casualties.

Hmmm wonder where i got that strategy from. ;)
Terminator :0
 

kylebisme

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2000
9,396
0
0
Originally posted by: Common Courtesy
And how many rockets were launched during the 6 month truce in '08.

Hamas grabs a couple of players and ignores the rest.
In your second reference, they arrested a spokesman, not the people that did it.

When the rockets stop, the embargo will be relaxed. That is what ISrael stated.

An analysis of the situation on the ground indicates two distinct periods:
i) A period of relative quiet between June 19 and November 4: As of June 19, there was a marked reduction in the extent of attacks on the western Negev population. The lull was sporadically violated by rocket and mortar shell fire, carried out by rogue terrorist organizations, in some instance in defiance of Hamas (especially by Fatah and Al-Qaeda supporters). Hamas was careful to maintain the ceasefire. The IDF refrained from undertaking counterterrorism activities in the Gaza Strip, taking only routine defensive security measures along the border fence. Between June 19 and November 4, 20 rockets (three of which fell inside the Gaza Strip) and 18 mortar shells (five of which fell inside the Gaza Strip) were fired at Israel.

ii) The escalation and erosion of the lull arrangement, November 4 to the time of this writing, December 172: On November 4 the IDF carried out a military action close to the border security fence on the Gazan side to prevent an abduction planned by Hamas, which had dug a tunnel under the fence to that purpose. Seven Hamas terrorist operatives were killed during the action. In retaliation, Hamas and the other terrorist organizations attacked Israel with a massive barrage of rockets. Since then, 191 rockets and 138 mortar shells have been fired. The attacks have been continuous and some were carried out by weapons not previously used, such as 122mm standard Grad rockets and 120mm mortar shells. Hamas has been directly involved in the attacks in cooperation with the other terrorist organizations.
http://www.terrorism-info.org....g_n/pdf/hamas_e017.pdf
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,591
5
0
Very good and drawn from a non-Arab/British source/

The rockets did not stop.

The embargo was not relaxed.

Simple cause and effect.

Hamas is not looking out for the Palestinian people.
 

ZzZGuy

Golden Member
Nov 15, 2006
1,855
0
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Originally posted by: TheSnowman
Originally posted by: Common Courtesy
And how many rockets were launched during the 6 month truce in '08.

Hamas grabs a couple of players and ignores the rest.
In your second reference, they arrested a spokesman, not the people that did it.

When the rockets stop, the embargo will be relaxed. That is what ISrael stated.

An analysis of the situation on the ground indicates two distinct periods:
i) A period of relative quiet between June 19 and November 4: As of June 19, there was a marked reduction in the extent of attacks on the western Negev population. The lull was sporadically violated by rocket and mortar shell fire, carried out by rogue terrorist organizations, in some instance in defiance of Hamas (especially by Fatah and Al-Qaeda supporters). Hamas was careful to maintain the ceasefire. The IDF refrained from undertaking counterterrorism activities in the Gaza Strip, taking only routine defensive security measures along the border fence. Between June 19 and November 4, 20 rockets (three of which fell inside the Gaza Strip) and 18 mortar shells (five of which fell inside the Gaza Strip) were fired at Israel.

ii) The escalation and erosion of the lull arrangement, November 4 to the time of this writing, December 172: On November 4 the IDF carried out a military action close to the border security fence on the Gazan side to prevent an abduction planned by Hamas, which had dug a tunnel under the fence to that purpose. Seven Hamas terrorist operatives were killed during the action. In retaliation, Hamas and the other terrorist organizations attacked Israel with a massive barrage of rockets. Since then, 191 rockets and 138 mortar shells have been fired. The attacks have been continuous and some were carried out by weapons not previously used, such as 122mm standard Grad rockets and 120mm mortar shells. Hamas has been directly involved in the attacks in cooperation with the other terrorist organizations.
http://www.terrorism-info.org....g_n/pdf/hamas_e017.pdf
Despite mostly ignoring you, I will say that you have given wonderful examples as to why Common Courtesy is right.
 

palehorse

Lifer
Dec 21, 2005
11,521
0
76
Originally posted by: TheSnowman
Originally posted by: Common Courtesy
And how many rockets were launched during the 6 month truce in '08.

Hamas grabs a couple of players and ignores the rest.
In your second reference, they arrested a spokesman, not the people that did it.

When the rockets stop, the embargo will be relaxed. That is what ISrael stated.

An analysis of the situation on the ground indicates two distinct periods:
i) A period of relative quiet between June 19 and November 4: As of June 19, there was a marked reduction in the extent of attacks on the western Negev population. The lull was sporadically violated by rocket and mortar shell fire, carried out by rogue terrorist organizations, in some instance in defiance of Hamas (especially by Fatah and Al-Qaeda supporters). Hamas was careful to maintain the ceasefire. The IDF refrained from undertaking counterterrorism activities in the Gaza Strip, taking only routine defensive security measures along the border fence. Between June 19 and November 4, 20 rockets (three of which fell inside the Gaza Strip) and 18 mortar shells (five of which fell inside the Gaza Strip) were fired at Israel.

ii) The escalation and erosion of the lull arrangement, November 4 to the time of this writing, December 172: On November 4 the IDF carried out a military action close to the border security fence on the Gazan side to prevent an abduction planned by Hamas, which had dug a tunnel under the fence to that purpose. Seven Hamas terrorist operatives were killed during the action. In retaliation, Hamas and the other terrorist organizations attacked Israel with a massive barrage of rockets. Since then, 191 rockets and 138 mortar shells have been fired. The attacks have been continuous and some were carried out by weapons not previously used, such as 122mm standard Grad rockets and 120mm mortar shells. Hamas has been directly involved in the attacks in cooperation with the other terrorist organizations.
http://www.terrorism-info.org....g_n/pdf/hamas_e017.pdf
Was it your goal to prove Common Courtesy's point for him?
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,699
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Nov 30, 2006
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Originally posted by: jpeyton
UN rights envoy says the Israeli assault constitutes a war crime.

Well, no shit. You kill 1000 civilians indiscriminately...how would it not be?
Intentional killing of civilians is incredibly barbaric and the epitome of cowardice. In this particular department, Hamas is a 100 times more culpable...yet you only show outrage against Israel. How do you manage to rationalize this little fact?
 

kylebisme

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2000
9,396
0
0
Originally posted by: Doc Savage Fan
Intentional killing of civilians is incredibly barbaric and the epitome of cowardice. In this particular department, Hamas is a 100 times more culpable...?
Only in the minds of those with propaganda filled imagination. If you stopped letting yourself be deceived by corporate media and listened to the testimonies of Israeli solders themselves, you'd understand how absurd your argument is:

http://haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1072040.html

http://www.shovrimshtika.org/index_e.asp

Originally posted by: Doc Savage Fan
yet you only show outrage against Israel. How do you manage to rationalize this little fact?
Israel is the only side denying their crimes.
 

jonks

Lifer
Feb 7, 2005
13,918
18
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Originally posted by: TheSnowman
Originally posted by: Doc Savage Fan
Intentional killing of civilians is incredibly barbaric and the epitome of cowardice. In this particular department, Hamas is a 100 times more culpable...?
Only in the minds of those with propaganda filled imagination. If you stopped letting yourself be deceived by corporate media and listened to the testimonies of Israeli solders themselves, you'd understand how absurd your argument is:

http://haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1072040.html

http://www.shovrimshtika.org/index_e.asp

Originally posted by: Doc Savage Fan
yet you only show outrage against Israel. How do you manage to rationalize this little fact?
Israel is the only side denying their crimes.
Israel is addressing and denouncing their crimes, and denouncing the tshirts and denouncing civilian casualties. Hamas targets civilians.

Seriously, run the figures by percentage. What percent of people killed by Israeli soldiers are civilians, and of those, how many civilians were targetted vs collateral damage. Do the same for Hamas and its friends. No one is saying Israel is perfect or makes no mistakes, or has no bad people. Abu Gharib was disgusting but it is not an indictment of the entire US armed forces or US govt which invaded and occupied Iraq with miraculously low civilian casualty rates caused by US attacks. Were there some bad actors in the occupation who murdered civilians? Yes. Does that somehow put the entire military on equal footing with the insurgents who kidnapped entire families and tortured and murdered them with drills? I'm sure in the insurgents' minds both sides are morally equal. Of course they are so far off course when applying drill bits to people's heads is considered acceptable behavior.
 
Nov 30, 2006
15,456
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Originally posted by: TheSnowman
Originally posted by: Doc Savage Fan
Intentional killing of civilians is incredibly barbaric and the epitome of cowardice. In this particular department, Hamas is a 100 times more culpable...?
Only in the minds of those with propaganda filled imagination. If you stopped letting yourself be deceived by corporate media and listened to the testimonies of Israeli solders themselves, you'd understand how absurd your argument is:

http://haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1072040.html

http://www.shovrimshtika.org/index_e.asp

Originally posted by: Doc Savage Fan
yet you only show outrage against Israel. How do you manage to rationalize this little fact?
Israel is the only side denying their crimes.
Did I say Israel was somehow justified? Please reread what I wrote and try again. :roll:

Edit: typo
 

palehorse

Lifer
Dec 21, 2005
11,521
0
76
Maybe we should stop trying to rationalize with the irrational mindset of an As-Sahab Islamist propagandist. Yes Snowman, I'm talking about you. Your message is the same as theirs; which, for any rational person, should be a bit disconcerting...
 

kylebisme

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2000
9,396
0
0
Originally posted by: jonks
Israel is addressing and denouncing their crimes, and denouncing the tshirts and denouncing civilian casualties. Hamas targets civilians.
Nonsense:

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1073208.html

Originally posted by: jonks
Seriously, run the figures by percentage. What percent of people killed by Israeli soldiers are civilians, and of those, how many civilians were targetted vs collateral damage. Do the same for Hamas and its friends.
If you think there is an argument for your postion in that, lets see your figures, sources included please.

Originally posted by: Doc Savage Fan
Originally posted by: TheSnowman
Originally posted by: Doc Savage Fan
Intentional killing of civilians is incredibly barbaric and the epitome of cowardice. In this particular department, Hamas is a 100 times more culpable...?
Only in the minds of those with propaganda filled imagination. If you stopped letting yourself be deceived by corporate media and listened to the testimonies of Israeli solders themselves, you'd understand how absurd your argument is:

http://haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1072040.html

http://www.shovrimshtika.org/index_e.asp

Originally posted by: Doc Savage Fan
yet you only show outrage against Israel. How do you manage to rationalize this little fact?
Israel is the only side denying their crimes.
Did I say Israel was somehow justified? Please reread what I wrote and try again. :roll:

Edit: typo
I didn't say you said Israel was somehow justified. Please reread what I wrote and try again.
 

kylebisme

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2000
9,396
0
0
Originally posted by: palehorse
Maybe we should stop trying to rationalize with the irrational mindset of an As-Sahab Islamist propagandist. Yes Snowman, I'm talking about you. Your message is the same as theirs; which, for any rational person, should be a bit disconcerting...
My comments are based on Israeli and Western news, which I present my sources openly, while you just spout out your ass.
 
Nov 30, 2006
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TheSnowman...Hamas intentionally targets civilians and has been doing so on a wholesale basis for as long as I can remember. Suicide bombers on busses, hotels, Bar Mitzvahs, wedding receptions, etc., etc. They wear no uniforms, they do not target Israel soldiers. They target your Mom, your sister, your Father, your Uncle...and have been doing for a good 50 or so years. Now we have Israel doing the same shit and you cry foul? Give me a break.

For you, this isn't really about the principle that it's wrong to kill civilians regardless of whether it's Israel or Hamas that are commiting the atrocities? <--- Which was the entire point of my post which you obviously missed btw. It's about you rationalizing your extremist ideology that points in horror to Israel and turns a blind eye to the buckets of innocent blood on Hamas' hands. Look up the word 'hypocrite' in the dictionary and then get back to me.
 

kylebisme

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2000
9,396
0
0
Originally posted by: Doc Savage Fan
TheSnowman...Hamas intentionally targets civilians and has been doing so on a wholesale basis for as long as I can remember. Suicide bombers on busses, hotels, Bar Mitzvahs, wedding receptions, etc., etc. They wear no uniforms, they do not target Israel soldiers. They target your Mom, your sister, your Father, your Uncle...and have been doing for a good 50 or so years. Now we have Israel doing the same shit and you cry foul? Give me a break.
I'd rather you come off break and take a good look though the history to realise that Israel has been conducing war on the civilian population of Palestine since long before Hamas existed. Here is a review of a book on the early days which would be a good start:

http://www.globalresearch.ca/i...0070207&articleId=4715

And a documentry from a few years back if reading isn't your thing:

http://video.google.com/videop...cid=746557429802139093

Originally posted by: Doc Savage Fan
For you, this isn't really about the principle that it's wrong to kill civilians regardless of whether it's Israel or Hamas that are commiting the atrocities? <--- Which was the entire point of my post which you obviously missed btw. It's about you rationalizing your extremist ideology that points in horror to Israel and turns a blind eye to the buckets of innocent blood on Hamas' hands. Look up the word 'hypocrite' in the dictionary and then get back to me.
You don't understand me at all. My interest is in taking the power away from the extremists on both sides though promoting understanding of the facts, so that Israel and Palestine can finally exist in peace.

 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,699
3,164
126
Originally posted by: TheSnowman
Originally posted by: Doc Savage Fan
TheSnowman...Hamas intentionally targets civilians and has been doing so on a wholesale basis for as long as I can remember. Suicide bombers on busses, hotels, Bar Mitzvahs, wedding receptions, etc., etc. They wear no uniforms, they do not target Israel soldiers. They target your Mom, your sister, your Father, your Uncle...and have been doing for a good 50 or so years. Now we have Israel doing the same shit and you cry foul? Give me a break.
I'd rather you come off break and take a good look though the history to realise that Israel has been conducing war on the civilian population of Palestine since long before Hamas existed. Here is a review of a book on the early days which would be a good start:

http://www.globalresearch.ca/i...0070207&articleId=4715

And a documentry from a few years back if reading isn't your thing:

http://video.google.com/videop...cid=746557429802139093

Originally posted by: Doc Savage Fan
For you, this isn't really about the principle that it's wrong to kill civilians regardless of whether it's Israel or Hamas that are commiting the atrocities? <--- Which was the entire point of my post which you obviously missed btw. It's about you rationalizing your extremist ideology that points in horror to Israel and turns a blind eye to the buckets of innocent blood on Hamas' hands. Look up the word 'hypocrite' in the dictionary and then get back to me.
You don't understand me at all. My interest is in taking the power away from the extremists on both sides though promoting understanding of the facts, so that Israel and Palestine can finally exist in peace.
Problem is that the facts you are promoting are your own and if you had your way srael would be the one top suffer, regardless of the spin you put on things it is obvious that you are pro-Palestinian and anti-Israeli.........hmmmm....
 
Nov 30, 2006
15,456
389
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Originally posted by: TheSnowman
Originally posted by: Doc Savage Fan
TheSnowman...Hamas intentionally targets civilians and has been doing so on a wholesale basis for as long as I can remember. Suicide bombers on busses, hotels, Bar Mitzvahs, wedding receptions, etc., etc. They wear no uniforms, they do not target Israel soldiers. They target your Mom, your sister, your Father, your Uncle...and have been doing for a good 50 or so years. Now we have Israel doing the same shit and you cry foul? Give me a break.
I'd rather you come off break and take a good look though the history to realise that Israel has been conducing war on the civilian population of Palestine since long before Hamas existed. Here is a review of a book on the early days which would be a good start:

http://www.globalresearch.ca/i...0070207&articleId=4715

And a documentry from a few years back if reading isn't your thing:

http://video.google.com/videop...cid=746557429802139093

Originally posted by: Doc Savage Fan
For you, this isn't really about the principle that it's wrong to kill civilians regardless of whether it's Israel or Hamas that are commiting the atrocities? <--- Which was the entire point of my post which you obviously missed btw. It's about you rationalizing your extremist ideology that points in horror to Israel and turns a blind eye to the buckets of innocent blood on Hamas' hands. Look up the word 'hypocrite' in the dictionary and then get back to me.
You don't understand me at all. My interest is in taking the power away from the extremists on both sides though promoting understanding of the facts, so that Israel and Palestine can finally exist in peace.
Lol...I'm well aware of the history...love your back-handed slam "if reading isn't your thing" and am thoroughly entertained by your link and incredibly biased view which you obviously feel is both rational and objective. You have no clue as to the depth of your bias...do you? But I'll say one thing...I do share your hope that Israel and Palestine will finally coexist in peace...but killing civilians is not exactly the road to that destination is it? Let's at least agree on that.
 

kylebisme

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2000
9,396
0
0
So you knew Israel has been conducing war on the civilian population of Palestine since long before Hamas existed, but deceptively argued "Now we have Israel doing the same shit and you cry foul" anyway, and you are attempting to label me as biased?
 

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