Israeli soldier shoots handcuffed and blindfolded Palestinian

[Czar]

Originally posted by: Sinsear

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: bbdub333

Flagrant violation of the human rights that Israel says is denied to its own people.

One soldier acting out of line, a dude gets shot in the toe with a rubber bullet, sustained no serious injuries, and the military is investigating the incident and saying it is a "direct contradiction of the army's values"...

You're an idiot in other words.

Israel says that the video is misleading.

They said no such thing in that article. Is there some other story where they are saying that, or is this just more typical Israel bashing? (That's a rhetorical question, we already know it is)

These violations occur frequently. It's only when it's filmed do we see it in the news. And your second quote of me came from the video.

According to who?

Everyone who knows anything other than the tiny amount of news stories that make it to the US

 

[Red Dawn]

n/m

 

[StageLeft]

Of course it would out of line, that was blatant.

 

[Acanthus]

rubber bullets in the toe?

this is thread worthy?

 

[Nebor]

Originally posted by: TheSnowman

Originally posted by: Nebor
What they don't tell you is that this guy just blew up a school bus full of Israeli kids. Maybe.

In any case, no tears from me if this (potential) terrorist walks with a limp for a few years.

And maybe they just picked him out of a crowd at random too. But being Arab is enough for you to label him a potential terrorist, eh?

Well whether he was a terrorist or not, clearly the Israelis cared about him to some degree. They put a bag over his head to hide his identity from the other Palestinians who might take vengeance on him or his family if they thought he was cooperating with the good guys.

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: TheSnowman

Originally posted by: Nebor
What they don't tell you is that this guy just blew up a school bus full of Israeli kids. Maybe.

In any case, no tears from me if this (potential) terrorist walks with a limp for a few years.

And maybe they just picked him out of a crowd at random too. But being Arab is enough for you to label him a potential terrorist, eh?

Well whether he was a terrorist or not, clearly the Israelis cared about him to some degree. They put a bag over his head to hide his identity from the other Palestinians who might take vengeance on him or his family if they thought he was cooperating with the good guys.

You making up wild claims and accusations shows how much integrity you have. I feel sorry for the young soldiers that will be under your command. If they capture you in Iraq, maybe the militants can leave you untouched for months, then release you, showered and with new clothes. I'd love to see what your fellow soldiers do to you.

 

[brandonb]

Palestinians are all animals, along with every other Arab or Muslim.

Israel can do no wrong, they are Jewish and were the scapegoats all throughout time. You know, the Holocaust.

Yep, same old same old.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Aimster
When the youth of Israel are going around beating up Arabs inside Israel and the forced to join the military what do u expect?

You mean these youth?

 

[kylebisme]

He means kids like this:

'I kicked the Arab, I stepped on his head'

By Uri Blau

Tags: violence, Arabs, Jerusalem

Dozens of teenage boys from Jerusalem received the same ICQ message: "We're putting an end to all the Arabs who hang out in 'Pisga' [Pisgat Ze'ev] and the mall, whistle at the girls, curse, threaten little kids. Anyone who is Jewish and wants to put an end to all that should be at Burger Ranch at 10 P.M., and we'll finally show them they can't hang in our area anymore. Anyone who is willing to do that and has Jewish blood should add his name to this message."

It would have been difficult to choose a more cynical date on which to send out such a message: Wednesday, April 30, the eve of Holocaust Remembrance Day. Dozens of boys arrived at the meeting place in the Pisgat Ze'ev shopping mall. They streamed in from all parts of the capital, some on foot, some by bus and some driven in by parents. Equipped with knives, sticks and clubs, they all had one purpose: to do harm to Arabs for being Arabs.
...

 

[Nebor]

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: TheSnowman

Originally posted by: Nebor
What they don't tell you is that this guy just blew up a school bus full of Israeli kids. Maybe.

In any case, no tears from me if this (potential) terrorist walks with a limp for a few years.

And maybe they just picked him out of a crowd at random too. But being Arab is enough for you to label him a potential terrorist, eh?

Well whether he was a terrorist or not, clearly the Israelis cared about him to some degree. They put a bag over his head to hide his identity from the other Palestinians who might take vengeance on him or his family if they thought he was cooperating with the good guys.

You making up wild claims and accusations shows how much integrity you have. I feel sorry for the young soldiers that will be under your command. If they capture you in Iraq, maybe the militants can leave you untouched for months, then release you, showered and with new clothes. I'd love to see what your fellow soldiers do to you.

I said maybe and potential. I didn't make any accusations.

 

[ThePresence]

In other news:

An Israel Railways employee was beaten Thursday by a group of Arab youths.

Ronen, a rail inspector for the national carrier, reported that a group of young Arabs confronted him at his guard post at a railway crossing near Atlit, demanded his weapon, and savagely beat him when they discovered he was unarmed.

Ronen can barely speak, as the attackers fractured bones in his face and body. Ronen's parents, speaking to police on behalf of their son, conveyed Ronen's account of the attack, as well as their horror at the result: "I arrived at the post and saw that it was full of blood," Ronen's father said. "I was certain my son had been murdered."

The attack is believed to be "nationalistically" motivated, which would define it as an act of terrorism.

Text

As far as this soldier goes, if he is indeed guilty and this is not another Pallywood production, he should be locked up and and have the key thrown away. He and those like him are an embarrassment to Israel and to the IDF.
Just keep this in mind. Israel is investigating this incident. I'm sure some people here think that the investigation is a joke and the IDF in reality supports this type of counter-productive behavior, and that's your prerogative. You believe what you will. On the other hand, they are not celebrating him as a national hero.

EDIT: The soldier was arrested. Text

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: ThePresence
In other news:

An Israel Railways employee was beaten Thursday by a group of Arab youths.

Ronen, a rail inspector for the national carrier, reported that a group of young Arabs confronted him at his guard post at a railway crossing near Atlit, demanded his weapon, and savagely beat him when they discovered he was unarmed.

Ronen can barely speak, as the attackers fractured bones in his face and body. Ronen's parents, speaking to police on behalf of their son, conveyed Ronen's account of the attack, as well as their horror at the result: "I arrived at the post and saw that it was full of blood," Ronen's father said. "I was certain my son had been murdered."

The attack is believed to be "nationalistically" motivated, which would define it as an act of terrorism.

Text

As far as this soldier goes, if he is indeed guilty and this is not another Pallywood production, he should be locked up and and have the key thrown away. He and those like him are an embarrassment to Israel and to the IDF.
Just keep this in mind. Israel is investigating this incident. I'm sure some people here think that the investigation is a joke and the IDF in reality supports this type of counter-productive behavior, and that's your prerogative. You believe what you will. On the other hand, they are not celebrating him as a national hero.

EDIT: The soldier was arrested. Text

Thank You for adding some sanity to this thread!! Shalom!

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda

Originally posted by: ThePresence
In other news:

An Israel Railways employee was beaten Thursday by a group of Arab youths.

Ronen, a rail inspector for the national carrier, reported that a group of young Arabs confronted him at his guard post at a railway crossing near Atlit, demanded his weapon, and savagely beat him when they discovered he was unarmed.

Ronen can barely speak, as the attackers fractured bones in his face and body. Ronen's parents, speaking to police on behalf of their son, conveyed Ronen's account of the attack, as well as their horror at the result: "I arrived at the post and saw that it was full of blood," Ronen's father said. "I was certain my son had been murdered."

The attack is believed to be "nationalistically" motivated, which would define it as an act of terrorism.

Text

As far as this soldier goes, if he is indeed guilty and this is not another Pallywood production, he should be locked up and and have the key thrown away. He and those like him are an embarrassment to Israel and to the IDF.
Just keep this in mind. Israel is investigating this incident. I'm sure some people here think that the investigation is a joke and the IDF in reality supports this type of counter-productive behavior, and that's your prerogative. You believe what you will. On the other hand, they are not celebrating him as a national hero.

EDIT: The soldier was arrested. Text

Thank You for adding some sanity to this thread!! Shalom!

Some sanity. He comes up with a news article (which I'm sure would've been dismissed if it was a Palestinian getting injured) and then sounds reserved about the video (yeah, those were Palestinians dressed as Israeli soldiers, shooting at another Palestinian).

No doubt there will be a resolution...months after the incident with a reduced sentence, if any. Not holding my breath on justice being carried out here.

 

[kylebisme]

There is no sanity in trying to pass the shooting off as the act of a lone solder when the video clearly shows an officer holding the victim's hands and other solders calasually walking into the scene to inspect the results; or in highlighing the IDF statement saying they are investigating the incident while igoring how Israeli solders commonly abuse Palestinian detaines, yet are rarely procecuted for doing so.

 

[kylebisme]

Oh, yeah:

Originally posted by: ThePresence
I'm sure some people here think that the investigation is a joke and the IDF in reality supports this type of counter-productive behavior, and that's your prerogative.

The behavior isn't counterproductive to the goal of provoking further attacks on Israelis, which Israel has long been using as as an excuse to aviod any peace agreement that would stop them from contenuing to colonize what little of the West Bank the Palestinians have left. Such abuse of Palestinians is only counter productive to that goal when it sullies Israel's reptuation by making the headlines.

 

[BMW540I6speed]

No one can claim moral high ground, both sides have committed atrocities.

A two state solution is official state policy of Isreal & America. Israelis and the Palestinians need to recognise that they have a common interest in finding a way forward.

When discussing this conflict, the first instinct of each is to blame and vilify the other. These selective demonisation threads on this issue is laughable.

 

[ThePresence]

Originally posted by: TheSnowman
Oh, yeah:

Originally posted by: ThePresence
I'm sure some people here think that the investigation is a joke and the IDF in reality supports this type of counter-productive behavior, and that's your prerogative.

The behavior isn't counterproductive to the goal of provoking further attacks on Israelis, which Israel has long been using as as an excuse to aviod any peace agreement that would stop them from contenuing to colonize what little of the West Bank the Palestinians have left. Such abuse of Palestinians is only counter productive to that goal when it sullies Israel's reptuation by making the headlines.

Sure. Israel intentionally does this so as to provoke further attacks. Such paranoia and such blatant one-sided cluelessness about the reality you comment on is typical. I've lived in Israel and I visit annually. I've yet to meet one Israeli who welcomes terrorist attacks. Seek help.

 

[jonks]

Originally posted by: Acanthus
rubber bullets in the toe?

this is thread worthy?

It's pretty typical P&N, especially the uber-misleading thread title. Used to be a lockable offense.

But here's what you have now in terms of palestinian apologists who like to morally equate the actions of both sides:

Originally posted by: BMW540I6speed
No one can claim moral high ground, both sides have committed atrocities.

Israel soldier shoots a bound prisoner in the toe with a rubber bullet. VS
Palestinian blows up a bus full of commuting civilians.

Both are clearly evil acts so both sides are equally evil!!!
Um, yeah.

There is non, zero, nada Israeli policy of intentionally attacking civilians. It would be counter productive to their cause, it loses them international support, it weakens their arguments for peace if they engage in this behavior. When they attack a building where bombs are being built or rockets fired into Israel and civilians die, that is an unintential consequence or collateral damage. It is regretable, and unavoidable.

Palestinians terrorist groups specifically target civilians, are unapologetic about it, and promise to continue to use such tactics until every last one of them is "martyred".

For example, say the technology existed to use "smart bullets" to kill a single target, and only a single target (terrorists or armed insurgents), and you would never see another civilan casualty. Israel would jump on that technology. For the terrorists this would be completely useless since their goal is to kill as many as possible, indiscriminately.

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: TheSnowman
Oh, yeah:

Originally posted by: ThePresence
I'm sure some people here think that the investigation is a joke and the IDF in reality supports this type of counter-productive behavior, and that's your prerogative.

The behavior isn't counterproductive to the goal of provoking further attacks on Israelis, which Israel has long been using as as an excuse to aviod any peace agreement that would stop them from contenuing to colonize what little of the West Bank the Palestinians have left. Such abuse of Palestinians is only counter productive to that goal when it sullies Israel's reptuation by making the headlines.

Sure. Israel intentionally does this so as to provoke further attacks.

That isn't what I suggested. Rather, Israeli leadership generally tollarates such abuse because it helps further their goal of contening to colonize the West Bank.

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: jonks
Israeli open fires on bus full of civilians VS
Palestinian blows up a bus full of commuting civilians.

Both are clearly evil acts so both sides are equally evil!!!
Um, yeah.

Fixed.

 

[jonks]

Originally posted by: TheSnowman

Originally posted by: jonks
Israeli open fires on bus full of civilians VS
Palestinian blows up a bus full of commuting civilians.

Both are clearly evil acts so both sides are equally evil!!!
Um, yeah.

Fixed.

No, you broke it actually.

"A Jewish settler absent without leave from the Israeli army...In a letter he left at his base, Zada wrote that he "could not be part of an organization that expels Jews," according to a copy published."

"We think there is no connection between this and our movement," Shaul Goldstein, the council's deputy chairman, said of the shooting. "He's a terrorist, a lunatic and immoral. He has no connection to my values. He's a criminal and should be treated like one."

An AWOL israeli who felt the army was biased against jews went on an individual shooting spree which was condemned at every level in the Israeli government, armed forces, and civilian groups, and you somehow impute his actions to those groups? Were the Columbine shooters acting on behalf of the United States?

In contrast, the palestinian terror groups who blow up buses, discos, and markets are not individuals acting on their own. They are part of organizations that plan, condone, and organize civilian attacks.

You Fail. hardcore.

 

[ThePresence]

Originally posted by: TheSnowman

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: TheSnowman
Oh, yeah:

Originally posted by: ThePresence
I'm sure some people here think that the investigation is a joke and the IDF in reality supports this type of counter-productive behavior, and that's your prerogative.

The behavior isn't counterproductive to the goal of provoking further attacks on Israelis, which Israel has long been using as as an excuse to aviod any peace agreement that would stop them from contenuing to colonize what little of the West Bank the Palestinians have left. Such abuse of Palestinians is only counter productive to that goal when it sullies Israel's reptuation by making the headlines.

Sure. Israel intentionally does this so as to provoke further attacks.

That isn't what I suggested. Rather, Israeli leadership generally tollarates such abuse because it helps further their goal of contening to colonize the West Bank.

So the Israeli population does not want terrorists to attack them but the Israeli leadership does? Does this sudden change in their mentality of the largest issue in Israeli society happen before or only after they're elected? And the Israeli population knows that their leaders want attacks to happen? Or do they not know, but you've figured it out for them?

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: jonks

Originally posted by: TheSnowman

Originally posted by: jonks
Israeli open fires on bus full of civilians VS
Palestinian blows up a bus full of commuting civilians.

Both are clearly evil acts so both sides are equally evil!!!
Um, yeah.

Fixed.

...

An AWOL israeli who felt the army was biased against jews went on an individual shooting spree and you somehow impute his actions to the government?

I didn't say anything to impute his actions to the government, you came up with that on your own. If you want an example of such callous disregard for human life condoned by the Israeli government, see here.

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: TheSnowman

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: TheSnowman
Oh, yeah:

Originally posted by: ThePresence
I'm sure some people here think that the investigation is a joke and the IDF in reality supports this type of counter-productive behavior, and that's your prerogative.

The behavior isn't counterproductive to the goal of provoking further attacks on Israelis, which Israel has long been using as as an excuse to aviod any peace agreement that would stop them from contenuing to colonize what little of the West Bank the Palestinians have left. Such abuse of Palestinians is only counter productive to that goal when it sullies Israel's reptuation by making the headlines.

Sure. Israel intentionally does this so as to provoke further attacks.

That isn't what I suggested. Rather, Israeli leadership generally tollarates such abuse because it helps further their goal of contening to colonize the West Bank.

So the Israeli population does not want terrorists to attack them but the Israeli leadership does? Does this sudden change in their mentality of the largest issue in Israeli society happen before or only after they're elected? And the Israeli population knows that their leaders want attacks to happen? Or do they not know, but you've figured it out for them?

It is a mixture of all of that and more. I didn't figure it out myself though, It was pointed out to me by an Israeli long ago. Here is one notable example from all the way back in the '67 war:

?Moshe Dayan, the celebrated commander who, as Defense Minister in 1967, gave the order to conquer the Golan...[said] many of the firefights with the Syrians were deliberately provoked by Israel, and the kibbutz residents who pressed the Government to take the Golan Heights did so less for security than for the farmland...[Dayan stated] ?They didn?t even try to hide their greed for the land...We would send a tractor to plow some area where it wasn?t possible to do anything, in the demilitarized area, and knew in advance that the Syrians would start to shoot. If they didn?t shoot, we would tell the tractor to advance further, until in the end the Syrians would get annoyed and shoot.

And then we would use artillery and later the air force also, and that?s how it was...The Syrians, on the fourth day of the war, were not a threat to us.?? The New York Times, May 11, 1997

...

 

[ThePresence]

Originally posted by: TheSnowman

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: TheSnowman

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: TheSnowman
Oh, yeah:

Originally posted by: ThePresence
I'm sure some people here think that the investigation is a joke and the IDF in reality supports this type of counter-productive behavior, and that's your prerogative.

The behavior isn't counterproductive to the goal of provoking further attacks on Israelis, which Israel has long been using as as an excuse to aviod any peace agreement that would stop them from contenuing to colonize what little of the West Bank the Palestinians have left. Such abuse of Palestinians is only counter productive to that goal when it sullies Israel's reptuation by making the headlines.

Sure. Israel intentionally does this so as to provoke further attacks.

That isn't what I suggested. Rather, Israeli leadership generally tollarates such abuse because it helps further their goal of contening to colonize the West Bank.

So the Israeli population does not want terrorists to attack them but the Israeli leadership does? Does this sudden change in their mentality of the largest issue in Israeli society happen before or only after they're elected? And the Israeli population knows that their leaders want attacks to happen? Or do they not know, but you've figured it out for them?

It is a mixture of all of that and more. I didn't figure it out myself though, It was pointed out to me by an Israeli long ago. Here is one notable example from all the way back in the '67 war:

?Moshe Dayan, the celebrated commander who, as Defense Minister in 1967, gave the order to conquer the Golan...[said] many of the firefights with the Syrians were deliberately provoked by Israel, and the kibbutz residents who pressed the Government to take the Golan Heights did so less for security than for the farmland...[Dayan stated] ?They didn?t even try to hide their greed for the land...We would send a tractor to plow some area where it wasn?t possible to do anything, in the demilitarized area, and knew in advance that the Syrians would start to shoot. If they didn?t shoot, we would tell the tractor to advance further, until in the end the Syrians would get annoyed and shoot.

And then we would use artillery and later the air force also, and that?s how it was...The Syrians, on the fourth day of the war, were not a threat to us.?? The New York Times, May 11, 1997

...

All that and more? All WHAT and more? Please be specific.
Your suggestion that this how the Israeli gov. operates today, based on a quote referring to how kibbutz members acted during a war 40 years ago is ridiculous.