Israeli reservists call occupation illegal

[ConantheBarbarian]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/2236534.stm

 

[alexruiz]

Good read!

 

[Matt2]

It's not illegal because Palestine is not a recognized country, therefore it is more like martial law and not an occupation. If Israel is commiting crimes against humanity, then that is a totally different story, but I doubt they are.

 

[WinkOsmosis]

It's wrong but is it illegal?

 

[Queasy]

Interesting read but this part is weird:

Lieutenant David Zonsheine said he was sentenced to 35 days in military prison after refusing reserve duty two months ago.

He said that while serving in the Gaza Strip last year he was forced to hold up Palestinian traffic - including ambulances - at a checkpoint because of a suicide attack warning.

"I don't know how many people died because of the 200 ambulances I delayed there," he told the Associated Press.

"This made me realise there is no way to have an enlightened occupation."

Ok, and who's fault is it that he had to delay ambulances? The Palestinians. They have been known to use ambulances to try to sneak into Israel to commit acts of terror. Not to mention the fact that he wouldn't have had to hold up traffic if there hadn't been a suicide bombing to begin with.

 

[DivideBYZero]

Originally posted by: Matt2
It's not illegal because Palestine is not a recognized country, therefore it is more like martial law and not an occupation. If Israel is commiting crimes against humanity, then that is a totally different story, but I doubt they are.

It WAS:

BBC's Excellent 'History of conflict' detailing all points of importance in the last 100 years

Britain, which had ruled Palestine since 1920, handed over responsibility for solving the Zionist-Arab problem to the UN in 1947.

 

[JShaker]

Originally posted by: Queasy
Interesting read but this part is weird:

Lieutenant David Zonsheine said he was sentenced to 35 days in military prison after refusing reserve duty two months ago. He said that while serving in the Gaza Strip last year he was forced to hold up Palestinian traffic - including ambulances - at a checkpoint because of a suicide attack warning. "I don't know how many people died because of the 200 ambulances I delayed there," he told the Associated Press. "This made me realise there is no way to have an enlightened occupation."

Ok, and who's fault is it that he had to delay ambulances? The Palestinians. They have been known to use ambulances to try to sneak into Israel to commit acts of terror. Not to mention the fact that he wouldn't have had to hold up traffic if there hadn't been a suicide bombing to begin with.

You just about summed up perfectly what I was just about to post.

 

[Czar]

Originally posted by: Queasy
Interesting read but this part is weird:

Lieutenant David Zonsheine said he was sentenced to 35 days in military prison after refusing reserve duty two months ago.

He said that while serving in the Gaza Strip last year he was forced to hold up Palestinian traffic - including ambulances - at a checkpoint because of a suicide attack warning.

"I don't know how many people died because of the 200 ambulances I delayed there," he told the Associated Press.

"This made me realise there is no way to have an enlightened occupation."

Ok, and who's fault is it that he had to delay ambulances? The Palestinians. They have been known to use ambulances to try to sneak into Israel to commit acts of terror. Not to mention the fact that he wouldn't have had to hold up traffic if there hadn't been a suicide bombing to begin with.

these checkpoints are very often not on the border, but between towns, so if someone was shot by and IDF soldier in PalTown1 and the nearest hospital was in PalTown2 and there is a checkpoint between them.

 

[justint]

Originally posted by: JShaker

Originally posted by: Queasy
Interesting read but this part is weird:

Lieutenant David Zonsheine said he was sentenced to 35 days in military prison after refusing reserve duty two months ago. He said that while serving in the Gaza Strip last year he was forced to hold up Palestinian traffic - including ambulances - at a checkpoint because of a suicide attack warning. "I don't know how many people died because of the 200 ambulances I delayed there," he told the Associated Press. "This made me realise there is no way to have an enlightened occupation."

Ok, and who's fault is it that he had to delay ambulances? The Palestinians. They have been known to use ambulances to try to sneak into Israel to commit acts of terror. Not to mention the fact that he wouldn't have had to hold up traffic if there hadn't been a suicide bombing to begin with.

You just about summed up perfectly what I was just about to post.

Thier wouldn't be any suicide bombings if thier was no occupation. You can keep that sort of argument up forever, doesn't change anything on the ground. One immoral and unwise action can not be used to justify another.

 

[Czar]

Originally posted by: Matt2
It's not illegal because Palestine is not a recognized country, therefore it is more like martial law and not an occupation. If Israel is commiting crimes against humanity, then that is a totally different story, but I doubt they are.

Its not Martial Law since the Gaza Strip and the West Bank are not a part of Israel, it is an occupation.

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: justint

Originally posted by: JShaker

Originally posted by: Queasy
Interesting read but this part is weird:

Lieutenant David Zonsheine said he was sentenced to 35 days in military prison after refusing reserve duty two months ago. He said that while serving in the Gaza Strip last year he was forced to hold up Palestinian traffic - including ambulances - at a checkpoint because of a suicide attack warning. "I don't know how many people died because of the 200 ambulances I delayed there," he told the Associated Press. "This made me realise there is no way to have an enlightened occupation."

Ok, and who's fault is it that he had to delay ambulances? The Palestinians. They have been known to use ambulances to try to sneak into Israel to commit acts of terror. Not to mention the fact that he wouldn't have had to hold up traffic if there hadn't been a suicide bombing to begin with.

You just about summed up perfectly what I was just about to post.

Thier wouldn't be any suicide bombings if thier was no occupation. You can keep that sort of argument up forever, doesn't change anything on the ground. One immoral and unwise action can not be used to justify another.

And you can also say that there wouldn't be an occupation if there wasn't suicide bombings. You can also question the use of suicide bombers as an appropriate response to the occupation instead of peaceful resistance.

 

[Czar]

Originally posted by: Queasy

Originally posted by: justint

Originally posted by: JShaker

Originally posted by: Queasy
Interesting read but this part is weird:

Lieutenant David Zonsheine said he was sentenced to 35 days in military prison after refusing reserve duty two months ago. He said that while serving in the Gaza Strip last year he was forced to hold up Palestinian traffic - including ambulances - at a checkpoint because of a suicide attack warning. "I don't know how many people died because of the 200 ambulances I delayed there," he told the Associated Press. "This made me realise there is no way to have an enlightened occupation."

Ok, and who's fault is it that he had to delay ambulances? The Palestinians. They have been known to use ambulances to try to sneak into Israel to commit acts of terror. Not to mention the fact that he wouldn't have had to hold up traffic if there hadn't been a suicide bombing to begin with.

You just about summed up perfectly what I was just about to post.

Thier wouldn't be any suicide bombings if thier was no occupation. You can keep that sort of argument up forever, doesn't change anything on the ground. One immoral and unwise action can not be used to justify another.

And you can also say that there wouldn't be an occupation if there wasn't suicide bombings. You can also question the use of suicide bombers as an appropriate response to the occupation instead of peaceful resistance.

but even if there were no suicde bombings the settlements by the Jewish extremists would still go on

 

[Mookow]

Originally posted by: justint

Originally posted by: JShaker

Originally posted by: Queasy
Interesting read but this part is weird:

Lieutenant David Zonsheine said he was sentenced to 35 days in military prison after refusing reserve duty two months ago. He said that while serving in the Gaza Strip last year he was forced to hold up Palestinian traffic - including ambulances - at a checkpoint because of a suicide attack warning. "I don't know how many people died because of the 200 ambulances I delayed there," he told the Associated Press. "This made me realise there is no way to have an enlightened occupation."

Ok, and who's fault is it that he had to delay ambulances? The Palestinians. They have been known to use ambulances to try to sneak into Israel to commit acts of terror. Not to mention the fact that he wouldn't have had to hold up traffic if there hadn't been a suicide bombing to begin with.

You just about summed up perfectly what I was just about to post.

Thier wouldn't be any suicide bombings if thier was no occupation. You can keep that sort of argument up forever, doesn't change anything on the ground.

If you replace the word "occupation" with "Israel" then I'd agree with you. Since the extremists believe that israel has no right to exist (and I think we can agree that, by definition, no "moderate" person is going to strap explosives to themselves), as long as both Israel and Palestinians with extreme beliefs exist, there will be suicide bombings (or bombings, or shootings, etc).

 

[Czar]

Originally posted by: Mookow

Originally posted by: justint

Originally posted by: JShaker

Originally posted by: Queasy
Interesting read but this part is weird:

Lieutenant David Zonsheine said he was sentenced to 35 days in military prison after refusing reserve duty two months ago. He said that while serving in the Gaza Strip last year he was forced to hold up Palestinian traffic - including ambulances - at a checkpoint because of a suicide attack warning. "I don't know how many people died because of the 200 ambulances I delayed there," he told the Associated Press. "This made me realise there is no way to have an enlightened occupation."

Ok, and who's fault is it that he had to delay ambulances? The Palestinians. They have been known to use ambulances to try to sneak into Israel to commit acts of terror. Not to mention the fact that he wouldn't have had to hold up traffic if there hadn't been a suicide bombing to begin with.

You just about summed up perfectly what I was just about to post.

Thier wouldn't be any suicide bombings if thier was no occupation. You can keep that sort of argument up forever, doesn't change anything on the ground.

If you replace the word "occupation" with "Israel" then I'd agree with you. Since the extremists believe that israel has no right to exist (and I think we can agree that, by definition, no "moderate" person is going to strap explosives to themselves), as long as both Israel and Palestinians with extreme beliefs exist, there will be suicide bombings (or bombings, or shootings, etc).

and the Israeli extremists belive there should be no palestine and Israel should have the same borders as it did originaly

 

[justint]

Originally posted by: Mookow

Originally posted by: justint

Originally posted by: JShaker

Originally posted by: Queasy
Interesting read but this part is weird:

Lieutenant David Zonsheine said he was sentenced to 35 days in military prison after refusing reserve duty two months ago. He said that while serving in the Gaza Strip last year he was forced to hold up Palestinian traffic - including ambulances - at a checkpoint because of a suicide attack warning. "I don't know how many people died because of the 200 ambulances I delayed there," he told the Associated Press. "This made me realise there is no way to have an enlightened occupation."

Ok, and who's fault is it that he had to delay ambulances? The Palestinians. They have been known to use ambulances to try to sneak into Israel to commit acts of terror. Not to mention the fact that he wouldn't have had to hold up traffic if there hadn't been a suicide bombing to begin with.

You just about summed up perfectly what I was just about to post.

Thier wouldn't be any suicide bombings if thier was no occupation. You can keep that sort of argument up forever, doesn't change anything on the ground.

If you replace the word "occupation" with "Israel" then I'd agree with you. Since the extremists believe that israel has no right to exist (and I think we can agree that, by definition, no "moderate" person is going to strap explosives to themselves), as long as both Israel and Palestinians with extreme beliefs exist, there will be suicide bombings (or bombings, or shootings, etc).

It has been proven that the majority of Isrealis and the majority of Palestinians are willing to live together with Isreal and a Palestinian state. It is only the extreme right wing on both sides that espouses the no Israel/No Palestinians view. The problem is no one has yet found a way to succesfully bring that about.

 

[justint]

Originally posted by: Queasy

Originally posted by: justint

Originally posted by: JShaker

Originally posted by: Queasy
Interesting read but this part is weird:

Lieutenant David Zonsheine said he was sentenced to 35 days in military prison after refusing reserve duty two months ago. He said that while serving in the Gaza Strip last year he was forced to hold up Palestinian traffic - including ambulances - at a checkpoint because of a suicide attack warning. "I don't know how many people died because of the 200 ambulances I delayed there," he told the Associated Press. "This made me realise there is no way to have an enlightened occupation."

Ok, and who's fault is it that he had to delay ambulances? The Palestinians. They have been known to use ambulances to try to sneak into Israel to commit acts of terror. Not to mention the fact that he wouldn't have had to hold up traffic if there hadn't been a suicide bombing to begin with.

You just about summed up perfectly what I was just about to post.

Thier wouldn't be any suicide bombings if thier was no occupation. You can keep that sort of argument up forever, doesn't change anything on the ground. One immoral and unwise action can not be used to justify another.

And you can also say that there wouldn't be an occupation if there wasn't suicide bombings. You can also question the use of suicide bombers as an appropriate response to the occupation instead of peaceful resistance.

That isn't true. The Occupataion began long before suicide bombings. The territories were siezed as a bargaining chip for negotiations with the Arabs. However, succesive Israeli governments found that they could easily hold onto them and move in settlers as the Palestinians didn't try to stop them until the Intifada in the mid 80's. If that hadn't happened, thier could be 800,000 settlers in the West Bank right now. Thier wasn't any talk from Israel regarding a peace process or settlement with the Palestinians until they had to face daily crowds of rock throwers, and have these images shown on TV trhoughout the world. The suicide bombings didn't start until the 90's after the peace process began when Rabin was killed by Jewish extremists and Hamas and Islamic Jihad started suicide bombings to derail the peace process which I think has definately worked.

 

[novon]

good read, Sharon needs to step down