Israeli MP says mothers of all Palestinians must be killed

[nageov3t]

I mean, she's just a member of the Israeli Congress... should the entire international community hold America responsible for every boneheaded thing ever said by random Republican congressmen?

 

[Anarchist420]

Nothing new here and a great example why neither side in the conflict really has any interest in finding a way out of their conflict. Each side has to start by giving up something huge. Israel needs to give up the settlements Palestinians have to give up the "right of return". That ship sailed at first in 1948 and finally in 1973. AND they are going to have to jointly find a new paradigm for east Jerusalem.

The Palestinians will never give up their right of return and they will have their Eamon De Valeras (I dont think they'll be lucky enough to have their very own Nelson Mandela) some day but fortunately not in our lifetime.

Calling Jews "nazis" is just repugnant. Grow up and learn to express yourself without being a total tool.

while i dont really agree with him, he actually said "israelis" (not "all jews").

I mean, she's just a member of the Israeli Congress... should the entire international community hold America responsible for every boneheaded thing ever said by random Republican congressmen?

+1

 

[emperus]

Calling Jews "nazis" is just repugnant. Grow up and learn to express yourself without being a total tool.

Ridiculous comment. What he wrote is nowhere close to what you think he wrote.

This is one of the problems of this conflict. That legitimate criticism od Israel is somehow akin to anti-Semitism.

These comments are repugnant and very similar to what the Nazi's did. I'm surprised more people don't see outrage in the comments.

It is a great tragedy that the persecuted have now become the persecutors.

 

[emperus]

I mean, she's just a member of the Israeli Congress... should the entire international community hold America responsible for every boneheaded thing ever said by random Republican congressmen?

Well, tell me any US politician who has called for the extermination of a people and hasn't been held accountable.

 

[Knowing]

Didn't one of them say the Palestinian women should be raped so that the men wouldn't be terrorists anymore?

Found it, not a MP - a professor.
“The only thing that can deter terrorists, like those who kidnapped the children and killed them, is the knowledge that their sister or their mother will be raped.” This assertion was made by Middle East scholar Dr. Mordechai Kedar of Bar-Ilan University about three weeks ago on an Israel Radio program. “It sounds very bad, but that’s the Middle East,” added Kedar, of Bar-Ilan’s Department...


They're really classing this conflict up.

 

[brycejones]

Such nazis discourse are common among israelis whatever their social class,

Ridiculous comment. What he wrote is nowhere close to what you think he wrote.

This is one of the problems of this conflict. That legitimate criticism od Israel is somehow akin to anti-Semitism.

These comments are repugnant and very similar to what the Nazi's did. I'm surprised more people don't see outrage in the comments.

It is a great tragedy that the persecuted have now become the persecutors.

Bull shit, care to read again?

There is much for Israel to be criticized for and I see both parties as being at fault for locking themselves into this conflict. But invoking "nazis" is just lame and repugnant.

 

[emperus]

Bull shit, care to read again?

There is much for Israel to be criticized for and I see both parties as being at fault for locking themselves into this conflict. But invoking "nazis" is just lame and repugnant.

Because calling for the genocide of a people is drastically different?

 

[nageov3t]

Well, tell me any US politician who has called for the extermination of a people and hasn't been held accountable.

"This unfortunate race, whom we had been taking so much pains to save and to civilize, have by their unexpected desertion and ferocious barbarities justified extermination and now await our decision on their fate"

I went to a school named after the guy who gave us that gem.

 

[Harabec]

Didn't one of them say the Palestinian women should be raped so that the men wouldn't be terrorists anymore?

Found it, not a MP - a professor.
“The only thing that can deter terrorists, like those who kidnapped the children and killed them, is the knowledge that their sister or their mother will be raped.” This assertion was made by Middle East scholar Dr. Mordechai Kedar of Bar-Ilan University about three weeks ago on an Israel Radio program. “It sounds very bad, but that’s the Middle East,” added Kedar, of Bar-Ilan’s Department...


They're really classing this conflict up.

No, he did not.
He was originally asked on a radio show what can deter the Hamas leaders, then what can be done about the lower rank fighters\suicide bombers, to which he answered that there is no real deterrent except for that based on his studies.
Other than the fact the he represents mostly himself either way, if you believe otherwise you are free to debate with him about the subject.

 

[hal2kilo]

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/07/16/371556/israel-must-kill-all-palestinian-mothers/

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/0...ans-must-be-killed-israeli-mp/comment-page-1/



Where's the outrage? Can you imagine the outrage if any other foreign official made such a crass comment? Kind of ironic that she wants the sons of Palestinians killed. A modern day Pharaoh.

Hey maybe the Palestinians will get to have their own Passover.

 

[emperus]

"This unfortunate race, whom we had been taking so much pains to save and to civilize, have by their unexpected desertion and ferocious barbarities justified extermination and now await our decision on their fate"

I went to a school named after the guy who gave us that gem.

Yeah, but maybe someone in the last say 5 or even 10 years.

 

[Knowing]

No, he did not.
He was originally asked on a radio show what can deter the Hamas leaders, then what can be done about the lower rank fighters\suicide bombers, to which he answered that there is no real deterrent except for that based on his studies.
Other than the fact the he represents mostly himself either way, if you believe otherwise you are free to debate with him about the subject.

I posted a quote from Haaretz, if he didn't say that then he's free to take it up with them. I even posted a link.

If you can provide context that makes this appear less offensive then by all means - post it.

 

[Harabec]

Unfortunately the english edition of Haaretz seems to be subscriber-only, the hebrew article can be read in full.
If google translate actualy works you can try it: http://www.haaretz.co.il/news/politics/1.2383281

I say once again that he did not advocate the rape of palestinian women and it is not something we would do anyway.
He gave his opinion about how murderers like those who kidnapped the 3 boys can be deterred from doing so, and that opinion amounts to "nearly nothing".
The context here is the matter of family honor and shame being the very few things such murderers will likely care about.

 

[Knowing]

Following the publication of the things sent today feminist activists a letter to President Bar-Ilan University, Rabbi Prof. Daniel Hershkowitz, which referred to the words of Kedar "incitement which give legitimacy to the IDF soldiers and Israeli citizens rape and endangering Israeli women and Palestinian alike. Remarks of Kedar echoing phrases referred Corrective rape as a practice, even though it was a crime of war."

If you're not advocating what you're saying as a solution, it's probably best not to say it at all.

For the avoidance of doubt: no words of Dr. Kedar God forbid a recommendation to do such despicable acts. The intention was to set the culture of death by terrorist organizations. Dr. Kidder described in words the bitter reality of the Middle East and the inability of the state of modern law and liberal fight terror of suicide bombers."

If the same words were altered slightly to reflect the American experience, the professor would lose their job and probably find it very difficult to find another.

 

[Shyatic]

It seems to me that she has a pretty mature view of how to defeat an insurgency. You can't win the hearts and minds of people who are actively supporting the insurgents. You have to starve them, brutalize them, and kill them until they're so broken that the only point of hope in their lives lies in complete surrender.

So a big thumbs up from me. I like it when people say what they mean and mean what they say.

Except that when you have "God" involved, nobody will ever give up.

 

[Harabec]

If the same words were altered slightly to reflect the American experience, the professor would lose their job and probably find it very difficult to find another.

Perhaps...perhaps not. Our daily reality is different and opinions cannot be heard in a vacuum. An American professor would likely have no reason to say that or even be asked about it in the first place.

 

[emperus]

Perhaps...perhaps not. Our daily reality is different and opinions cannot be heard in a vacuum. An American professor would likely have no reason to say that or even be asked about it in the first place.

Lol. That's always a way to excuse any behavior innit?

 

[werepossum]

It's a pretty horrendous thing to say, it's just difficult to get Americans worked up about politicians saying stupid things. We're kind of desensitized that way. We do still get worked up about people committing violence, just not so much about people talking violence.

Welcome back, Sandeagle.

 

[Moonbeam]

The Jews are in the unfortunate position of having had done to them what they would like to do to the Palestinians. We always become what we fear. It is so deeply sad, for the Jews, the Palestinians and the rest of us.

Every Palestinian baby could be raised to be a Jew and every Jewish baby a Palestinian. We are all the same, all members on this or that group determined to kill this or that other, for land, for religion, for politics, all of us right and on the right side, any one of millions of them. We adults kill our children's hope for the future in their name.

 

[werepossum]

Except that when you have "God" involved, nobody will ever give up.

I don't know that's necessarily true. The Christian wars in Europe between the Catholics and Protestants made this look like collegiate sports and they eventually made peace even after damn near a century of wholesale civilian massacres driven my religion. Surely if seventeenth century Christians could do it, twenty-first century Jews and Palestinians can do it.

As Moonie says, it's destroying our children's future in their name.

 

[Exophase]

In the comments of the Rolling Stone article is a translation of a response given by Shaked:

"Let’s start with my July 1 Facebook post. It was written some 12 years ago, but never published, by a dear man, the recently departed journalist Uri Elitzur. The gist of his article was that once one side in a war attacks the other side’s civilians, they can no longer morally claim a special status for their own civilians.

Go ahead, ask a Hebrew speaking friend to translate it for you, they’ll confirm this is what my Facebook post was about. But you’ll find not a trace of that in Resnick’s account. Perhaps it’s his own ignorance of the Hebrew language. After all, he got the text from Electronic Intifada, a website dedicated to daily and hourly vilification of my country.

All Resnick had to do to make Elitzur’s sober, legally minded discussion sound like a speech made by Hitler himself, was to cherry pick words out of context. A call for the indiscriminate killing of children is a terrible thing. But what if the statement was that any time you attack our children, you’re exposing your own people to the same fate? Still unsettling, but rational when you consider their civilian population is actively supporting and participating in their war and terror efforts. It’s not a call for indiscriminate murder.

And then Resnick turned to character assassination. He cited an attack on me by Haaretz. They said I was “representative of an ideology unembarrassed by its racism.”

Haaretz, unfortunately, may look like the NY Times, but it is far from being a liberal, curious newspaper in the Anglo Saxon tradition. Expecting Haaretz to write about a political opponent like myself in an honest, informative—if critical—manner, is a little like expecting Gideon Resnick to offer an unbiased, honest citation from a pro-Zionist post.

And so, when Haaretz, read by a mere 30,000 Israelis, give or take, says I’m racist – I’d look for a more reliable source.

Then, in a second article, Resnick also sneaks in the dumb female bit: “the 38-year-old Shaked is also frequently the target of subtle sexism, at best referred to as ‘a young and pretty secular woman.’” And the citation is from – you guessed it, Haaretz. In fact, Electronic Intifada and Haaretz are Resnick’s only sources, other than his brutalization of the Elitzur piece.

Resnick’s distortions aside, the fact is that international pressure on Israel has not yielded peace because Israel is not starting the wars.

1. Hamas and the Palestinian Authority are engaged in terrorism, one overtly, the other in a supportive role. Money is being transferred from the PA to the families of suicide bombers and convicted murderers in Israeli jails. The pay is actually based on the number and severity of the murders committed. The more gruesome the murder, the larger the number of Israeli victims, the higher the monthly reward.

Can anyone deny it?

2. Palestinian education today is based on violence and incitement against Israelis and Jews. Palestinian textbooks and Palestinianmedia ceaselessly promote Jew hatred. They praise Jew murderers. Their heroes and celebrities are Jew killers. They name streets and traffic circles after killers of Jewish children.

Can anyone deny it?

At the same time, the murder of Jerusalem teenager Mohammed Abu Khdeir was immediately condemned by all of Israel’s society.

As a Knesset Member, I can assure you his murderers, once convicted for their terrible crime, will remain in prison for the rest of their lives.

We will certainly not name streets after them.

3. In Israel we protect our citizens from incoming Hamas missiles.

Hamas, on the other hand, positions its missile launchers in the midst of civilian enclaves, using women and children as human shields against Israeli raids.

Just the other day, the world watched a Hamas spokesman admitting they instructed civilians not to leave their Gaza homes during air strikes, in order to protect those arsenals of weapons.

Each Palestinian rocket coming out of Gaza represents two separate war crimes: one for purposely targeting a civilian population in Israel, the other for launching from within their own civilian population.

Not many journalists bother to share this information with their readers. It confuses the narrative, messes with the David and Goliath scenario.

Our residents in southern Israel have endured these missiles for more than 14 years. Many children and teens have known only life in a war zone. This past week, all our urban centers were targeted. How would you expect our government to react? How would you want your own government to deal with a similar onslaught on your neighborhood? What do you want us to do? Lie down and die?

The late Uri Elitzur wrote so eloquently in the article I cited on Facebook:

“The laws of war acknowledge that it is impossible to avoid hitting enemy civilians. Those laws did not condemn the British airforce for firebombing and completely destroying the German city of Dresden, or US planes for wrecking the cities of Poland and half of Hungary’s Budapest, whose residents had never done anything against America. Those sites had to be destroyed in order to win the war against evil.”
​

Israel’s fight against Hamas terrorism is similar to NATO’s war on Al-Qaeda terrorism. Moreover, Israel is the only state who is notifying civilians to leave their homes before an attack by texting them.

Israel has no agenda against Arab civilians in Gaza, just as the US has none against Arabs in any of the countries where it’s conducting its now 13-year war to preserve civilization from violent barbarism.

We want a good life, with peace and prosperity for all the eight million plus people living between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea.

Indeed, if the Arab society enjoys prosperity, so will Jewish society, and vice versa. let me be very clear I condemn any kind of assault against innocent civilians, whether they are Jews or Arabs.

But in order to get there, they must stop firing rockets at us.

The madness of Hamas continued yesterday after Israel embraced an Egyptian call for a ceasefire. Hamas rejected the offer, and as of now has been shooting at all over Israel with renewed vigor.

Israelis are so used to the scene where we offer our hand in peace and the other side reacts by trying to cut it off, that we’re not even surprised. What does surprise us, time and again, are the voices in the West, like Resnick’s, which pin the blame for this madness on us. As in that famous quip: “It all started when Israel retaliated.”

As an aside, I’ll point out that a week later The Daily Beast finally removed one blatant lie from Resnick’s original article, where he accused me of being the author of statements I never made.

But this correction is too little, too late, the damage has already been done.

And so, you must ask yourselves, do you really want to continue getting your news reports about my country from writers who view the truth as little more than a needless inconvenience?"

I personally don't really see a context in which Elitzer's writings can be justified. Calling all of Palestine the enemy and writing off civilian death as an unavoidable consequence of war is a vile mentality. This man also opposed Israel withdrawing from Sinai. Posting an article and calling him "eloquent" was incredibly foolish and it's hard not to question her mindset too. That said, I don't think she actually supports a position of genocide against all Palestinians (or mothers of all Palestinians), at least not publicly.

 

[JockoJohnson]

Ridiculous comment. What he wrote is nowhere close to what you think he wrote.

This is one of the problems of this conflict. That legitimate criticism od Israel is somehow akin to anti-Semitism.

These comments are repugnant and very similar to what the Nazi's did. I'm surprised more people don't see outrage in the comments.

It is a great tragedy that the persecuted have now become the persecutors.

I am going to pull a Moonbeam and come completely out of left field: Now you know how others feel when you accuse them of being racist when there was legitimate criticism of Trayvon and his supporters.

 

[JockoJohnson]

The Jews are in the unfortunate position of having had done to them what they would like to do to the Palestinians. We always become what we fear. It is so deeply sad, for the Jews, the Palestinians and the rest of us.

Every Palestinian baby could be raised to be a Jew and every Jewish baby a Palestinian. We are all the same, all members on this or that group determined to kill this or that other, for land, for religion, for politics, all of us right and on the right side, any one of millions of them. We adults kill our children's hope for the future in their name.

....except if they have that conservative brain defect. Then they are not all the same.

 

[Harabec]

Lol. That's always a way to excuse any behavior innit?

I'm not excusing his behavior, simply saying that living in different places under different circumstances will most likely give birth to different attitudes about things.
He received a lot of flak for it as well.

 

[emperus]

I am going to pull a Moonbeam and come completely out of left field: Now you know how others feel when you accuse them of being racist when there was legitimate criticism of Trayvon and his supporters.

Unless you can find a post of me calling someone racist who had a legitimate criticism of someone who made comments remotely similar to the ones made in this thread then I'm not playing this game with you.

If you want to discuss racism as it relates to why people idolized George Zimmerman then go bump one of the George Zimmerman threads.