Israeli bombardment kills 40 civilians

[Dari]

Originally posted by: SamurAchzar

Go ahead and tell me what YOU think are going to be the results of this conflict with Hizbullah, and we'll see who's right in a week or two.

LOL. A week or two. Yeah. Try 10-15 YEARS from now. I'm sure the Israelis 20 years ago thought that occupying Lebanon would've brought about peace as well. Well, it hasn't and looking two weeks ahead says that your mean interest in this is propaganda, not a real peace. Good luck to you and your countrymen. God willing, you'll use your brain instead of your brawn to solve your problems.

 

[SamurAchzar]

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: SamurAchzar

Go ahead and tell me what YOU think are going to be the results of this conflict with Hizbullah, and we'll see who's right in a week or two.

LOL. A week or two. Yeah. Try 10-15 YEARS from now. I'm sure the Israelis 20 years ago thought that occupying Lebanon would've brought about peace as well. Well, it hasn't and looking two weeks ahead says that your mean interest in this is propaganda, not a real peace. Good luck to you and your countrymen. God willing, you'll use your brain instead of your brawn to solve your problems.

I'd say occupying Lebanon brought better results than retreating and letting Hizbullah do whatever it pleases.

YOU DON'T GET REAL PEACE BY LETTING TERRORISTS ATTACK YOU WITH NO RETALIATION, YOU ONLY GET MORE TERROR.

 

[cumhail]

Originally posted by: SamurAchzar

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: SamurAchzar

Go ahead and tell me what YOU think are going to be the results of this conflict with Hizbullah, and we'll see who's right in a week or two.

LOL. A week or two. Yeah. Try 10-15 YEARS from now. I'm sure the Israelis 20 years ago thought that occupying Lebanon would've brought about peace as well. Well, it hasn't and looking two weeks ahead says that your mean interest in this is propaganda, not a real peace. Good luck to you and your countrymen. God willing, you'll use your brain instead of your brawn to solve your problems.

I'd say occupying Lebanon brought better results than retreating and letting Hizbullah do whatever it pleases.

YOU DON'T GET REAL PEACE BY LETTING TERRORISTS ATTACK YOU WITH NO RETALIATION, YOU ONLY GET MORE TERROR.

I don't know how to break this to you; but the results that occupying Lebanon brought specifically include Hezbollah.

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: SamurAchzar

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: SamurAchzar

Go ahead and tell me what YOU think are going to be the results of this conflict with Hizbullah, and we'll see who's right in a week or two.

LOL. A week or two. Yeah. Try 10-15 YEARS from now. I'm sure the Israelis 20 years ago thought that occupying Lebanon would've brought about peace as well. Well, it hasn't and looking two weeks ahead says that your mean interest in this is propaganda, not a real peace. Good luck to you and your countrymen. God willing, you'll use your brain instead of your brawn to solve your problems.

I'd say occupying Lebanon brought better results than retreating and letting Hizbullah do whatever it pleases.

YOU DON'T GET REAL PEACE BY LETTING TERRORISTS ATTACK YOU WITH NO RETALIATION, YOU ONLY GET MORE TERROR.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. You went in to Lebanon to destroy one terrorist organization, the PLO, and another one followed you home. Hezbullah was created during the Israeli occupation of southern Lebanon.

The fact is you can never destroy a guerilla movement. The only reason why the PLO doesn't exist as a formidable military foe today isn't because of military defeat but because of a PEACE treaty. Come man, think about things for a second. I know you're smarter than that.

You sound frustrated, Samur, like your political masters in Israel.

 

[IrateLeaf]

YOU DON'T GET REAL PEACE BY LETTING TERRORISTS ATTACK YOU WITH NO RETALIATION, YOU ONLY GET MORE TERROR

Peace is not a process. Peace is a state of being. It is impossible to jump directly from a state of war into a state of peace without winning the war. The state of peace does not happen because one of the warring parties sees it in its dreams and simply stops fighting. It happens only when the enemy is defeated. It happens only when the enemy has no other choice but to accept its defeat and sign the peace treaty on the conditions dictated by the victories party.

True, peace also happens when both sides genuinely want it. The key words in this statement are "both" and "genuinely." Hezbollah actions unequivocally show that these two words are absolutely not applicable here, leaving Israel only with one viable option--to fight this war using all available resources. Then, when the victory is achieved, the peace process will begin.

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: IrateLeaf
YOU DON'T GET REAL PEACE BY LETTING TERRORISTS ATTACK YOU WITH NO RETALIATION, YOU ONLY GET MORE TERROR

Peace is not a process. Peace is a state of being. It is impossible to jump directly from a state of war into a state of peace without winning the war. The state of peace does not happen because one of the warring parties sees it in its dreams and simply stops fighting. It happens only when the enemy is defeated. It happens only when the enemy has no other choice but to accept its defeat and sign the peace treaty on the conditions dictated by the victories party.

True, peace also happens when both sides genuinely want it. The key words in this statement are "both" and "genuinely." Hezbollah actions unequivocally show that these two words are absolutely not applicable here, leaving Israel only with one viable option--to fight this war using all available resources. Then, when the victory is achieved, the peace process will begin.

The peace process did begin with the OSLO Accord. It was destroyed by Hamas, an organization that Israel initially supported because it was also fighting against the PLO, with its constant suicide bombings during the 1990s and 2000 and beyond. What did Israel do? They weakened the Palestinian government. Hezbullah is a product of Iran. Even the Iranians have admitted that they WILL RESPECT AN AGREEMENT BETWEEN ISRAEL and PALESTINE. However, so long as Israel undermines a Palestinian government, Iran, through Hezbullah, will undermine Israeli security.

And yes, you're right, peace can come about when one side loses and another wins. The problem here is that you can NEVER defeat a guerilla army because it is more or less an ideology that can be morphed into another caricature. Two standing armies can sign a treaty, but never one between a guerilla unit and a standing army. Therefore, the only solution is towards a comprehensive resolution that recognizes the guerillas' main points of contention. In other words, you need to talk to, rather than fight, them. Battles may be won by an army, but never the war.

 

[SamurAchzar]

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: SamurAchzar

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: SamurAchzar

Go ahead and tell me what YOU think are going to be the results of this conflict with Hizbullah, and we'll see who's right in a week or two.

LOL. A week or two. Yeah. Try 10-15 YEARS from now. I'm sure the Israelis 20 years ago thought that occupying Lebanon would've brought about peace as well. Well, it hasn't and looking two weeks ahead says that your mean interest in this is propaganda, not a real peace. Good luck to you and your countrymen. God willing, you'll use your brain instead of your brawn to solve your problems.

I'd say occupying Lebanon brought better results than retreating and letting Hizbullah do whatever it pleases.

YOU DON'T GET REAL PEACE BY LETTING TERRORISTS ATTACK YOU WITH NO RETALIATION, YOU ONLY GET MORE TERROR.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. You went in to Lebanon to destroy one terrorist organization, the PLO, and another one followed you home. Hezbullah was created during the Israeli occupation of southern Lebanon.

The fact is you can never destroy a guerilla movement. The only reason why the PLO doesn't exist as a formidable military foe today isn't because of military defeat but because of a PEACE treaty. Come man, think about things for a second. I know you're smarter than that.

You sound frustrated, Samur, like your political masters in Israel.

Don't try to make the Hizballah something they aren't. They are not the romantic freedom fighters some of the guys here think they are. They are the extension of Iran's regime, which supports turning Lebanon into an Islamic Shariah controlled state, much like Iran, Saudi Arabia and the Afgahnistan of the Taliban days.

Saying that you can't win a war against Guerilla means that you essentially always loose every war against them. Using that logic, anyone could achieve any goal by starting a Guerilla war.

I agree that you can't destroy it completely as it's an idea, and you can't destroy those. But you can fight it day by day, using better arms and better training and bring back results.

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: SamurAchzar

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: SamurAchzar

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: SamurAchzar

Go ahead and tell me what YOU think are going to be the results of this conflict with Hizbullah, and we'll see who's right in a week or two.

LOL. A week or two. Yeah. Try 10-15 YEARS from now. I'm sure the Israelis 20 years ago thought that occupying Lebanon would've brought about peace as well. Well, it hasn't and looking two weeks ahead says that your mean interest in this is propaganda, not a real peace. Good luck to you and your countrymen. God willing, you'll use your brain instead of your brawn to solve your problems.

I'd say occupying Lebanon brought better results than retreating and letting Hizbullah do whatever it pleases.

YOU DON'T GET REAL PEACE BY LETTING TERRORISTS ATTACK YOU WITH NO RETALIATION, YOU ONLY GET MORE TERROR.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. You went in to Lebanon to destroy one terrorist organization, the PLO, and another one followed you home. Hezbullah was created during the Israeli occupation of southern Lebanon.

The fact is you can never destroy a guerilla movement. The only reason why the PLO doesn't exist as a formidable military foe today isn't because of military defeat but because of a PEACE treaty. Come man, think about things for a second. I know you're smarter than that.

You sound frustrated, Samur, like your political masters in Israel.

Don't try to make the Hizballah something they aren't. They are not the romantic freedom fighters some of the guys here think they are. They are the extension of Iran's regime, which supports turning Lebanon into an Islamic Shariah controlled state, much like Iran, Saudi Arabia and the Afgahnistan of the Taliban days.

Saying that you can't win a war against Guerilla means that you essentially always loose every war against them. Using that logic, anyone could achieve any goal by starting a Guerilla war.

I agree that you can't destroy it completely as it's an idea, and you can't destroy those. But you can fight it day by day, using better arms and better training and bring back results.

You will never destroy it because it can always morph into something else. You can only defeat it by listening to their points of contentions. Guerillas exist because of backing. They have backing because their reasoning is sound. So long as a guerilla's army goal is logical, then they will win via attrition...ALWAYS. Here is a thread I made that was lockedlink:

Terrorism is perhaps the greatest catalyst to the political-economy. In my opinion, it even surpasses democracy. Why? Because all forms of leadership becomes complacent, corrupt, and hostile to those that are ruled, whether they are the willing (compatriots) or the unwilling (the subjugated). Over time, the corrupt leadership becomes resented and an insurgency forms, with the tacit support of those in opposition. While some of these insurgency are non-violent, most are brutal in their vengence because of the length of abuse by leadership. These insurgents terrorize the leadership, hoping for defeat. Eventually, they ALWAYS defeat the status-quo, if not the leadership itself. This can come in two forms: One is the overthrow of the leadership while the other is the changing of directives (i.e. laws) so that the oppressed are given equal rights under the sun. However, just as in the book Animal Farm, the new leadership can become complacent, corrupt and/or hostile to the subjugates and/or compatriots, continuing the cycle of power. This cycle is perhaps a corollary to the Wheels of Fortune first described by the Greek historian Herodotus.



For those that want to dismiss my opinion, let's not forget that this nation was founded by terrorists, and their first leader was George Washington. The terrorists received financial, military, and political support from the nation of France.

Still don't believe me? Well, the first Prime Minister of Israel, David Ben-Gurion, was a wanted man throughout Europe and was head of the terrorist organization Irgun which bombed British and Arab interests.

Even the enlightened state of France rose up in rebellion against their king and then against Hitler. Those in opposition could've easily been called terrorists by Hitler or the deposed king.

In fact, I believe that almost every nation on earth was either founded or ruled by terrorists. So whether they are terrorists or freedom fighters, the point is moot. What matters is that you take their demands seriously or risk a fight that you cannot win. Americans must remember that this nation was founded and is based upon Masonic principles. In fact, the first official bird of the USA was the mythical Phoenix. What's spectular about the Phoenix is that it destroys itself in a blazing fireball, then rising from its own ashes. The allegory is that there is life in death, or regeneration. So that whatever is rotten or near death will eventually be born again. The issue for nations (the political-economy) is what the catalyst of death will be. Will it be through choice (the changing of directives) or real death? The choice is up to the leadership.

 

[SamurAchzar]

All is well, but what happens when the main grief behind a terrorist organization is the existence of another?

How can you stop Al Qaeda for example?

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: SamurAchzar
All is well, but what happens when the main grief behind a terrorist organization is the existence of another?

How can you stop Al Qaeda for example?

Al Qaeda came about because of American double-standard in the Muslim world. How can we preach democracy when we support the dictators in the ME, they ask? Our response? "..." The truth is Al Qaeda, like all terrorist organizations, is a transitory force that comes about to "represent" the aggrieved. Once the leadership has recognized and fixed the aggrieved problems, or is entirely defeated, then support for such organizations will dissipate or they will be assimilated, seeing that their job is done. When the state of Israel was created, the Irgun ceased to exist because its mission had been completed. The same is true of the guerilla army fighting Americans in Vietnam. It's also true of the liberators in Western Europe during WWII.

These organizations come to pass when their demands have been met, one way or another. They are basically an armed wing of the civilians they claim to represent or those that support their cause.

EDIT: Israel is a synthetic nation, created from nothing in an unnatural way. Sorry, but that's the best way I can describe it. The same is true of most African countries. Nevertheless, Arabs don't expect the Israelis to pack up and leave anytime soon. Therefore, they will settle for the original partition.