Israeli bombardment kills 40 civilians

Gamer X

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Feb 11, 2005
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Reuters

By Lin Noueihed

BEIRUT (Reuters) - Israeli bombardment killed at least 40 civilians in Lebanon on Friday and Hizbollah launched its longest-range rocket attack of the war as world powers tried to overcome their differences on how to end the fighting.

One Israeli air strike hit a farm near Qaa, close to the Syrian border in the Bekaa Valley where workers, mostly Syrian Kurds, were loading plums and peaches onto trucks, local officials said. They said 33 people were killed and 20 wounded.

Television footage showed bodies of what appeared to be farm workers lined up near the ruins of a small structure in fruit groves. Strewn nearby were fruit baskets.

"I was picking peaches when three bombs hit. Others were having lunch and they were torn to pieces," said Mohammad Rashed, one of the wounded. Syria's official news agency said 17 of the dead were Syrian workers, five of them women.

"The air force spotted a truck that was suspected to have been loaded with weapons cross from Syria into Lebanon on a route that is routinely used to transport weapons," said an Israeli army spokesman. "The truck entered into a building and remained inside for an hour, then left and returned to Syria."

He said that when the truck left, the building was attacked.

It was one of the deadliest air strikes in 24 days of war. An air raid in the town of Qana on Sunday killed up to 54 civilians, Lebanese officials say. Human Rights Watch says it has confirmed 28 dead in that attack and 13 people missing.
 

RichardE

Banned
Dec 31, 2005
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Sad that this happened, but not suprising. They know of the suspected Syrian equipment being sent to Hez, I can see where Israel made the assumption.

On a side note, as sad as this was, these people should have thought about what this looked like before letting a truck go betweem that border.
 

3chordcharlie

Diamond Member
Mar 30, 2004
9,859
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Originally posted by: RichardE
Sad that this happened, but not suprising. They know of the suspected Syrian equipment being sent to Hez, I can see where Israel made the assumption.

On a side note, as sad as this was, these people should have thought about what this looked like before letting a truck go betweem that border.

Just because a route is routinely used to transport weapons doesn't mean the vast majority of travel isn't perfectly legitimate.

Flights from South America are routinely used to transport drugs.
 

RichardE

Banned
Dec 31, 2005
10,246
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Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie
Originally posted by: RichardE
Sad that this happened, but not suprising. They know of the suspected Syrian equipment being sent to Hez, I can see where Israel made the assumption.

On a side note, as sad as this was, these people should have thought about what this looked like before letting a truck go betweem that border.

Just because a route is routinely used to transport weapons doesn't mean the vast majority of travel isn't perfectly legitimate.

Flights from South America are routinely used to transport drugs.

Um...

The country is in a war with a militia/guerilla group, who is being sponsored by Syria/Lebannon. The situation is a little different.
 

cumhail

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Apr 1, 2003
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So when civilians are killed in Qana, it's their fault because they're in Southern Lebanon and shouldn't be and if they're killed further North, it's their fault because they're nearer to Syria. The only other border for Lebanon is the Mediterranean, after all... Heck, maybe if the next time Lebanese civilians are bombed, it's near the coast, it can just be argued they were too near water routes which are routinely used to transport swordfish and water pistols.

For a nation that says it wants nothing more than the right and ability to exist, they sure do seem to be doing everything in their power to take away Lebanon's.
 

Termagant

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Mar 10, 2006
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Originally posted by: cumhail
So when civilians are killed in Qana, it's their fault because they're in Southern Lebanon and shouldn't be and if they're killed further North, it's their fault because they're nearer to Syria. The only other border for Lebanon is the Mediterranean, after all... Heck, maybe if the next time Lebanese civilians are bombed, it's near the coast, it can just be argued they were too near water routes which are routinely used to transport swordfish and water pistols.

For a nation that says it wants nothing more than the right and ability to exist, they sure do seem to be doing everything in their power to take away Lebanon's.

As they should. Lebanon is a terrorist sympathizing, terrorist harboring nation which thought it could get away with it because it was the "civilized" "Paris of the Middle East."

How can you allow 1/3rd of your country to be ruled by a guerrilla army attacking Israel and not expect consequences?
 

RichardE

Banned
Dec 31, 2005
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Originally posted by: cumhail
So when civilians are killed in Qana, it's their fault because they're in Southern Lebanon and shouldn't be and if they're killed further North, it's their fault because they're nearer to Syria. The only other border for Lebanon is the Mediterranean, after all... Heck, maybe if the next time Lebanese civilians are bombed, it's near the coast, it can just be argued they were too near water routes which are routinely used to transport swordfish and water pistols.

For a nation that says it wants nothing more than the right and ability to exist, they sure do seem to be doing everything in their power to take away Lebanon's.

So if your country was in a war, and you lived right besides a known gun running route, you would be fine transporting a truck back and forth? I would hope the people of Lebannon were smarter than this, I suppose not.

On another note, I would hardly be suprised if this was a gun running farm and Hez were using the civilians as shields as they do so often.
 

SamurAchzar

Platinum Member
Feb 15, 2006
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Originally posted by: Termagant
How can you allow 1/3rd of your country to be ruled by a guerrilla army attacking Israel and not expect consequences?

That's a very good summary of the situation. Or as someone said once, "You better quit talking sense, mister, we don't want to kind of behavior around here"



 

Kadarin

Lifer
Nov 23, 2001
44,296
16
81
In a war, civilians will die because they happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. Bombs miss their target, and people will mistakenly target things that look like war targets but are not. It happens, it has always happened throughout history, and it will continue to happen. Nobody is infallible in this regard. Israel does not deliberately target civilians.

Hezbollah, on the other hand, deliberately targets civilians with rockets designed to spray shrapnel and ball bearings. Hezbollah also places military targets within civilian areas and infrastructure, to (a) avoid getting targeted, and (b) to capitalize on propaganda in case they do.

Hezbollah needs to be destroyed.
 

SamurAchzar

Platinum Member
Feb 15, 2006
2,422
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And just in case it got mistakenly overlooked -


Hezbollah uses Christian villages as shields in missile attacks
Catholic News Agency

Posted on 08/04/2006 8:04:22 AM PDT by NYer

Washington DC, (CNA) - Recent reports indicate that Hezbollah is using Christian villages to shield its attacks against Israel.

According to Christian Solidarity International, Hezbollah is hiding among civilian populations, mostly in southern Lebanese towns, such as Ain Ebel, Rmeish, Alma Alshaab.

Launching attacks behind human shields is in violation of the Geneva Convention's provision for the Protection of Victims of International Armed Conflicts, which prohibits the use of civilians as military shields.

This is not a new strategy for Hezbollah. Col. Charbel Barka, a former South Lebanese Army commander, says Hezbollah is repeating what it did in attacks against Israel in 1996.

A Christian from the village of Ain Ebel, who requested to remain nameless for fear of a reprisal from Hezbollah, reported that he found Hezbollah fighters setting up a launcher on his rooftop. Hezbollah fighters ignored his pleas to stop and fired the missiles. He immediately gathered his family and fled his home, which was bombed 15 minutes later by an Israeli air strike.

Hezbollah has also attempted to stop Christians from fleeing their villages. According to Christian Solidarity International, on July 28, Hezbollah fighters fired upon several Christians fleeing Rmeish with their families, wounding two.

Sami El-Khoury, president of the World Maronite Union, adds that media reports about Christian support for Hezbollah are inaccurate.

"Contrary to Western press reports, indicating high percentages of Christian support for Hezbollah, 90 percent of Christians, 80 percent of Sunni and 40 percent of Shiites in Lebanon oppose Hezbollah," El-Khoury told Christian Solidarity International.

Christian Solidarity International has called for the United Nations to establish a politically independent commission to investigate Hezbollah's contravention of international law. The group has also urged the UN Security Council to deploy immediately an international force in Lebanon to facilitate a ceasefire, to stop the flow of arms from Syria to Hezbollah, and to assist the Lebanese government in fulfilling its obligation to disarm Hezbollah.

 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
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Originally posted by: Astaroth33
In a war, civilians will die because they happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. Bombs miss their target, and people will mistakenly target things that look like war targets but are not. It happens, it has always happened throughout history, and it will continue to happen. Nobody is infallible in this regard. Israel does not deliberately target civilians.

Hezbollah, on the other hand, deliberately targets civilians with rockets designed to spray shrapnel and ball bearings. Hezbollah also places military targets within civilian areas and infrastructure, to (a) avoid getting targeted, and (b) to capitalize on propaganda in case they do.

Hezbollah needs to be destroyed.

You know, I tend to agree that there is a difference between the two sides here...but at the same time I find it deeply disturbing how casual you guys are about all these people dying. "Oh well, wrong place wrong time, sucker! ****** happens!". No offense, but the attitude is very similar to the devaluing of human life that makes the terrorists what they are...how much farther behind can the actions be?
 

daniel49

Diamond Member
Jan 8, 2005
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I don't think it is casualness. Its what was expected when war broke out.
You drop bombs not flowers.
Death is whats going to be the result.
rose.gif


On another note I have decided from hezbolla accounts that 90% of Lebanon is women and chidren. Seems the bombs never fall on men??? Or is it just me?
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
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Originally posted by: daniel49
I don't think it is casualness. Its what was expected when war broke out.
You drop bombs not flowers.
Death is whats going to be the result.
rose.gif


On another note I have decided from hezbolla accounts that 90% of Lebanon is women and chidren. Seems the bombs never fall on men??? Or is it just me?

I'm not sure what your definition of "casualness" is, but to me it's treating these deaths as just another thing that happens during war. It's true, it IS what happens, but that doesn't mean we should act like it isn't still a tragedy.

Hell, I'd feel better if one of you guys made a comment like, "I wish there was a way to prevent all the deaths on both sides, but unfortunately any conflict is going to have casualties." Yet unless I missed it, I've never seen anything like that from you guys...certainly not in this thread. That's what I mean by treating the issue casually.
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
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How do we know they were civilains when the Hezbolla terrorists does'nt wear uniforms?

What good does it do for Israel to target civilains?


I know this board and the international press does'nt care about hezbolla's deliberate targeting of Israeli citizens muslim and jewish alike, which
Killed 12 yesterday, but by all rights Israel could retaliate in kind.

They should but they don't Israelis are way too weak and humanitarian and for that they will lose eventually.
 

Buck Armstrong

Platinum Member
Dec 17, 2004
2,015
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Originally posted by: Gamer X
Reuters

By Lin Noueihed

BEIRUT (Reuters) - Israeli bombardment killed at least 40 civilians in Lebanon on Friday and Hizbollah launched its longest-range rocket attack of the war as world powers tried to overcome their differences on how to end the fighting.

One Israeli air strike hit a farm near Qaa, close to the Syrian border in the Bekaa Valley where workers, mostly Syrian Kurds, were loading plums and peaches onto trucks, local officials said. They said 33 people were killed and 20 wounded.

Television footage showed bodies of what appeared to be farm workers lined up near the ruins of a small structure in fruit groves. Strewn nearby were fruit baskets.

"I was picking peaches when three bombs hit. Others were having lunch and they were torn to pieces," said Mohammad Rashed, one of the wounded. Syria's official news agency said 17 of the dead were Syrian workers, five of them women.

"The air force spotted a truck that was suspected to have been loaded with weapons cross from Syria into Lebanon on a route that is routinely used to transport weapons," said an Israeli army spokesman. "The truck entered into a building and remained inside for an hour, then left and returned to Syria."

He said that when the truck left, the building was attacked.

It was one of the deadliest air strikes in 24 days of war. An air raid in the town of Qana on Sunday killed up to 54 civilians, Lebanese officials say. Human Rights Watch says it has confirmed 28 dead in that attack and 13 people missing.

1. 54 people were not killed in Qana, that turned out to be more Hezbollah lies for the brainwashed puppet hordes. 28 killed, 13 missing.

2. Today Hezbollah rockets killed 4 in Israel, but 3 of them were ARABS. Huge victory there. Oh woops, I forgot - that makes them martyrs, huh? So I guess they're actually lucky to be doing fairytale virgins in Candyland right now? :roll:

3. Hezbollah started this crap, with not a single thought as to what would happen to Lebanon. All they cared about was their master's bidding, ie, drawing attention away from UN proceedings against Iran. If they didn't hole up in the Bekaa Valley after blatantly attacking Israel, then the people there would not be getting bombed. See how simple that is?

4. Can't these people just grow the fvck up and negotiate the two-state peace deal Israel offered years ago? The rest of the world is tired of this medieval bvllsh*t, so let's end this now, and then all the Muslim countries can team up into Shia and Sunni and slaughter each other to their heart's content over important issues like political cartoons. You stay in the 12th century, and let the rest of us live in the 21st. Its enough already.
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
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Originally posted by: Zebo
How do we know they were civilains when the Hezbolla terrorists does'nt wear uniforms?

What good does it do for Israel to target civilains?


I know this board and the international press does'nt care about hezbolla's deliberate targeting of Israeli citizens muslim and jewish alike, which killed 12 yesterday, but by all rights Israel could retaliate in kind. They should but they don't Israelis are way too weak and humanitarian for that and for that they will lose eventually.

It's interesting...because your post makes it sound like you think strength is the same as brutality, and that being the most brutal is really the only way to survive. Man do I not want to live in your world.

I'd also like to point out that the US is probably the first world power in history that got there by doing the exact opposite of what you suggest. We're not perfect, but for the most part our "empire" is founded on the principles of friendship and humanitarian concerns. Personally I think that will always win over the kind of brutality you seem to think is necessary.
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
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Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: Zebo
How do we know they were civilains when the Hezbolla terrorists does'nt wear uniforms?

What good does it do for Israel to target civilains?


I know this board and the international press does'nt care about hezbolla's deliberate targeting of Israeli citizens muslim and jewish alike, which killed 12 yesterday, but by all rights Israel could retaliate in kind. They should but they don't Israelis are way too weak and humanitarian for that and for that they will lose eventually.

It's interesting...because your post makes it sound like you think strength is the same as brutality, and that being the most brutal is really the only way to survive. Man do I not want to live in your world.

I'd also like to point out that the US is probably the first world power in history that got there by doing the exact opposite of what you suggest. We're not perfect, but for the most part our "empire" is founded on the principles of friendship and humanitarian concerns. Personally I think that will always win over the kind of brutality you seem to think is necessary.



Maybe we should have chatted it up with Hilter and came to a compromise.. like he can only kill 3 million Jews and have France but not Spain.

You're dreaming. Values don't win wars, wars decide who's values win. It's always been that and will always be that way.
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
0
0
Originally posted by: Zebo
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: Zebo
How do we know they were civilains when the Hezbolla terrorists does'nt wear uniforms?

What good does it do for Israel to target civilains?


I know this board and the international press does'nt care about hezbolla's deliberate targeting of Israeli citizens muslim and jewish alike, which killed 12 yesterday, but by all rights Israel could retaliate in kind. They should but they don't Israelis are way too weak and humanitarian for that and for that they will lose eventually.

It's interesting...because your post makes it sound like you think strength is the same as brutality, and that being the most brutal is really the only way to survive. Man do I not want to live in your world.

I'd also like to point out that the US is probably the first world power in history that got there by doing the exact opposite of what you suggest. We're not perfect, but for the most part our "empire" is founded on the principles of friendship and humanitarian concerns. Personally I think that will always win over the kind of brutality you seem to think is necessary.



Maybe we should have chatted it up with Hilter and came to a compromise.. like he can only kill 3 million Jews and have France but not Spain.

You're dreaming. Values don't win wars, wars decide who's values win. It's always been that and will always be that way.

I didn't say we shouldn't (or don't need to) fight wars. I said I question your idea that the strategy should always be a race to the bottom, to see who can be the most brutal the longest, because that's the only way to win. I don't think that's the case here, and I don't think it's usually the case. And the problem with throwing your values away every time there is a conflict is that it becomes easier and easier to do so. Hitler was a huge threat to the entire world and the very survival of our country. Rhetoric aside, Islamic fanatics aren't there yet. They might LIKE to destroy Israel, but they don't have the ability to bring about their wishes. If we're willing to throw our values in the bushes over them when we don't have to, what's next?
 

Gamer X

Banned
Feb 11, 2005
769
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0
Originally posted by Zebo

1. 54 people were not killed in Qana, that turned out to be more Hezbollah lies for the brainwashed puppet hordes. 28 killed, 13 missing.

CNN

More than 60 bodies have been pulled from the rubble in Qana, the Lebanese representative to the U.N., Nouhad Mahmoud, said Sunday. Lebanese internal security officials said 37 of the dead are children.

 

cumhail

Senior member
Apr 1, 2003
682
0
0
Originally posted by: Zebo
How do we know they were civilains when the Hezbolla terrorists does'nt wear uniforms?

"Guerrilla War,"
by W.D. Ehrhart

It's practically impossible
to tell civilians
from the Vietcong.

Nobody wears uniforms.
They all talk
the same language,
(and you couldn't understand them
even if they didn't).

They tape grenades
inside their clothes,
and carry satchel charges
in their market baskets.

Even their women fight
and young boys,
and girls.

It's practically impossible
to tell civilians
from the Vietcong;

after a while,
you quit trying.

 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
Moderator
Aug 23, 2003
25,375
142
116
Originally posted by: SamurAchzar
And just in case it got mistakenly overlooked -


Hezbollah uses Christian villages as shields in missile attacks
Catholic News Agency

Posted on 08/04/2006 8:04:22 AM PDT by NYer

Washington DC, (CNA) - Recent reports indicate that Hezbollah is using Christian villages to shield its attacks against Israel.

According to Christian Solidarity International, Hezbollah is hiding among civilian populations, mostly in southern Lebanese towns, such as Ain Ebel, Rmeish, Alma Alshaab.

Launching attacks behind human shields is in violation of the Geneva Convention's provision for the Protection of Victims of International Armed Conflicts, which prohibits the use of civilians as military shields.

This is not a new strategy for Hezbollah. Col. Charbel Barka, a former South Lebanese Army commander, says Hezbollah is repeating what it did in attacks against Israel in 1996.

A Christian from the village of Ain Ebel, who requested to remain nameless for fear of a reprisal from Hezbollah, reported that he found Hezbollah fighters setting up a launcher on his rooftop. Hezbollah fighters ignored his pleas to stop and fired the missiles. He immediately gathered his family and fled his home, which was bombed 15 minutes later by an Israeli air strike.

Hezbollah has also attempted to stop Christians from fleeing their villages. According to Christian Solidarity International, on July 28, Hezbollah fighters fired upon several Christians fleeing Rmeish with their families, wounding two.

Sami El-Khoury, president of the World Maronite Union, adds that media reports about Christian support for Hezbollah are inaccurate.

"Contrary to Western press reports, indicating high percentages of Christian support for Hezbollah, 90 percent of Christians, 80 percent of Sunni and 40 percent of Shiites in Lebanon oppose Hezbollah," El-Khoury told Christian Solidarity International.

Christian Solidarity International has called for the United Nations to establish a politically independent commission to investigate Hezbollah's contravention of international law. The group has also urged the UN Security Council to deploy immediately an international force in Lebanon to facilitate a ceasefire, to stop the flow of arms from Syria to Hezbollah, and to assist the Lebanese government in fulfilling its obligation to disarm Hezbollah.

BWAHAHAHAHA! :laugh:

I was thinking maybe AP or Reuters. But the Catholic News Agency? BWAHAHAHA!
 

SamurAchzar

Platinum Member
Feb 15, 2006
2,422
3
76
Originally posted by: Rainsford
I didn't say we shouldn't (or don't need to) fight wars. I said I question your idea that the strategy should always be a race to the bottom, to see who can be the most brutal the longest, because that's the only way to win. I don't think that's the case here, and I don't think it's usually the case. And the problem with throwing your values away every time there is a conflict is that it becomes easier and easier to do so. Hitler was a huge threat to the entire world and the very survival of our country. Rhetoric aside, Islamic fanatics aren't there yet. They might LIKE to destroy Israel, but they don't have the ability to bring about their wishes. If we're willing to throw our values in the bushes over them when we don't have to, what's next?

I'm not advocating brutallity. As an Israeli, I wish the whole god damn showdown hadn't happend. In the same spirit, I wish that Lebanon had a decent goverment that wouldn't let a TERRORIST ORGANIZATION occupy it's southern border, arming itself constantly.

However, once it has happend, I don't think you can avoid civilian casualities, not when you fight an organziation that uses them as shields.
I do not think that Israel profits from dead Lebanese in any sort of way, and I've yet to hear even one plausible explanation of how that might be so.

Back to brutality, some times it's the only way of solving things. Think of Japan during WWII, for example. Or, think of Iraq at present times. It will not be solved until enough blood is shed. They are killing each other and there's nothing you can do about it.

With Islamic fundamentals, it's going to be the same way. Physical extermination is the only way of solving situations like this. Osama, Nassarallah and their colleagues must die, or more innocents on both sides will.

Islamic fanatics aren't that far off from inflicting huge damage that might change your life. True, it might not physically hurt you, but one nuke setting off in a large US cities WILL change your country for a long, long time. Think of the 9/11 and what it has done to the US - domestic flights, immigration, Iraq war, politics, the various other public concerns it has put aside. Now multiply that by a 1000 and add the material damage, and you'll see why they can cause serious troubles, today.
 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
Moderator
Aug 23, 2003
25,375
142
116
Thanks Israel! I can guarantee you have increased Hezbollah's status in the Middle East by your continued carnage against Lebanese civilians. Thousands in cities across the Middle East marched in support of Hezbollah, and every Lebanese family you destroy during your campaign will each likely spawn a handful of new Hezbollah guerillas.

Meanwhile your ground campaign is doing embarrassingly bad, while your air strikes have not as yet made a dent in Hezbollah's capability to launch strikes on your land (as evidenced by the growing number of rockets being launched daily in response to your bombings). Seems the only thing the Israeli military can hit with precision are vegetable packing plants, stationary objects like bridges, and civilian residences.

Looks like an overwhelming success so far! :roll:
 

Gamer X

Banned
Feb 11, 2005
769
0
0
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Thanks Israel! I can guarantee you have increased Hezbollah's status in the Middle East by your continued carnage against Lebanese civilians. Thousands in cities across the Middle East marched in support of Hezbollah, and every Lebanese family you destroy during your campaign will each likely spawn a handful of new Hezbollah guerillas.

Meanwhile your ground campaign is doing embarrassingly bad, while your air strikes have not as yet made a dent in Hezbollah's capability to launch strikes on your land (as evidenced by the growing number of rockets being launched daily in response to your bombings). Seems the only thing the Israeli military can hit with precision are vegetable packing plants, stationary objects like bridges, and civilian residences.

Looks like an overwhelming success so far! :roll:

They will call them terrorists by then.