Israel will not extend settlement freeze.

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Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
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After eating those mushroom, assume that the UN will actually give the Pals a state based on the '67 borders.

What would the Pals do with Israel pulling the support plug and also the existing settlements.

Call for the UN to come and help?
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No actually that Saudis have pledged billions in aid and if the Palestinians are allowed to develop an economy, something now Israel totally prevents, they can become self sufficient.
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
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Oct 30, 2000
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Is Common Courtesy forgetting the fact that Hamas is not part of the talks.???????????

And I wonder how long Bozo Netanyuhu will lead Israel as he gets booted from the equation also.

If Israel and the Pals can't settle it, what wrong with the larger world settling it for them?
Its the binding third party arbitration I have advocated for years.

But for its worth now, Hamas, Fatah, the Arabs, are all on their best behavior and Israeli behavior is being called into question.

Now matter how far back we want to go into the immediate pre-history of Israel, the only common denominator to be found is stinking Israeli, Palestinian, and Arab behavior.

The idea that Israel is the only angel here is totally false then and now. But its become totally totally false in the last decade as Israel is now out of all bounds of humanity.

Hamas is on their best behaivor?

What did they say and do when Fatah/Abbas anounced that they would start talks?

I would like to purchase some glasses from the same place you get your rose colored glasses.

Israel offered the talks and the Pals ignored/rejected until the last moment. And now the Pals and Arabs feel that they should be able to dictate to Israel.
Anything that Israel will do will be in her interest and allow the Pals to embaress themselves again.
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
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No actually that Saudis have pledged billions in aid and if the Palestinians are allowed to develop an economy, something now Israel totally prevents, they can become self sufficient.

And how soon can those funds be impilmented? It takes time to convert money into goods and get those goods to the needed location. Plus the time it takes to build the support infrastructure.

Israel controls the vitals into Gaza and partially the West Bank.

Piss on Israel and then watch the Pals suffer without power and reduced goods. The Pals have no power plants.
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
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Originally Posted by Lemon law
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No actually that Saudis have pledged billions in aid and if the Palestinians are allowed to develop an economy, something now Israel totally prevents, they can become self sufficient.

Again your dreaming dude!!!
Nowhere does it says the Saudi`s have pledged BILLIONS in aid.....
It says 1.1 Billion which hardly could be considerd billions...


Please post a link to backup all your mis-construed bravado....


http://www.saudiembassy.net/latest_news/news06150901.aspx

Saudi Aid to Palestine
June 15, 2009
The total amount of the donations announced by the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia to support the Palestinian Authority is US $1.1 billion, excluding $1 billion announced at the Arab Summit in Kuwait for reconstruction in Gaza. The breakdown is as follows:

1. Palestinian Authority Budget Assistance

&#8226;The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia has fulfilled all its obligations under the Arab League Summit which call for support of the budget of the Palestinian Authority (PA). Part of this assistance pays the salaries of PA employees, including security officers, and amounts to $7.7 million per month paid by the Saudi Fund for Development (SFD) every two months according to the agreed upon mechanism. Accordingly: $92.4 million has been allotted to support the budget of the Palestinian Authority for a year, starting from April 2008, according to the resolution of the Arab Summit in Damascus. Installments have been transferred from the allotted fund to the account of the Palestinian Finance Ministry through the end of December 2008.
&#8226;The last installment, which equals $23.1 million, for the period from 1 January to 31 March 2009, was transferred by the end of February 2009.
&#8226;In addition to the amounts decided by the Arab Summits, a $20 million fund has been transferred to the unified account of the Palestinian Authority in Euros to support its budget.
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
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Well you might try this link.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/news/2009/03/mil-090302-voa01.htm


Of course if Israel blocks the aid, the aid can't come. But it can come via Egypt and Jordon very rapidly.

If a Palestinian State is declared, will Israel try to prevent the aid coming in?

After all the UN is already on record as saying the Israeli embargo of Gaza is illegal.

Israel does not need to prevent aid.

Israel does not need to provide aid.
If the Pals act hostile toward Israel; Gaza will use candles and diesel generators. They have no power plants.

Also, as a seperate state, hostilities become an act or war. And what Arab nation will come to the Pals rescue against Israel? They have never rescued them previously - it has always been the Pals running to the UN with false promises.
 
Jun 26, 2007
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Hamas is on their best behaivor?

What did they say and do when Fatah/Abbas anounced that they would start talks?

I would like to purchase some glasses from the same place you get your rose colored glasses.

Israel offered the talks and the Pals ignored/rejected until the last moment. And now the Pals and Arabs feel that they should be able to dictate to Israel.
Anything that Israel will do will be in her interest and allow the Pals to embaress themselves again.

Heeey, Hamas threatening to kill every Jewish child IS what they are like on their best behaviour.

He'll take what you say, reinvent it into something else and reply to that.
 
Jun 26, 2007
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No actually that Saudis have pledged billions in aid and if the Palestinians are allowed to develop an economy, something now Israel totally prevents, they can become self sufficient.

No they do not, all aid is let through via banking routes or via the local channels, ALL of it.

What they won't let through is what the SA's are offering, same as Iran has been supplying via the Egypt-Gaza tunnels.

Yet again you just make shit up, probably read some article about something, or most probable just the headline and that is all you need to KNOW all about the situation.

You know, you've been a stand up guy in other situations but sometimes you just disregard reality and refuse to listen to those who have actual knowledge so that you can invent your own reality of a situation, this is one of those times when you do just that.

Listen to what is said, i'm not against a two state solution, neither is JediYoda or Common, in fact we are ALL for it and at least two of us acknowledge that the orthodox insisting on further settlements is bullsheit. If you can understand what is being said rather than interpreting it and reinventing it into something else then a discussion would be a LOT easier.

1. Settlements should be stopped
2. PLO has no negotiating power, they are not the government of Palestinians
3. Hamas is an enemy of both PLO and Israel and also the acknowledged (by both PLO and Israel) government of the Palestinians, nothing can EVER be negotiated until they are on board and lay down their weapons.

4. If this feels like deja vu it's because three people have written that about 150 times in this thread and you have disregarded all of it, built a man of straw that you keep fighting and that is of no use what so ever.

Are we clear on this? Do you understand what i'm telling you?
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
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Well you might try this link.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...0302-voa01.htm = are you a freaking idiot or something?
That link says donors...meaning more than one donor! No where in that link does it say Saudi Arabia is donating BILLIONS like you falsly claimed!!

Of course if Israel blocks the aid, the aid can't come. But it can come via Egypt and Jordon very rapidly. -- you see aid coming thjrough is quite a bit diffeent than arms and things that kill and hurt people!! It is not in jordans or Egypts best interest to allow arms and such to come through!!

If a Palestinian State is declared, will Israel try to prevent the aid coming in?

After all the UN is already on record as saying the Israeli embargo of Gaza is illegal. - you are becoming more ansd more of an idiot!! What is sad is that you are so blinded by your apparent lies and faLsehoods that you honestly believe your own crap!!

These are the cold hard facts -- I have said this and Common Courtesy and JOS have said this -- 1. Settlements should be stopped
2. PLO has no negotiating power, they are not the government of Palestinians
3. Hamas is an enemy of both PLO and Israel and also the acknowledged (by both PLO and Israel) government of the Palestinians, nothing can EVER be negotiated until they are on board and lay down their weapons.

4. If this feels like deja vu it's because three people have written that about 150 times in this thread and you have disregarded all of it, built a man of straw that you keep fighting and that is of no use what so ever.

Are we clear on this? Do you understand what WE telling you?
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
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Both JOS and JediY say, "Are we clear on this? Do you understand what WE telling you? "
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As a matter of fact no. And as a matter of fact you don't seem to understand what you are saying either.

Lets see,you claim to be against Israeli settlement in disputed lands and for a Palestinians state but any time Israel has to change behavior to get to what you advocate, you fight to your last breath to allow Israel to PREVENT what you advocate. Make up your confused minds, you can have one or the other but you can't have both.

In other words you are long on bullshit words but when it comes time to back up your empty words with deeds you are totally missing in action. There are two words in the English language that describes these current JOS and JEDIY statements , and those words are phony and hypocrite.

Don't pretend to advocate one thing and then think you can get away with then contradicting yourself in behavior is my advice to you. The only persons you fool is yourselves.
 
Jun 26, 2007
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Both JOS and JediY say, "Are we clear on this? Do you understand what WE telling you? "
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As a matter of fact no.

Well then, there is nothing more to discuss if you cannot understand the words i write to you.

You make shit up and believe in it all you want, i'm tired of arguing against your phantom thoughts, they have nothing to do with reality and if you just shut the fuck up and understand what others are telling you, then the worst thing that could happen was that you could actually make an argument that makes sense...

But you don't understand what i write per your own statement, so this discussion is over.

Cheerio.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
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Well then, there is nothing more to discuss if you cannot understand the words i write to you.

You make shit up and believe in it all you want, i'm tired of arguing against your phantom thoughts, they have nothing to do with reality and if you just shut the fuck up and understand what others are telling you, then the worst thing that could happen was that you could actually make an argument that makes sense...

But you don't understand what i write per your own statement, so this discussion is over.

Cheerio.
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Finally we somewhat agree JOS, its not going to be decided by my pissing contest or your pissing contest, its going to be decided by the actions of the world's diplomatic community
now united against Israel.

But I just point out your logic has been a more than a wee might short of the actual reality results in Afghanistan and I have every expectation you will be totally wrong here.

I can try to educate you on the facts you are not considering but nothing beats the final outcome results.

Netanyuhu has 100% of his eggs in betting Obama will bail his ass out no matter how stupid and arrogant Netanyuhu acts.
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,589
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Where do you get the idea that Isael is counting on Obama to bail them out?
It is the PAls that are counting on Obama to pressure Israel into giving up something for nothing.

And the world diplomatic community is united against Israel. Where is this coming from. A UNHRC statement?

Stretching your hopes?

You failed in the military prediction statements; now you think you are a political predictor genius.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
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Earth to Common Courtesy, I never made any military predictions, Israel is awash in WMD, but only you seem to think might makes right.

But in terms of, "And the world diplomatic community is united against Israel. Where is this coming from. A UNHRC statement?"

I can only say what part of the US, the UN, the EU, and the Russians do you not understand. As they all say onto Israel, extend the settlement freeze and get your ass
back to the negotiating table. And you also seem to ignore the exactly zero nations that still support Israeli stalling.

Exactly how many world entities still supports Israel ??????????????????????????????
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,589
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Earth to LL:
Israel did not leave the table. The Pals did.

What happened to the world Navies backing up ships to run the Israeli blockade of Gaza.
that seems to be a military prediction.

There have been two other runs attempted into Gaza.

Both times, there was no Naval presense, nor did Israel allow the ships to proceed into Gaza.

And where is the embargo against Israel?

The EU is a political group; not a country. Where have the countries stated that they are against Israel. All that you referenced have issued a statement that Israel should extend the freeze. None have stated OR ELSE.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
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At least Common Courtesy at least gets to the heart of the argument with, " Earth to LL:
Israel did not leave the table. The Pals did."

That is exactly the question, Israel has spent 43 years talking and talking, meanwhile they continue to settle on land they can't ever own.

Why should the Palestinians legitimize that game?????????????????????????

A settlement freeze would level the playing field with neither party gaining an advantage in stalling.

Wake up and smell the coffee Common Courtesy, your Israeli propaganda line lost all validity after Annapolis.

You may still believe that bullshit, but its why all major entities in the entire world are already on record as not believing a damn word Israel says. Or do you really really think the US, the UN, the Eu, the Russians, Egypt, the Arab League are asking Israel to extend the settlement freeze because they believe a single word of your Israeli propaganda line.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
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At least Common Courtesy at least gets to the heart of the argument with, " Earth to LL:
Israel did not leave the table. The Pals did."

That is exactly the question, Israel has spent 43 years talking and talking, meanwhile they continue to settle on land they can't ever own.

Why should the Palestinians legitimize that game?????????????????????????

A settlement freeze would level the playing field with neither party gaining an advantage in stalling.

Wake up and smell the coffee Common Courtesy, your Israeli propaganda line lost all validity after Annapolis.

You may still believe that bullshit, but its why all major entities in the entire world are already on record as not believing a damn word Israel says. Or do you really really think the US, the UN, the Eu, the Russians, Egypt, the Arab League are asking Israel to extend the settlement freeze because they believe a single word of your Israeli propaganda line.

The Pallies didn't leave the table because they never came TO the table, insisting on Israeli concessions as a precondition to coming to the table. But please don't let that dampen your masturbatory fantasy.

This is no different from the League of Nations and Chamberlain et al preaching accommodation with Nazi Germany. Appeasement is always considered cheap if the bill can be paid in dead Jews. Personally I don't get it. Appeasement is not a tactic that has ever produced more than temporary respite throughout history, yet those who style themselves diplomats never seem to tire of it - especially if it's some identifiable minority that will pay the price.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
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The Pallies didn't leave the table because they never came TO the table, insisting on Israeli concessions as a precondition to coming to the table. But please don't let that dampen your masturbatory fantasy.

This is no different from the League of Nations and Chamberlain et al preaching accommodation with Nazi Germany. Appeasement is always considered cheap if the bill can be paid in dead Jews. Personally I don't get it. Appeasement is not a tactic that has ever produced more than temporary respite throughout history, yet those who style themselves diplomats never seem to tire of it - especially if it's some identifiable minority that will pay the price.

Cheap and sleazy obfuscations, complete with appeasement references. Nice.

When and if the day ever comes that Israel actually wants to negotiate, they'll declare a permanent settlement freeze. Failure to do so is a clear indicator of intent to have more settlements. There can be no other reason. They talk only to appease the US and the ROTW, to represent their position as something it's not.

They're not done yet. Israeli settlement on occupied territory will be ongoing until they suffer extremely negative consequences for doing so, and they'll be talking intermittently the whole time.

That's just the way it is.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
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The Pallies didn't leave the table because they never came TO the table, insisting on Israeli concessions as a precondition to coming to the table. But please don't let that dampen your masturbatory fantasy.

This is no different from the League of Nations and Chamberlain et al preaching accommodation with Nazi Germany. Appeasement is always considered cheap if the bill can be paid in dead Jews. Personally I don't get it. Appeasement is not a tactic that has ever produced more than temporary respite throughout history, yet those who style themselves diplomats never seem to tire of it - especially if it's some identifiable minority that will pay the price.
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werepossim if you want to use a Hitler analogy, I will be glad to play that game. Right now, after Annapolis, Israel is in exactly the same Hitler place was after he took over the Rhineland as Hitler promised it would lead to peace in our times. And then he took over another country and again the larger world believed that it was the last territorial claim Hitler would make.

Then Hitler invaded Poland and the world finally woke up and realized Hitler was a lying sack of shit.

And now we are in the same place as the entire world realizes Israel is a lying sack of shit interested in only retaining and controlling what it can never own as it runs roughshod over all bounds of human decency.

Point granted, Hitler stripped Jews and many other ethnic groups of their property and human rights, but only after the shooting war of WW2 started did Hitler start using poison gas to to kill Jews and other ethnic groups.

But Israel has already put Palestinians into concentration camps, stripped them of their property and human rights, so why should we not all realize that Israel has simply become the New Nazi party?

Then we can also ask, given Hitler oppressed the Jews, does that therefore give Israeli Jews the right to do the same thing to Palestinians? Are Israeli Jews therefore now entitled to be the new Nazi party and not a dime different than Hitler himself?

Now are we going to require a shooting war to stop Israel, or can the larger world end Israeli bullshit with diplomacy?

As step by step, Israel follows the Hitler example route with unerring slow motion precision.
 

Freshgeardude

Diamond Member
Jul 31, 2006
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werepossim if you want to use a Hitler analogy, I will be glad to play that game. Right now, after Annapolis, Israel is in exactly the same Hitler place was after he took over the Rhineland as Hitler promised it would lead to peace in our times. And then he took over another country and again the larger world believed that it was the last territorial claim Hitler would make.

Then Hitler invaded Poland and the world finally woke up and realized Hitler was a lying sack of shit.

And now we are in the same place as the entire world realizes Israel is a lying sack of shit interested in only retaining and controlling what it can never own as it runs roughshod over all bounds of human decency.

Point granted, Hitler stripped Jews and many other ethnic groups of their property and human rights, but only after the shooting war of WW2 started did Hitler start using poison gas to to kill Jews and other ethnic groups.

But Israel has already put Palestinians into concentration camps, stripped them of their property and human rights, so why should we not all realize that Israel has simply become the New Nazi party?

Then we can also ask, given Hitler oppressed the Jews, does that therefore give Israeli Jews the right to do the same thing to Palestinians? Are Israeli Jews therefore now entitled to be the new Nazi party and not a dime different than Hitler himself?

Now are we going to require a shooting war to stop Israel, or can the larger world end Israeli bullshit with diplomacy?

As step by step, Israel follows the Hitler example route with unerring slow motion precision.

godwin's law




you need to stop comparing israel to nazi germany.

You sound like an idiot for 1. trying to compare and 2. insisting israel is commiting atrocities equal to that of nazi germany.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
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Earth to FGD, as you say, "you need to stop comparing israel to nazi germany."

FGD, You must think I believe in Godwins law, I do not, and if the shoe fits Israel can wear it.

Besides, FGD, you invoked the Hitler comparison first.

Now are you honestly willing to debate and rebut what I said or are you going to come up with more of your endless store of bullshit?
 
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Freshgeardude

Diamond Member
Jul 31, 2006
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Earth to FGD, as you say, "you need to stop comparing israel to nazi germany."

FGD, You must think I believe in Godwins law, I do not, and if the shoe fits Israel can wear it.

Besides, FGD, you invoked the Hitler comparison first.

Now are you honestly willing to debate and rebut what I said or are you going to come up with more of your endless store of bullshit?


when did I invoke hitler?
 

Harabec

Golden Member
Oct 15, 2005
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I wonder how many people realize Israel is the size of a peanut? Every time some kid goes out of his house and walks 3 meters in any direction its enough to make worldwide news scream "conquest!"
"Taking over lands"...like we have any lands here. We don't. The entire area of mid-Israel all the way up to the golan is so crowded (by both israels and others) that borders, treaties, peace blah blah blah become only words on paper. No one is going to move anywhere, not our millions and not palestinian millions who have already set up their lives there.
I think the most likely outcome is for the west bank to disconnect itself from the Gaza strip and become a self-sustaining autonomy, one way or another.

This is all a big world wide charade. We have our lives, the palestinians have theirs, we even (OMGWTFBBQ!) work together and trade. Headlines don't make US money to buy groceries with.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
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when did I invoke hitler?
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Well its my bad, I have you confused with the equally idiotic werepossom.

But once we realize there is no validity in Godwins law, you become the moral equivalent of werepossim who you forgot to initially dump on for invoking Godwin bullshit first.


As I said in another thread, your intellectual dishonesty continues to amaze me.

If we want to wallow in a immutable past history of Israeli, Palestinian, and Arab bad behavior, we will never find a future fair settlement that can lead us to a better and more fair world.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
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werepossim if you want to use a Hitler analogy, I will be glad to play that game. Right now, after Annapolis, Israel is in exactly the same Hitler place was after he took over the Rhineland as Hitler promised it would lead to peace in our times. And then he took over another country and again the larger world believed that it was the last territorial claim Hitler would make.

Then Hitler invaded Poland and the world finally woke up and realized Hitler was a lying sack of shit.

And now we are in the same place as the entire world realizes Israel is a lying sack of shit interested in only retaining and controlling what it can never own as it runs roughshod over all bounds of human decency.

Point granted, Hitler stripped Jews and many other ethnic groups of their property and human rights, but only after the shooting war of WW2 started did Hitler start using poison gas to to kill Jews and other ethnic groups.

But Israel has already put Palestinians into concentration camps, stripped them of their property and human rights, so why should we not all realize that Israel has simply become the New Nazi party?

Then we can also ask, given Hitler oppressed the Jews, does that therefore give Israeli Jews the right to do the same thing to Palestinians? Are Israeli Jews therefore now entitled to be the new Nazi party and not a dime different than Hitler himself?

Now are we going to require a shooting war to stop Israel, or can the larger world end Israeli bullshit with diplomacy?

As step by step, Israel follows the Hitler example route with unerring slow motion precision.

I must have missed the part where Czechoslovakia, Poland, Belgium, Norway, Holland, France and Russia banded together to attack Germany. Way to defend Hitler though - he only started murdering Jews and other "undesirables" after the shooting war started, so really it's everyone else's fault. I guess it's hard for you to dislike a guy that killed that many Jews.

The 1922/23 League of Nations partition granted to the Jews under British rule Palestine for a homeland, from the Red Sea to the Dead Sea to the Sea of Galilee, with all the rest of the British mandate land becoming autonomous Arab-ruled Transjordan. Numerous times under British rule the Arabs massacred Jews within British-ruled Palestine, so when the British announced the end of their mandate in 1948 the Jews, unwilling to live under Arab rulers even more anti-Jewish than the Europeans, announced the independence of Israel - a fraction of the fraction of the British mandate lands. (Had they not done so, today there would be no Jews living in the Middle East.) The Jews fought and won their independence from Great Britain as well as from thousands of Arabic soldiers, many under leadership of British officers, in 1948, then held it from the regular armies of Jordan, Egypt, Lebanon and Syria. Then in 1956 Egypt moved to take the Sinai Peninsula. Then all the Muslim nations around Israel again joined together in '67 and '73 to attack Israel. Had these nations been able to restrain their hatred, there would be no disputed lands today - other than of course Israel itself. There is nothing in all that history that remotely provides a parallel between Israel and Hitler and/or Nazi Germany.

And for the record I made not a Hitler reference, but a Chamberlain reference. As bad as is a madman like Hitler, those perfectly sane men like Chamberlain who are willing in cold blood to trade the lives of millions for "peace", and who account themselves great men for doing so, are arguably worse. Today's Jew-hating apologists for the Arabs are no better, willing to trade the security and even lives of the Jews, even with the example of the Holocaust within the lives of living people, in their quest for "peace."
 
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