Israel to Recieve F35 Warplanes

[K1052]

Originally posted by: ayabe

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: ayabe
As others have said this is a direct payment from your(our) pockets to Lockheed and Israel gets free planes. Why this is allowed to continue is beyond my ability to comprehend. But make no mistake, someone like Hillary Clinton is just going crank this up because she :heart: Israel and AEI.

I was doing some reading and supposedly the Russians' IR tech is so far advanced it basically renders all current stealth technology useless.

Heh just like their advanced radar system allowed Israeli jets to fly through Syrian airspace and bomb a facility?

I dont put much faith in Soviet and current Russian designs.

The Syrians don't have any of the "good" stuff either.

10 years ago antiquated Russian radar shot down an F-117A and the Russians have always had a leg up on us with IR which we never focused on for some reason.

The Serbs were a little more inventive with their AA missile batteries. They kept them turned off until they thought a stealth was in the area (by using remote spotters) and a older radar that could track the F-117 for a short time. They used some ingenuity and got lucky.

Though that certainly didn't stop NATO forces from bombing the crap out of Serbia.

 

[piasabird]

I think it is a matter of who gets the most practice.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: CaptnKirk

The Su-35 hasn't been produced in numbers and not a single one has been sold outside of Russia. There is only one prototype Su-47 which is not slated for production at this time.

Also, neither is a stealth aircraft. Even an F-35 guided by an AWACS could take them out without the enemy ever figuring out where the hell the F-35 was.

Why do we need the AWACS? - it's just another target.

because you don't want the F-35 to turn on it's radar set. when it turns on its radar set it isn't stealth any more. it's a big bright beacon. so you let the AWACS radar guide the missiles launched from the F-35.

the other way you could do it is by getting the F-35 close enough in so that it's passive sensors can be used. but if you're that close in the risk of detection increases.

i suppose you could also do it by blind-firing missiles toward concentrations of enemy planes. the missile could track and guide itself in from a short distance. however, seems like you'd end up with a much higher miss rate that way.

Originally posted by: ayabe
10 years ago antiquated Russian radar shot down an F-117A

throw enough metal up in the air and you're bound to hit something.

Originally posted by: The Green Bean
:thumbsup:

The first step towards peace is to end the arms race.

and the last step is the implementation of sharia law all around the world. :roll:

 

[teclis1023]

The Israeli AirForce is considered one of the best in the world. There's no point competing against the U.S. Airforce, since they're on the same team. If shit hits the fan, the US and Israel will be flying together, so why spend time creating enmity when there's so many people already who want to destroy both of our countries?

As for the cries of "terrorists!" from the usual suspects here - get a life. Peace agreements and accords have been almost exclusively honored and brokered by Israel, with very few exceptions. And time after time, they're almost exclusively broken by Israel's enemies.

Apparently it's okay to blow up buses and school children as long as you're a Muslim, but when the AIF attacks a Hamas base or shoots a Suicide Bomber, it's an egregious offense.

If the standards that Israel is held to were applied to the Palestinians and Muslim nations, the world would shudder to see their offenses. Perhaps that's why very few people pay attention to the fact that more Muslims are butchered by Muslims per year than any other conflict. It's like Iraq - yeah, America really f*cked up, but it's Muslims who continue to blow each other up....yet America is held accountable for those dead.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: Lemon law


Both things I don't think Israel should be allowed to have.


Why?

Because Israel has shit for brains leadership unwilling to make any peace with their neighbors. Increasing Israeli military strength only serves to wreck any prospects of Mid East peace. And last summers incursions into Lebanon are quite enough proof.

:thumbsup:

The first step towards peace is to end the arms race.

Are you kidding me? Who is >> realistically << thinking THAT will happen? It's about as likely as Jessie Jackson becoming POTUS.

Peace, love, and understanding? :roll:

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: CaptnKirk

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: DarkThinker

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: Aimster
If Israel gets it, guaranteed one Arab nation will get it.

or they will buy some other stuff from Russia or China.

Maybe, but unlikely. Arabs love U.S toys.

They think Russian equipment sucks

Arabs in reality love European toys just as much, look at countries like the UAE and Saudi Arabia, but many Arab governments wouldn't dare to say no to all US offers they have to buy the stuff or else.

A person would be dearly mistaken to assume the Russian toys can't rise to the challenge, the Su-35 and the Su-47 are looking very deadly to me.

The Su-35 hasn't been produced in numbers and not a single one has been sold outside of Russia. There is only one prototype Su-47 which is not slated for production at this time.

Also, neither is a stealth aircraft. Even an F-35 guided by an AWACS could take them out without the enemy ever figuring out where the hell the F-35 was.

Why do we need the AWACS? - it's just another target.

Is this question for real? AWACs is what sets us apart from other nations. The ability to command and control in a moving target is essential. The results have been more than obvious. Our air force utterly decimates anything it runs into.

 

[Deeko]

More job security for me!

<- Lockheed employee

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: Deeko
More job security for me!

<- Lockheed employee

Nice! But I have to ask...based on this comment, are you a multimillionaire wearing a smoking jacket? Because obviously you are NOT average Joe...

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: The Green Bean
These planes probably have little value for you

i'm not sure what you mean. the US airforce alone is buying 1800 of them. they're about $40 million each.

ok my bad. But your rich are probably the main beneficiaries of the deal anyhow.

 

[heyheybooboo]

Originally posted by: Deeko
More job security for me!

<- Lockheed employee

I thought I smelled a 'skunk' :laugh:

Hopefully (I'm guessin' you're not at the 'Works) you will get a chance to work on the next X-plane. I'm glad yah kicked Boeing butt - they had one butt-ugly JSF.

 

[GrGr]

Does this mean the trade deficit with Israel will grow even larger now?

 

[Deeko]

Not a multimillionaire just yet, working on it!

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Deeko
Not a multimillionaire just yet, working on it!

... and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that regardless of what the jerks around here might say to you about it... Most of them believe that your money is their money too!

Good luck!

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: Deeko
Not a multimillionaire just yet, working on it!

I know just poking fun

 

[CaptnKirk]

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: CaptnKirk

The Su-35 hasn't been produced in numbers and not a single one has been sold outside of Russia. There is only one prototype Su-47 which is not slated for production at this time.

Also, neither is a stealth aircraft. Even an F-35 guided by an AWACS could take them out without the enemy ever figuring out where the hell the F-35 was.

Why do we need the AWACS? - it's just another target.

because you don't want the F-35 to turn on it's radar set. when it turns on its radar set it isn't stealth any more. it's a big bright beacon. so you let the AWACS radar guide the missiles launched from the F-35.

the other way you could do it is by getting the F-35 close enough in so that it's passive sensors can be used. but if you're that close in the risk of detection increases.

i suppose you could also do it by blind-firing missiles toward concentrations of enemy planes. the missile could track and guide itself in from a short distance. however, seems like you'd end up with a much higher miss rate that way.

Originally posted by: ayabe
10 years ago antiquated Russian radar shot down an F-117A

throw enough metal up in the air and you're bound to hit something.

Originally posted by: The Green Bean
:thumbsup:

The first step towards peace is to end the arms race.

and the last step is the implementation of sharia law all around the world. :roll:

Actually it doesn't matter - the JSF is more 'AWACS' in many respects than the AWACS is
Faster, better radar, much lower observationability, more manuverable as well.
It dosen't need the AWACS to pin the target, and the on board sensors don't 'bloom' like those of old.
The AWACS itself is a preferred target because of JSF technology.
(It can see you and mark you from nearly 100 miles out, over the horizon, and you never knew it was there until it was too late)

Originally posted by: Genx87

Is this question for real? AWACs is what sets us apart from other nations. The ability to command and control in a moving target is essential. The results have been more than obvious. Our air force utterly decimates anything it runs into.

You kidding me? It's just an airplane, not Ronald Reagan.
We're not the only country in the world to have 'AWACS' capability

Some of them might be pretty good as well.


Hey, did I ever tell you how I spent a few years of my life?

 

[imported_Lothar]

Phalcon > AWACS

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: Lemon law


Both things I don't think Israel should be allowed to have.


Why?

Because Israel has shit for brains leadership unwilling to make any peace with their neighbors. Increasing Israeli military strength only serves to wreck any prospects of Mid East peace. And last summers incursions into Lebanon are quite enough proof.

:thumbsup:

The first step towards peace is to end the arms race.

Are you kidding me? Who is >> realistically << thinking THAT will happen? It's about as likely as Jessie Jackson becoming POTUS.

Peace, love, and understanding? :roll:

I thought America and its illegal wars of "liberation" and "democracy" were supposed to bring that. :roll:

 

[senseamp]

It's funny that Israel is buying our planes, but Iran is buying Israeli (design based Chinese) planes.

Iran has signed a deal with China to purchase 24 J-10 fighter jets between 2008 and 2010, Russian news agency Novosti reported. The jets were developed based on the technology of Israel's Lavi fighter jet, whose technology was sold to China against the wishes of the US.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/S...2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

Of course it could just be Russians spreading rumors to get Americans to pressure China to not sell arms to Iran, leaving Russia more of that business

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: CaptnKirk

Actually it doesn't matter - the JSF is more 'AWACS' in many respects than the AWACS is
Faster, better radar, much lower observationability, more manuverable as well.
It dosen't need the AWACS to pin the target, and the on board sensors don't 'bloom' like those of old.
The AWACS itself is a preferred target because of JSF technology.
(It can see you and mark you from nearly 100 miles out, over the horizon, and you never knew it was there until it was too late)

wow, it's more advanced than i thought


why do people want typhoons? (other than the fact that the typhoon is available now)

 

[kage69]

It dosen't need the AWACS to pin the target, and the on board sensors don't 'bloom' like those of old.
The AWACS itself is a preferred target because of JSF technology.
(It can see you and mark you from nearly 100 miles out, over the horizon, and you never knew it was there until it was too late)

I hope it's more than that, as I'm pretty sure 100 mile target detection range is what the F-15 sports. Also, I'm pretty sure AWACS sees out into to the 250 mile neighborhood, for what it's worth.

 

[1prophet]

Originally posted by: techs
Receive is an interesting word. Since the U.S. gives Israel the money to buy them.
I wonder if this somehow is considered a good thing for our trade deficit?

This is an excellent question, and that is why I believe we should sell the Japanese as many F-22's as they want since they are one of our largest debt holders if not the largest and one of our closest allies.



Japan first new potential F-22 buyer

 

[CaptnKirk]

Originally posted by: 1prophet

Originally posted by: techs
Receive is an interesting word. Since the U.S. gives Israel the money to buy them.
I wonder if this somehow is considered a good thing for our trade deficit?

This is an excellent question, and that is why I believe we should sell the Japanese as many F-22's as they want since they are one of our largest debt holders if not the largest and one of our closest allies.



Japan first new potential F-22 buyer

I believe is it stupid to sell ANY of our first line fighters to anyone - period.

Especially to a country that specializes in reverse enginering, and thrives on copying every one elses best products.

Remember - Toshiba sold propriatory technology that made the equipment for our drives screws on our submarines . . .
they sold the equipment and knowledge to Russia.
That severly compromised our ability to stay hidden from them and from us to see their weapons systems.

 

[Aimster]

Israel is not only sleeping with the U.S, it is also sleeping with China.

 

[Nebor]

I've heard the Israel avionics package they're putting in can differentiate between a Lebanese civilian and a Palestinian civilian, and the targetting system can pick out the children and engage them from 30 miles away, then the communications package can contact the appropriate human rights group!

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: Lemon law


Both things I don't think Israel should be allowed to have.


Why?

Because Israel has shit for brains leadership unwilling to make any peace with their neighbors. Increasing Israeli military strength only serves to wreck any prospects of Mid East peace. And last summers incursions into Lebanon are quite enough proof.

we can say that about your diatribe also eh??

Yoy try to speak from a position of knowledge but you really have no accurate clue on anything related to Israel!!

You really think for a moment the Israel if they so desired could not mount an air attack on Iran....keep thinking......

You thin k they haven`t modified the jets for what they have to be able to do so should the need arise...hhmmm

 

[db]

Originally posted by: techs
Receive is an interesting word. Since the U.S. gives Israel the money to buy them.
I wonder if this somehow is considered a good thing for our trade deficit?

Distribution of forign aid