Originally posted by: GreatBarracuda
Originally posted by: smc13
You do know that East Jerusalem contains the Wailing Wall, the remains of Temple, and it is the the holiest jewish site in the world, right? You also do know that when Jordan controlled the West Bank they refused to allow Jews pray at the Wailing Wall, right? You also do know that Israel has allowed muslims to come pray at the Dome of the Rock, right? there is no way Israel will give up the Wailing Wall, which is why they are putting up the fence.
Exactly. That is why that city should be given true international status. Not the janitorial control promised to Arafat in the fineprint of the Oslo Accords.
The fence is more of a land-grabbing measure than a means of safety for the Israeli citizenry.
I don't know if you read my earlier post contained the link about the illegal wall. Here it is again:
http://www.palestinecampaign.org/pdf/settlements.pdf
I have many sources that elucidate the illegality of this Israeli escapade. I would be more than happy to share them with you if you are interested.
And what would be your stance had any of the Arab wars succeeded?Originally posted by: GreatBarracuda
Originally posted by: smc13
Israel owns the land because they have the ability to hold the land. Everyone recognizes it because it has been demonstrated.
So it all comes down to "might is right" or "keep what you can take". I see now where you are coming from.
Originally posted by: Riprorin
Originally posted by: lozina
How do you argue with someone who doesn't acknowledge when their point is debunked?
I don't know. I'll tell you when you've debunked it.
well?Originally posted by: Czar
I'm sure you know the definitionOriginally posted by: smc13
Originally posted by: Czar
ok, they are refugees, where did they originate from?
Perhaps they came from their parents?
One who flees in search of refuge, as in times of war, political oppression, or religious persecution.
One who flees, as from home, confinement, captivity, or justice: escapee, fugitive, runaway. See seek/avoid.
refugee, one who leaves one's native land either because of expulsion or to escape persecution.
so from where did they run from to be classified as refugees?
Originally posted by: smc13
Again, you use zionist as if it a bad thing.Originally posted by: Siwy
Originally posted by: smc13
I would think that everyone really believes that the west bank is owned by Israel.
Everyone?! Only arrogant Zionist zealots believe that. Why do you think Israeli court (not to mention International court) decided that the wall going through West Bank is illegal.
If even Israeli court thinks that Israel has no right to build a security barrier through the West Bank, what in the world makes you think that ?everyone really believes that the west bank is owned by Israel??
I think it is time for you to start getting news from some other sources than Zionist propaganda websites.
Israel owns the land because they have the ability to hold the land. Everyone recognizes it because it has been demonstrated. You can argue whether or not they should own the land but how can you argue that they do in fact control the territory?
Originally posted by: smc13
Originally posted by: GreatBarracuda
Originally posted by: smc13
You do know that East Jerusalem contains the Wailing Wall, the remains of Temple, and it is the the holiest jewish site in the world, right? You also do know that when Jordan controlled the West Bank they refused to allow Jews pray at the Wailing Wall, right? You also do know that Israel has allowed muslims to come pray at the Dome of the Rock, right? there is no way Israel will give up the Wailing Wall, which is why they are putting up the fence.
Exactly. That is why that city should be given true international status. Not the janitorial control promised to Arafat in the fineprint of the Oslo Accords.
The fence is more of a land-grabbing measure than a means of safety for the Israeli citizenry.
I don't know if you read my earlier post contained the link about the illegal wall. Here it is again:
http://www.palestinecampaign.org/pdf/settlements.pdf
I have many sources that elucidate the illegality of this Israeli escapade. I would be more than happy to share them with you if you are interested.
This "fact sheet" is just propaganda. It is funny that at the same time Palestinians teach their kids to throw rocks pay the families of teens who blow themselves up, they are turning to western style add campaigns to say what Israel is doing is illegal. It's funny. I point out that the arabs have tried to annihilate Israel, that the Palestinians could have had a state if there fellow arabs had allowed it, How the suicide bombers blow themselves up on buses and in restaurants, and all you can the Israelis do is steal land even though the land isn't Palestinian. Yet, you back the murderers and you complain about Israel fencing in part of its own territory.
Here is a question for you, by what basis is the land Palestinian? If you follow the UN rule that says you can't acquire land by conquest, shouldn't Israel be giving the land back to Jordan? I know about resolution 242 but is there any other basis for this argument?
For the record (as if a record on web forum matters), I am against the Israeli settlement of the west bank - except East Jerusalem which is rightfully part of Israel. After Israel completes its fence they should give the settlers a choice, leave the west bank or become proud citizens of the new country of Palestine.
While I am thinking about it, this discussion reminds me of a high school history class I had (in '86 I think). Every year, this teacher (Mrs. Dyer) had a mock middle east peace summit to show us how difficult the peace process was. She never had a class reach an agreement. To ensure there wouldn't be an agreement she had me as part of the Israeli delegation because I was a pro-israeli hawk. I decided that I would throw a monkey wrench into her plans so I convinced the other members of the israeli delegation that we should offer a really generous peace proposal (I don't remember what it was), and proceeded to solve the middle east crisis in 10 minutes. ;-)
Originally posted by: smc13
I read it and there wasn't any information in it that I didn't know. The arabs decided to reject the UN resolution in '47 and tried to annihilate Israel.
What your fact sheet fails to mention is the fact that Ehud Barak tried his best to create a Palestinian state and Arafat refused to accept it. So the reason there is no Palestinian State today? Because Arafat refused to give up one demand - East Jerusalem.
Also, Why do you think Israel is building fences? This isn't difficult. they are building fences to prevent suicide bombers from murdering people. Why would you expect them to not fense up the area? They are building up defenses in preparation for giving the rest of the land to the Palestinians. What is wrong with that?
Originally posted by: cquark...without caring about the UN partition boundaries.
Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
Originally posted by: cquark...without caring about the UN partition boundaries.
The Un never cared about them, why should they be concerned with the UN.
Sionce day 1, then UN werre backing the Arabs
Originally posted by: MegaWorks
Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
Originally posted by: cquark...without caring about the UN partition boundaries.
The Un never cared about them, why should they be concerned with the UN.
Sionce day 1, then UN werre backing the Arabs
Then Isreal should leave the UN if they don't want to follow UN resolutions.
Originally posted by: MegaWorks
Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
Originally posted by: cquark...without caring about the UN partition boundaries.
The Un never cared about them, why should they be concerned with the UN.
Sionce day 1, then UN werre backing the Arabs
Then Isreal should leave the UN if they don't want to follow UN resolutions.
Originally posted by: smc13
Originally posted by: MegaWorks
Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
Originally posted by: cquark...without caring about the UN partition boundaries.
The Un never cared about them, why should they be concerned with the UN.
Sionce day 1, then UN werre backing the Arabs
Then Isreal should leave the UN if they don't want to follow UN resolutions.
UN resolutions are meaningless. The UN does not have the power or inclination to enforce their resolutions so who cares about them?
Originally posted by: Siwy
Originally posted by: smc13
Originally posted by: MegaWorks
Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
Originally posted by: cquark...without caring about the UN partition boundaries.
The Un never cared about them, why should they be concerned with the UN.
Sionce day 1, then UN werre backing the Arabs
Then Isreal should leave the UN if they don't want to follow UN resolutions.
UN resolutions are meaningless. The UN does not have the power or inclination to enforce their resolutions so who cares about them?
Pretty much every modern country in the world cares about UN. With the exception of Israel, if you can call Israel modern with their government's religious bigotry and discrimination.
Originally posted by: smc13
Originally posted by: Siwy
Originally posted by: smc13
Originally posted by: MegaWorks
Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
Originally posted by: cquark...without caring about the UN partition boundaries.
The Un never cared about them, why should they be concerned with the UN.
Sionce day 1, then UN werre backing the Arabs
Then Isreal should leave the UN if they don't want to follow UN resolutions.
UN resolutions are meaningless. The UN does not have the power or inclination to enforce their resolutions so who cares about them?
Pretty much every modern country in the world cares about UN. With the exception of Israel, if you can call Israel modern with their government's religious bigotry and discrimination.
Cares about the UN? In what way? What's a modern country? The US doesn't care about the UN, except of course when we can manipulate it. China doesn't care about the UN except when they can get some concessions for their vote or their veto. In what way is the UN really useful?
Originally posted by: Siwy
Originally posted by: smc13
Originally posted by: Siwy
Originally posted by: smc13
Originally posted by: MegaWorks
Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
Originally posted by: cquark...without caring about the UN partition boundaries.
The Un never cared about them, why should they be concerned with the UN.
Sionce day 1, then UN werre backing the Arabs
Then Isreal should leave the UN if they don't want to follow UN resolutions.
UN resolutions are meaningless. The UN does not have the power or inclination to enforce their resolutions so who cares about them?
Pretty much every modern country in the world cares about UN. With the exception of Israel, if you can call Israel modern with their government's religious bigotry and discrimination.
Cares about the UN? In what way? What's a modern country? The US doesn't care about the UN, except of course when we can manipulate it. China doesn't care about the UN except when they can get some concessions for their vote or their veto. In what way is the UN really useful?
Modern country is a country that among other things doesn?t discriminate based on religion, doesn?t oppress people under its jurisdiction, doesn?t use internationally condemned methods like collective punishment, etc.
In what way is UN really useful? You must be kidding me? How about being responsible for 172 peaceful settlements that have ended regional conflicts? Shall I go on?
Yes, UN needs some changes and adjustments which are already being investigated and implemented but it is far from being useless.
Originally posted by: smc13
172 peaceful settlements? which ones? What about the fighting in the Balkans (in the 90's)? What about the fighting in Sudan? what about the fighting in ethiopia? What about North Korea's nukes? What about Iran's nukes. What about the 16 resolutions on Iraq? What conflict did the UN actually solve?
Originally posted by: Siwy
Originally posted by: smc13
172 peaceful settlements? which ones? What about the fighting in the Balkans (in the 90's)? What about the fighting in Sudan? what about the fighting in ethiopia? What about North Korea's nukes? What about Iran's nukes. What about the 16 resolutions on Iraq? What conflict did the UN actually solve?
You see, that?s the problem with people like you, you?re arguing about something you have no idea about, which is now fairly apparent judging by your doltish questions. Why don?t you stop insulting your own intelligence and do a simple search on UN? How can you possibly argue about usefulness of UN without being aware of its achievements?
Originally posted by: Czar
well?Originally posted by: Czar
I'm sure you know the definitionOriginally posted by: smc13
Originally posted by: Czar
ok, they are refugees, where did they originate from?
Perhaps they came from their parents?
One who flees in search of refuge, as in times of war, political oppression, or religious persecution.
One who flees, as from home, confinement, captivity, or justice: escapee, fugitive, runaway. See seek/avoid.
refugee, one who leaves one's native land either because of expulsion or to escape persecution.
so from where did they run from to be classified as refugees?
Originally posted by: Czar
Originally posted by: Czar
well?Originally posted by: Czar
I'm sure you know the definitionOriginally posted by: smc13
Originally posted by: Czar
ok, they are refugees, where did they originate from?
Perhaps they came from their parents?
One who flees in search of refuge, as in times of war, political oppression, or religious persecution.
One who flees, as from home, confinement, captivity, or justice: escapee, fugitive, runaway. See seek/avoid.
refugee, one who leaves one's native land either because of expulsion or to escape persecution.
so from where did they run from to be classified as refugees?
Originally posted by: smc13
Originally posted by: Czar
Originally posted by: Czar
well?Originally posted by: Czar
I'm sure you know the definitionOriginally posted by: smc13
Originally posted by: Czar
ok, they are refugees, where did they originate from?
Perhaps they came from their parents?
One who flees in search of refuge, as in times of war, political oppression, or religious persecution.
One who flees, as from home, confinement, captivity, or justice: escapee, fugitive, runaway. See seek/avoid.
refugee, one who leaves one's native land either because of expulsion or to escape persecution.
so from where did they run from to be classified as refugees?
Your question was answered yesterday. I posted a link to the UN page that deals with the palestinian refugees (the UN calls them refugees) and someone else said it depended upon which ones. Why don't you go back a few pages and look?
Originally posted by: smc13
Originally posted by: smc13
Originally posted by: Czar
Originally posted by: Czar
well?Originally posted by: Czar
I'm sure you know the definitionOriginally posted by: smc13
Originally posted by: Czar
ok, they are refugees, where did they originate from?
Perhaps they came from their parents?
One who flees in search of refuge, as in times of war, political oppression, or religious persecution.
One who flees, as from home, confinement, captivity, or justice: escapee, fugitive, runaway. See seek/avoid.
refugee, one who leaves one's native land either because of expulsion or to escape persecution.
so from where did they run from to be classified as refugees?
Your question was answered yesterday. I posted a link to the UN page that deals with the palestinian refugees (the UN calls them refugees) and someone else said it depended upon which ones. Why don't you go back a few pages and look?
Here is another link for you that tells you what the UN considers a palestinian refugee:
http://www.un.org/unrwa/refugees/whois.html
Originally posted by: smc13
Originally posted by: Siwy
Originally posted by: smc13
172 peaceful settlements? which ones? What about the fighting in the Balkans (in the 90's)? What about the fighting in Sudan? what about the fighting in ethiopia? What about North Korea's nukes? What about Iran's nukes. What about the 16 resolutions on Iraq? What conflict did the UN actually solve?
You see, that?s the problem with people like you, you?re arguing about something you have no idea about, which is now fairly apparent judging by your doltish questions. Why don?t you stop insulting your own intelligence and do a simple search on UN? How can you possibly argue about usefulness of UN without being aware of its achievements?
The translation of your post is "I have no idea what peaceful settlements the UN has resolved and I pulled the 172 number out of my butt."
I understand.
