Originally posted by: lozina
You already provided the numbers in the pdf you linked to
I provided a link to a document stating that Israel and Egypt are the largest recipeints of US foreign aid, yet I didn't hear anyone in this thread complaining about aid to Egypt.
The context of this thread is nothing but Israel bashing, and the perspective is MIA.
Here's some perspective: $50 billion later, taking stock of US aid to Egypt.
By the way, I can't wait for someone to start using the numbers from the table in the article as a proof for something....
Originally posted by: dna
Originally posted by: lozina
You already provided the numbers in the pdf you linked to
I provided a link to a document stating that Israel and Egypt are the largest recipeints of US foreign aid, yet I didn't hear anyone in this thread complaining about aid to Egypt.
The context of this thread is nothing but Israel bashing, and the perspective is MIA.
Here's some perspective: $50 billion later, taking stock of US aid to Egypt.
By the way, I can't wait for someone to start using the numbers from the table in the article as a proof for something....
And why should anyone in this thread complain about aid to Egypt? I mean the original topic is about the aid to Israel right? US provided aid to 150 countries, some are effective, some are not. Each should be judged by it's own merit.
So tell me again why is aid to Egypt, whether effecitive or not, has anything to do with aid to Israel? That's what we are talking about right? So if the aid to Egypt suck big time, it is okay for the aid to Israel to suck?
Or I guess you got nothing to say about the aid to Israel and its merit so you gotta pull something else into the discussion?
lozina
Lifer
- Sep 10, 2001
- 11,711
- 8
- 81
Originally posted by: dna
Originally posted by: lozina
You already provided the numbers in the pdf you linked to
I provided a link to a document stating that Israel and Egypt are the largest recipeints of US foreign aid, yet I didn't hear anyone in this thread complaining about aid to Egypt.
The context of this thread is nothing but Israel bashing, and the perspective is MIA.
Here's some perspective: $50 billion later, taking stock of US aid to Egypt.
By the way, I can't wait for someone to start using the numbers from the table in the article as a proof for something....
Hmm, maybe - JUST maybe could it be because Egypt is totally irrelevent in this thread? It 's not Egypt invading a neighbor and then asking for more foreign aid here....
I don't think you are realizing that the money to Israel the OP is referring to is in ADDITION to the disporportionally large amount of funds they already receive from the foreign aid program detailed in the PDF you provided.
But since you mentioned Egypt, here are some numbers for you to put it into proper perspective:
Israel Egypt
Population 7m 75m
Foreign AID $2.62b $1.87b
per capita $375 $25
GDP $163b $305b
per capita $23,416 $4,317
Average Israelis enjoy 5.75 times the income of average Egyptians and receive 15 times the foreign aid.
And Israel might ask us to almost double the foreign aid to them for this year? Ridiculous.
Do away with foreign aid COMPLETELY.
Say what you will about mentioning Egypt, the OP phrased the question in a not-so-objective way, not to mention that the Title of the post talks of $6.8 billion while the body of the message talks about $2 billion; the former figure seems rather irrelevant to the question posted.
Furthermore, aid to Israel does product results, example: the Pentium M came from Israel, and all future Intel CPUs are based on the Pentium M; I'm sure there are other examples. That's why your per-capita number doesn't mean much, and is a prime example of "lies, damn lies, and statistics" -- you are using arithmatic to get numbers to support your argument, since you have nothing else.
Also, you are forgetting that in Egypt there are people calling for the destruction of the USA, while you won't find the equivalent in Israel. Just based on this fact it would be very easy for me to argue for cutting aid to Egypt completely; however, I know this is a complex matter that requires a lot more thinking, and I'm not as smart as you guys to argue for such decisive action based on ........... well, I'm sure you thought it through and have a very good reason.
Furthermore, aid to Israel does product results, example: the Pentium M came from Israel, and all future Intel CPUs are based on the Pentium M; I'm sure there are other examples. That's why your per-capita number doesn't mean much, and is a prime example of "lies, damn lies, and statistics" -- you are using arithmatic to get numbers to support your argument, since you have nothing else.
Also, you are forgetting that in Egypt there are people calling for the destruction of the USA, while you won't find the equivalent in Israel. Just based on this fact it would be very easy for me to argue for cutting aid to Egypt completely; however, I know this is a complex matter that requires a lot more thinking, and I'm not as smart as you guys to argue for such decisive action based on ........... well, I'm sure you thought it through and have a very good reason.
Originally posted by: rchiu
Originally posted by: dna
Originally posted by: lozina
You already provided the numbers in the pdf you linked to
I provided a link to a document stating that Israel and Egypt are the largest recipeints of US foreign aid, yet I didn't hear anyone in this thread complaining about aid to Egypt.
The context of this thread is nothing but Israel bashing, and the perspective is MIA.
Here's some perspective: $50 billion later, taking stock of US aid to Egypt.
By the way, I can't wait for someone to start using the numbers from the table in the article as a proof for something....
And why should anyone in this thread complain about aid to Egypt? I mean the original topic is about the aid to Israel right? US provided aid to 150 countries, some are effective, some are not. Each should be judged by it's own merit.
So tell me again why is aid to Egypt, whether effecitive or not, has anything to do with aid to Israel? That's what we are talking about right? So if the aid to Egypt suck big time, it is okay for the aid to Israel to suck?
Or I guess you got nothing to say about the aid to Israel and its merit so you gotta pull something else into the discussion?
It's just funny how you only complain about aid to Israel, and not aid to Egypt. Makes me think that you just have it out for Israel, instead of actually caring about the 'plight of the American tax payer'.
To be fair Israel's economy far surpasses Egypt's economy.
Egypt is a pile of crap. & I mean a pile of crap. Look at images of Cairo taken from the air.
Egypt is a pile of crap. & I mean a pile of crap. Look at images of Cairo taken from the air.
Originally posted by: Aisengard
Originally posted by: rchiu
Originally posted by: dna
Originally posted by: lozina
You already provided the numbers in the pdf you linked to
I provided a link to a document stating that Israel and Egypt are the largest recipeints of US foreign aid, yet I didn't hear anyone in this thread complaining about aid to Egypt.
The context of this thread is nothing but Israel bashing, and the perspective is MIA.
Here's some perspective: $50 billion later, taking stock of US aid to Egypt.
By the way, I can't wait for someone to start using the numbers from the table in the article as a proof for something....
And why should anyone in this thread complain about aid to Egypt? I mean the original topic is about the aid to Israel right? US provided aid to 150 countries, some are effective, some are not. Each should be judged by it's own merit.
So tell me again why is aid to Egypt, whether effecitive or not, has anything to do with aid to Israel? That's what we are talking about right? So if the aid to Egypt suck big time, it is okay for the aid to Israel to suck?
Or I guess you got nothing to say about the aid to Israel and its merit so you gotta pull something else into the discussion?
It's just funny how you only complain about aid to Israel, and not aid to Egypt. Makes me think that you just have it out for Israel, instead of actually caring about the 'plight of the American tax payer'.
That would be a nice theory but the only reason we are giving aid to egypt is israel.
SamurAchzar
Platinum Member
- Feb 15, 2006
- 2,422
- 3
- 76
As an Israeli - No, no, and no again. Israel can't and shouldn't rely on foreign aid to solve its problems. US gives enough as it is.
OTOH, the US might want to pick up the tab on this one as a strong Israel is in their strong interest, and this war served the global war on extereme Islam just as it served Israel.
But Israel shouldn't ASK for such aid.
OTOH, the US might want to pick up the tab on this one as a strong Israel is in their strong interest, and this war served the global war on extereme Islam just as it served Israel.
But Israel shouldn't ASK for such aid.
WHAT THE HELL DOES THE INTEL PENTIUM HAVE TO DO WITH GOVERNMENT AID TO ISRAEL? Intel is a private corporation INVESTING in Israel. Damn, it seems like you're really reaching for straws. Die-hard Israeli fan, are you not?
lozina
Lifer
- Sep 10, 2001
- 11,711
- 8
- 81
ok, i'll give you that - the OP didn't word his thread too well but it's not like he tried to mislead us since the body of the message says it correctly.
Nice try. First you sensationalize the irregularity of the numbers in the wording of this thread now your are trying to marginalize irregularities exposed by the foreign aid numbers when put into proper per capita perspective. Too funny!
And let's make the speculation that the Pentium M chip would not have been developed without Israel- how does that benefit us in America? Zero/Zilch/Nada. It benefits the Intel corporation, not the people. (and as someone pointed out above, this development was not the result of foreign aid funding, it is Intel's funding- Intel made an investment and thankfully it paid off for them)
There are people in America itself calling for the destruction of America, so now what? When we have an Egyptian president calling for the destruction of America you might then have a point. Wow you really have a pattern of throwing these strawmen arguments. You have thus far made no valid points to support your case, whatever your case might be. Just what is your case? You're going all over the place- introducing Egypt and Intel into this thread for no apparent reason other than perhaps trying to derail the thread? What's next, are we going to hear you talk about endangered white rhinos?
Woah, you've said a mouthful. So much so that Bush or Sharon could've easly said the same thing. The global war on extreme Islam? Ha ha ha ha. Nice way to simplify complex problems.
And how is a strong Israel in America's interest. Before 1967, America was primarily pro-Arab. Since the occupation of Palestine began, European socialists, leftists and communists (Israel's original supporters) dropped their support and joined the Palestinian cause. America only came around after the Europeans left. Today, Israel is more a liability than an asset for American foreign policy.
Schadenfroh
Elite Member
- Mar 8, 2003
- 38,416
- 4
- 0
Just give them the resources in free bombs, guns, munitions, etc.
The tools to get the job done........
The tools to get the job done........
SamurAchzar
Platinum Member
- Feb 15, 2006
- 2,422
- 3
- 76
HUH? Israel was never supported by any of the declared Communist states. USSR, in fact, clearly sided with the Arabs, both in political and practical support. Arabs always had Russian military equipment, and had active military assistance even during the war of '67.
The American way of life is too a liability for the American foreign policy. Many more people hate the US for what it stands for commercially than because of its support of Israel.
The American foreign policy, for now, prefers countries like Israel than countries like Iran. Now, I don't know you, and have no idea how smart you are, but you should probably figure out who is a better ally for yourself...
And there's nothing complex in the war on extreme Islam. Only leftists who - typically - fail to grasp reality as it is see it as anything complex. It's a war, just like other wars, war that has to be won by someone and it just rather be your side than the other guy's.
I really fail to understand how a situation when an armed militia is threatning a soverign country is complicated to understand, or how does it have any hidden aspects. Complicated to deal with, maybe, but it's easy to understand.
I do not understand how beating what is necessarily an extension of the west greatest adversay - that would be the Iranians - can have negative influence over America.
And I really don't understand what happend to common sense.
I would rather have Iran as an ally then israel. If Iran was our ally Iraq wouldn't be as screwed up.
What has Israel ever done for us?
SamurAchzar
Platinum Member
- Feb 15, 2006
- 2,422
- 3
- 76
I was giving you one example of the good that came from the aid, whether directly, or indirectly; unless you'd like to argue that Intel financed the education of all those engineers.
Show me something good that came out of Egypt after $50 billion.....
Ignoring the standard of living in both countries hardly legitimizes your argument which solely focuses on A > B.
Heh... I gave you one example, and I'm not quite sure what do you mean by benefiting the people. How is the aid to Egypt benefit people in the USA? In different ways which are apparently to subtle for you to understand.
I responded to his comment; you two assume that Intel had only to hire some people off the street and then magic would happen. Also, it is paying up by the fact that Intel has something to counter AMDs offerings, and is in fact forcing a price war. If it didn't have a competitive product, then AMD would've maintained their high prices (many people noticed that prior to the Intel Core, AMD was no longer the cheaper, better underdog)
Good to know you have no problem with that.
So, you'd rather throw some money to keep the fire a little bit under control? What about the moment that you reduce the amount of aid and all hell breaks loose because they no longer owe you?
You have a very bizzare taste in allies.
And you have made it absolutely clear that you aren't concerned about tax payers' money, but rather the fact that Israel is getting some of it.
Theb
Diamond Member
- Feb 28, 2006
- 3,533
- 9
- 76
Haha and what percentage of the US annual military budget is spent in the "supplementary spending bills" which fund combat operations in Iraq and Afghanistan? At 80-100 bil a pop, two or three a year, I think Israel's costs are in line with our own wars.
War is incredibly expensive, the wear and tear of operational tempo creates maintanance problems a half a decade of peace can't match. Add to that the fact that with outsourcing of service and support in all Western militaries, combat operations now require huge outlays to pay for work by Haliburton types who run the mess halls, transport services, etc. These costs are not present during peacetime, a factor which was mitigated in the days of military-provided support services.
I thought this article will be interesting to all of you who are so worried about tax-payers' money being "wasted".
Take a look at that, and consider what will happen if the Muslim Brotherhood will take over Egypt: you'll end up with one less ally, more than $50 billion down the drain, and all you got out of it is Ayman al-Zawahiri and another country with a full blown anti-USA propaganda machine.
Like I said earlier -- this poll/thread lacks perspective; foreign aid is not such a simple matter, unless you wish to take the isolationist approach.
P.S.
The article ends with a religious note, but you can ignore that; the whole magazine is kinda religious, but that's not what I'd focus on -- it is their analysis that is quite good, while I just skip the references to the bible.
Take a look at that, and consider what will happen if the Muslim Brotherhood will take over Egypt: you'll end up with one less ally, more than $50 billion down the drain, and all you got out of it is Ayman al-Zawahiri and another country with a full blown anti-USA propaganda machine.
Like I said earlier -- this poll/thread lacks perspective; foreign aid is not such a simple matter, unless you wish to take the isolationist approach.
P.S.
The article ends with a religious note, but you can ignore that; the whole magazine is kinda religious, but that's not what I'd focus on -- it is their analysis that is quite good, while I just skip the references to the bible.
Perhaps once day dna you should look at the reasons why groups such as "Muslim Brotherhood" get support, instead of support a dictatorship that actively opresses many (ESPECIALLY in Eygpt).
You sit here and talk about "Friendly regimes"...what is a friendly regime? If a person will do great business with me, but to do that he steals and opresses people on the area he rules....do I still call that a "friendly regime". Generally the middle east, the more a leader denies the basic rights to its population...the more "friendly" it is to us. With double standards like that, no wonder they have come to the point where "Death to America" is a catch phrase.
Btw, just for the record I think the Muslim Brotherhood are largely a bunch of turds.
You sit here and talk about "Friendly regimes"...what is a friendly regime? If a person will do great business with me, but to do that he steals and opresses people on the area he rules....do I still call that a "friendly regime". Generally the middle east, the more a leader denies the basic rights to its population...the more "friendly" it is to us. With double standards like that, no wonder they have come to the point where "Death to America" is a catch phrase.
Btw, just for the record I think the Muslim Brotherhood are largely a bunch of turds.
TRENDING THREADS
-
Discussion Zen 5 Speculation (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 9000)- Started by DisEnchantment
- Replies: 20K
-
Discussion Intel current and future Lakes & Rapids thread- Started by TheF34RChannel
- Replies: 23K
-
Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads
- Started by Tigerick
- Replies: 12K
-
Discussion Speculation: Zen 4 (EPYC 4 "Genoa", Ryzen 7000, etc.)- Started by Vattila
- Replies: 13K
-
Facebook
Twitter