Israel Retaliates for Palestinian Reprisals Over Israeli Retribution

[Moonbeam]

Actually I didn't say, etech, but I see my post caused your knee to flex. You're not going to get very deep into your own self-examination that way.

 

[etech]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Actually I didn't say, etech, but I see my post caused your knee to flex. You're not going to get very deep into your own self-examination that way.

Why not, are you afraid to say what mystical force has brought you to your 'enlightened' state?

My knees did not "flex" moonie, I leave that position to you.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: tcsenter
Israel Retaliates for Palestinian Reprisals Over Israeli Retribution Stemming from Palestinian Retaliation in Reponse to Israeli Assault on Terrorist Hide-Outs as Reprisal for Palestinian Suicide Bomber Attacks Avenging the Deaths of Palestinians Killed in Israeli Response to Palestinian Attack on Jewish Settlements.....

I think you're just starting to scratch the surface there......

 

[tcsenter]

The neet thing from a brainwashing point of view is the illusion that because you grow up free, (In your imagination) you think that people who grew up in a Madras are brainwashed. Almost everyone is the fanatical production of their cultural milieu. Apparently it's rather unusual to question your own belief systen and destroy it down to the root. I don't see how anyone who hasn't undergone extensive deprograming can claim independence of thought.

It could be argued, not very well, but it could be argued that Western society in general, but particularly American society, is every bit the 'cult' that Islamic fundamentalism is.

In Islamic society, you ain't sh-t unless you're Muslim.

In Western society, you ain't sh-t unless you're 'westernized'.

But particularly in America, you ain't sh-t unless you're American.

So, seeing that this, after you strip away all the distractions and asides, at the very core is nothing more than a clash of cults, I'll let you chose which 'cult' you'd rather be 'brainwashed' by (yes, I'm making you chose sides):

Western, but particularly American, society with all its economic, social and religious freedoms, where we really don't care all that much if you're Muslim or Buddhist or Christian, just as long as you embrace the basic tenets and spirit of western society?

Or failed repressive Islam with its penchant for repressive theocracies based on Muslim law?

Or, alternatively, the thesis of this exercise could be: "Why so many people are literally dying to come to America, escaping repressive theocracies or quasi-theocracies like those found in Muslim countries, but the other direction of 'migration' is so miniscule as to be nearly non-existant by comparison."

Isn't it great we can have these academic discussions criticizing our own government and society? I think so, particularly when there are still countries where doing so will result in your mysterious 'disappearance'; like Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Qatar, and Yemen.

Only in America could you find people who are so confused that they do politically symbolic things like go to Europe and try to flee over the Berlin Wall INTO East Germany, not from it. 😕

 

[b0mbrman]

Originally posted by: MartyTheManiak
Czar (I think) posted a funny cartoon one day. it showed and endless row tombstones arranged like dominos. The tombstones alternated between "Israeli" and "Palestinian"....

That's actually kinda clever...clever and sad...

 

[jjones]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
The neet thing from a brainwashing point of view is the illusion that because you grow up free, (In your imagination) you think that people who grew up in a Madras are brainwashed. Almost everyone is the fanatical production of their cultural milieu. Apparently it's rather unusual to question your own belief systen and destroy it down to the root. I don't see how anyone who hasn't undergone extensive deprograming can claim independence of thought.

I don't see how anyone can claim independence of thought in any regard. True independence of thought I suppose is possible in theory, but like God, I've yet to see it in practice.

 

[Moonbeam]

While it is tempting to want to embrace the range of factors that impinge on the full expression of human consciousness, the subject here is the endless retaliation exhibited by the Israeli Palistinian conflict. Here we see an endless series of graves stretching so far into the remote past that nobody really knows who is in the first. The chief characteristic is that I have a right to kill because somebody I love was killed. I have a right to kill because if I kill it will square the circle. I have a right to kill ten for one to teach the other not to kill. This is the wheel of Karma. This is human insanity. This is the refusal to suffer, to feel loss, to accept and surrender to the truth that nothing can ever be different than it was and nothing can ever change it. This is the refusal to accept that humans are asleep, mechanical, and unable to respond consciously to situations. This is a refusal to let things come to an end, our lives, their lives, our dreams, our ideals, everything. This is a refusal to see. This is the refusal to die to the ego.

So what is this ego and can it die? We grow up in a world of violence, a sick world made sick by putting children down, by assalting their natural, spontanious, real selves and molding them into things, egos, that do not remind us that we are dead, unspontaneous, unfeeling, and rigid, frozen in the past. We inculturate them into the norm at the expence of tremendous pain and suffering. Every child is broken so that he conforms. The means is physical violence and emotional assalt through put downs. The real self is crushed and the child, in order to survice becomes the conformist or the conformist rebel, an ego or false self. This false self is the cultured being. The citizen, the model, the mature examplar of the culture.

So the reason we hate the other is because we were taught to hate the other that was our real self. We imprison our real self by means of our hate. By means of our hate, we remove from consiousness all active memory of the suffering we experienced in becomming false, in dying to what we really are. That is the suffering we will not feel. That is the suffering we will kill not to feel.

The enemy comes along and tells us we are worthless. Oh no you don't. We already went through that. Never again. You will die. We have substituted conformity for self, the conformity to race, religion, politics, country, team, club, family, clan, a thousand things. We get our sense of self worth not from within, but by association, vicariously, according to that great noble thing to which we belong, and which that horrible filthy other thing is trying to destroy.

We do know, however that there were some strange dudes that came along in history. Jesus with his message of love, crucifixion, and rebirth or the Buddha with his transcendence of suffering, for a small sampling. Personally, I think these men felt their suffering all the way to its core and reemerged in the form of their original being.

In order to truly save the world from endless cycles of retaliation, individuals can only return to the source of joy, the Eden from which they were expelled. That can happen only through forgiveness. We hate ourselves because we died. We had to. There was no other way.

There is nobody to blame. Our suffering is all our own. To cause others to suffer will never remove it.

"Did ye but suffer ye would not suffer." A saying attributed to Christ.

 

[Moonbeam]

What happened, justint, did I loose you again? 😀