Israel - Palestine

Aimster

Lifer
Jan 5, 2003
16,129
2
0
Correct me if I am wrong but isn't the situation like this:

Israel kicking ass
Hamas dying
Israel kicking ass
Hamas dying

Israeli soldiers lost in combat: less than 10
Hamas soldiers lost in combat: all of them who had the balls to fight

So why the hell is there a cease fire? Israel should just finish the job. Sheesh.

-----------------------------
I am confused on that you would not use the threads that were setup for this
Until the situation dies down, there is not a need for the complete page to be full of incidents

Please come back in a week when things have stabilized.

Senior Anandtech Moderator
Common Courtesy
 

theflyingpig

Banned
Mar 9, 2008
5,616
18
0
Agreed, they should just finish it. In a few months people will forget about the slaughter anyway.
 

Farang

Lifer
Jul 7, 2003
10,913
3
0
Amount dead is not a measure of anything, and I would very much dispute your Hamas figure. I was going to explain my thoughts to you further but you're too far gone.
 

NoShangriLa

Golden Member
Sep 3, 2006
1,652
0
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Several millions Vietnamese dead with several millions more wounded, to piddly US 60,000 death & 150,000 wounded Gis, and who won the war?

The out come of modern warfare isn't only on the battle field, but it is also fought by politician behind close door.

Only weak minded leader resort to physical violent to solve disputes.
 

theflyingpig

Banned
Mar 9, 2008
5,616
18
0
Originally posted by: NoShangriLa

Several millions Vietnamese dead with several millions more wounded, to piddly US 60,000 death & 150,000 wounded Gis, and who won the war?

The out come of modern warfare isn't only on the battle field, but it is also fought by politician behind close door.

Only weak minded leader resort to physical violent to solve disputes.

Vietnam was an example of weak leadership by the US.
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
Now you know you can not change a tigers stripes.. With Olmert/Livni/Barak their ineptness and cowardice would shine though eventually and you knew they would dishonor Israel, the IDF and dead soldiers. Bibi is another sissy but he would have at least gone another week and occupied corridor. (you'll see in about 3 months after Hamas reloads)

I also think fear of incurring the displeasure of the incoming Obama administration played a part. Didnt want his innogoration upstaged by Arab lobby haranguing him so I bet he said via back channels lay off.
 

kylebisme

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2000
9,396
0
0
Exactly. Israel really only has 3 solutions here, which I'll list along with the reasons Israel has avoided them for the past 42 years:

1) Accept Palestine's right to exist so Palestinians can finally have their own state.

* Israel wants that land.

2) Offer Palestinians Israeli citizenship.

* Israel would no longer have their beloved ethnically-Jewish majority.

3) The Final Solution.

* Bad PR.

So, instead; Israeli just keeps Palestinians stateless, and defenceless from having their homeland colonized out from under them, kills off whoever fights back or gets in the way, and puts so much effort into their PR here in the US that people cheer this insanity on.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
Originally posted by: Aimster
Correct me if I am wrong but isn't the situation like this:

Israel kicking ass
Hamas dying
Israel kicking ass
Hamas dying

Israeli soldiers lost in combat: less than 10
Hamas soldiers lost in combat: all of them who had the balls to fight

So why the hell is there a cease fire? Israel should just finish the job. Sheesh.

Because we the world seem to have this sick fascination with forcing warring parties to settle their differences before one is allowed to finish the job, thus prolonging the misery.
With this conflict in particular it has turned into a damned team sport.

My prediction is more bloodshed to come over the coming years as rockets start to reign down on Israeli cities again and Israel responds and the entire process starts over.

 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
Originally posted by: TheSnowman
Exactly. Israel really only has 3 solutions here, which I'll list along with the reasons Israel has avoided them for the past 42 years:

1) Accept Palestine's right to exist so Palestinians can finally have their own state.

* Israel wants that land.

2) Offer Palestinians Israeli citizenship.

* Israel would no longer have their beloved ethnically-Jewish majority.

3) The Final Solution.

* Bad PR.

So, instead; Israeli just keeps Palestinians stateless, and defenceless from having their homeland colonized out from under them, kills off whoever fights back or gets in the way, and puts so much effort into their PR here in the US that people cheer this insanity on.

1. Israel see their right to exist. Why would they leave Gaza in 2005 if they didnt?!?!?!?! Furthermore what is stopping Israel from taking the land?
2. 20% of Israel population is Arab.
3. The final solution seems to be a sick fascination spewed about mostly by the far left. Seems they want to drum up some kind of irony.

 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
Moderator
Aug 23, 2003
25,375
142
116
Originally posted by: theflyingpig
Vietnam was an example of weak leadership by the US.
One of many.
 

sarotara

Member
Mar 15, 2005
68
0
0
Originally posted by: Aimster
Correct me if I am wrong but isn't the situation like this:

Israel kicking ass
Hamas dying
Israel kicking ass
Hamas dying

Israeli soldiers lost in combat: less than 10
Hamas soldiers lost in combat: all of them who had the balls to fight

So why the hell is there a cease fire? Israel should just finish the job. Sheesh.

Finish the job? Considering that Israel is fighting the population what you're suggesting sounds like genocide... and let's not forget that "kicking ass" involved using white phosphorus shells, bombing/shelling UN schools, warehouses, etc. and killing civilians and children... This isn't a video game.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
Originally posted by: sarotara
Originally posted by: Aimster
Correct me if I am wrong but isn't the situation like this:

Israel kicking ass
Hamas dying
Israel kicking ass
Hamas dying

Israeli soldiers lost in combat: less than 10
Hamas soldiers lost in combat: all of them who had the balls to fight

So why the hell is there a cease fire? Israel should just finish the job. Sheesh.

Finish the job? Considering that Israel is fighting the population what you're suggesting sounds like genocide... and let's not forget that "kicking ass" involved using white phosphorus shells, bombing/shelling UN schools, warehouses, etc. and killing civilians and children... This isn't a video game.

Welcome to war. You think everything goes as perfect as Call of Duty 4 or osmething?
 

MovingTarget

Diamond Member
Jun 22, 2003
9,002
115
106
A cease-fire between Israel and the Palestineans? Yeah, that'll last. :roll:

I can see why Israel went in to retalliate against Hamas, however, if they truly want peace they cannot continue the policies that leave the majority of Gazans in sheer poverty. Unless the standard of living in Gaza is allowed to rise, the resentment against the boogeyman next door will continue to reach fanatical levels. Some of these things include lack of trade (despite having access to the Medeteranean) and inadequate food/water/fuel supplies and inconsistent electrical service (as Arafat and his Fatah buddies built only diesel plants to skim off the top of wrt fuel). Israel often uses these staples as a matter of leverage against Gazans when Hamas (or another group) does something stupid like they did this time. Cutting or limiting these in no way hurts Hamas, who has the political power and underground (sometimes literally) resources to get what they need to perpetuate the violence. It is the ordinary citizen that suffers instead.
 

kylebisme

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2000
9,396
0
0
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: TheSnowman
Exactly. Israel really only has 3 solutions here, which I'll list along with the reasons Israel has avoided them for the past 42 years:

1) Accept Palestine's right to exist so Palestinians can finally have their own state.

* Israel wants that land.

2) Offer Palestinians Israeli citizenship.

* Israel would no longer have their beloved ethnically-Jewish majority.

3) The Final Solution.

* Bad PR.

So, instead; Israeli just keeps Palestinians stateless, and defenceless from having their homeland colonized out from under them, kills off whoever fights back or gets in the way, and puts so much effort into their PR here in the US that people cheer this insanity on.

1. Israel see their right to exist. Why would they leave Gaza in 2005 if they didnt?!?!?!?! Furthermore what is stopping Israel from taking the land?
2. 20% of Israel population is Arab.
3. The final solution seems to be a sick fascination spewed about mostly by the far left. Seems they want to drum up some kind of irony.
1. Israel withdrew to hold Gaza from it's borders while focusing on colonizing across the rest of Palestine over in the West Bank.

2. Over 50% of Israel's population would be Arab if Israel gave all Palestinians citizenship.

3. I was simply listing out the options.

And I am no leftist, though sometimes I get mistaken as one, and as a rightist as well, but only by partisan hacks who have very little grasp on reality.
 

mxyzptlk

Golden Member
Apr 18, 2008
1,888
0
0
Originally posted by: Genx87

1. Israel see their right to exist. Why would they leave Gaza in 2005 if they didnt?!?!?!?!
Wow, your caricature of Israel is soooooo generous! They graciously allow the Palestinians so much of their original homeland!! [/sarcasm]

* Israel would no longer have their beloved ethnically-Jewish majority.
2. 20% of Israel population is Arab.
In otherwords, there is an ethnically Jewish majority?? Are you one of those people who simply has to say something contrary? Fascinating...

3. The final solution seems to be a sick fascination spewed about mostly by the far left. Seems they want to drum up some kind of irony.
It's one of the few logical conclusions that you can draw from from the Zionists movement's actions. The Zionists want a jewish country. There are non-jews there. They've got to do something with them in order to reach their goal, either relocate them or exterminate them. That they haven't done so because it's, as you say, "sick" is pretty much what The Snowman said.

So I have to ask again.. Do you just HAVE to say something contrary, even when you agree with the person you're allegedly disagreeing with?

Originally posted by: Genx87
My prediction is more bloodshed to come over the coming years as rockets start to reign down on Israeli cities again and Israel responds and the entire process starts over.

You're certainly correct here. The way this conflict has been fought and continues to be fought will ensure that there is never a shortage of Palestinian radicals who feel they have nothing left to lose.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
3
0
While I happen to agree with the earlier GenX87 prediction that this will solve nothing in what amounts to a 60 year conflict, I can't agree with his statement of, "Welcome to war. You think everything goes as perfect as Call of Duty 4 or osmething?"

Simply because, while war inevitably causes collateral damage, it can vary widely in degree depending on the way its conducted, and while Israel could have been even more brutal, Israel took very few steps to minimize civilian causalities. Shelling hospitals, clinics, and UN headquarters is a no no, the always used excuse that someone was firing at us nearby cuts little mustard, when Hamas has no real weapons able to harm a hair on the head of any Israeli soldiers. And if anything Hamas support will increase and not decrease in Gaza just as Hezbollah support tripled in Lebanon. But unlike Hezbollah, Hamas seems to lack any
weapons that will even slow up an Israeli tank, a lack that will inspire many to correct.

But in a population of 1.5 Gaza residents, we can figure, that if Hamas won the election, Hamas base support starts at 750,000. To support any sort of an insurgency, one is usually talking at least one or two percent of the population to be active insurgents, so do the math, we would be talking at least 15,000 to 30,000 willing and able to bear arms. Given only some 1,000 Gaza residents killed, with 60% of those innocent civilians, even if 400 active fighters were killed, it hardly dents Hamas strength. Nor does much evidence exists that the rather ineffectual rockets Hamas has already smuggled in are badly depleted or destroyed. If anything Egyptian popular support lies with Gaza, Mubarak has not come off looking good, and Israel can't can't keep playing the game of starving the residents of Gaza without creating a human rights backlash even in the USA. Israel is skating on very thin ice as it is, its my understanding that the Hamas cease fire only lasts a week, and then it may be time to test the Obama Presidency.

Personally, I think its time for binding third party arbitration, because if we wait for real Irsaeli concessions that lead to a mutually negotiated fair settlement, it will never happen, but the Palestinians and Arabs, in the past 10 years, are just learning how to effectively fight back. Rockets used by Stateless terrorists are not effective yet in hurting Israeli, its better than the rocks and bottles they had, but as the rocket range gets longer and chemical and biological weapons start to be used, its going to get real ugly in the next 10 years. The Arab anger Israel has created is long past the breaking point.
 

mxyzptlk

Golden Member
Apr 18, 2008
1,888
0
0
Originally posted by: Genx87

Welcome to war. You think everything goes as perfect as Call of Duty 4 or osmething?


I'm so sick of this "war is hell" meme...

You'd think the correct response to that is, "lets stop fucking having them" not "Oh well, lets blow up another school full of refugees. Not our fault, it's just the way it is. v:)v"