Israel orders Palestinian land seized

[JackStorm]

Linky

Can't say I'm surprised. But to see such a blatant landgrab during the withdrawal process just shows that neither side can be trusted.

They're so close, yet so far from ever gaining peace if this continues.

 

[Czar]

I'm not surprised, not one bit

 

[0roo0roo]

They're so close, yet so far from ever gaining peace if this continues.

you are confusing their disingagement plan with surrender. they are doing what they said they would, disengage. and if they need land for the wall after pulling out of gaza, so be it. leaving gaza without a peace agreement is far worse then them taking a scrap of land for their wall. hamas thinks they've been rewarded for terror. and the palestinians agree and give their support. but such it is. the choices are all bad. so they have chosen disengagement, it wasn't a plan where every move is a no strings attached concession to make palestinians happy.

 

[Czar]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

They're so close, yet so far from ever gaining peace if this continues.

you are confusing their disingagement plan with surrender. they are doing what they said they would, disengage. and if they need land for the wall after pulling out of gaza, so be it. leaving gaza without a peace agreement is far worse then them taking a scrap of land for their wall. hamas thinks they've been rewarded for terror. and the palestinians agree and give their support. but such it is. the choices are all bad. so they have chosen disengagement, it wasn't a plan where every move is a no strings attached concession to make palestinians happy.

no ofcorse not, from the start it was a plan to leave some things hard to hold and strengthen the hold on other areas, therefore making mutual peace further away than it was before.

 

[DBL]

Originally posted by: Czar
no ofcorse not, from the start it was a plan to leave some things hard to hold and strengthen the hold on other areas, therefore making mutual peace further away than it was before.

Sorry. The ball is now in the Palestinians court. Let them make the next move. Don?t hold your breath.

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

Originally posted by: DBL

Originally posted by: Czar
no ofcorse not, from the start it was a plan to leave some things hard to hold and strengthen the hold on other areas, therefore making mutual peace further away than it was before.

Sorry. The ball is now in the Palestinians court. Let them make the next move. Don?t hold your breath.

Where's the logic in that? If you steal 25% of my property, give 50% of it back and then take a different 10% . . . you're still a friggin' thief! Depending on the state of residence, my next move is either legal action or a hollow point.

Israel (under Likud) has been amongst the most immoral governments on the planet. You cannot defend depravity against others by saying, "well their guys are worse!"

 

[0roo0roo]

doesn't work that way. the palestinians lost in multiple wars of aggression and intended genocide, they don't dictate the terms of peace let alone the final borders. they've basically refused to surrender, so the victor is just staking the claim and moving for complete separation after decades of fruitless peace negotiations. you can't move "farther from mutual peace" at this point, its been infinitely far away for a long time now. the path of terror was chosen by the palestinians. if this is their punishment, then fine. they certainly shouldn't be rewarded for it.

 

[lozina]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
doesn't work that way. the palestinians lost in multiple wars of aggression and intended genocide, they don't dictate the terms of peace let alone the final borders.

Yeah, because we all know it was the glorious Palestinian air force which launched an early morning surprise attack to destroy all Israeli aircraft while they sat on their runways- oh wait a minute!

 

[JackStorm]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
you are confusing their disingagement plan with surrender.

No I'm not. That's just your assumption. I look at this(them leaving Gaza) as Israels way of tightening their grip on the West Bank, while giving the Palestinians the possibility of creating their own nation. But it's kind of hard to do that (Create a nation) when they're cutting one part of said nation from the rest by taking more land.

Also, I'm sure we all know they were wasting to much resources protecting those 8000 settlers in Gaza. Them giving up Gaza and conserving resources, while at the same time tightening their control over the west bank was just a smart move on Israels part.

So it sure as hell wasn't surrender on Israels part.

That being said, I expect BOTH sides, not just the Israelis or the Palestinians to honor their end of the deal. And Israel taking more land is not something I would call honoring their agreement. The same applies to the Palestinians, if they don't stop the terrorist groups that are attacking Israel after the disengagement, then they will have failed to keep up their end of the bargin.

 

[0roo0roo]

the path to that war was inevitable. the states in question had slammed the door on any other possibility with their actions. it was only a matter of who would strike first, and israel would only win if they did. if they had not there would have been slaughter and you'd be happy with all the dead jews so really stfu.

 

[0roo0roo]

That being said, I expect BOTH sides, not just the Israelis or the Palestinians to honor their end of the deal. And Israel taking more land is not something I would call honoring their agreement. The same applies to the Palestinians, if they don't stop the terrorist groups that are attacking Israel after the disengagement, then they will have failed to keep up their end of the bargin.

no, the disengagement plan isn't a peace deal. it isn't a bargain. its the result of endless fruitless negotiations and israel deciding to just go it alone on seperating the two peoples whether or not the palestinians want to cooperate.

 

[polm]

Just out of curiosity...How many nations in this world have given back land that was taken through war?

 

[0roo0roo]

no point argueing, these threads are like abortion or creationist threads. pointless. and some twit always posts them basically as a troll.

 

[lozina]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
the path to that war was inevitable. the states in question had slammed the door on any other possibility with their actions. it was only a matter of who would strike first, and israel would only win if they did. if they had not there would have been slaughter and you'd be happy with all the dead jews so really stfu.

Nice sensationalism and quick grab at the race card :roll:

IIRC, you're the guy who doesn't even recognize the Palestinians as a people/culture, right?

 

[JackStorm]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
no, the disengagement plan isn't a peace deal. it isn't a bargain. its the result of endless fruitless negotiations and israel deciding to just go it alone on seperating the two peoples whether or not the palestinians want to cooperate.

I never said it was a bargin, because it isn't. So stop trying to put words in my mouth. I also never said it was a peace deal. If anything, everything I've said so far should point out that I believe it's nothing more than a strategic withdrawal to re-focus their resources. Them grabing that piece of land just proves it.

Oh, and I hope you don't mistake me for one of the rapid anti-Jewish loopies that sometimes post here. I have nothing against jews. So if claiming that is your next step, then don't bother.

 

[magomago]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
no point argueing, these threads are like abortion or creationist threads. pointless. and some twit always posts them basically as a troll.

normally i don't do posts like this, and usually try to stick to some substance but i have a class in 10 minutes and found it amazingly hippocritical...with that said go up a few posts....

if they had not there would have been slaughter and you'd be happy with all the dead jews so really stfu.

 

[MiniDoom]

Originally posted by: lozina

Nice sensationalism and quick grab at the race card :roll:

IIRC, you're the guy who doesn't even recognize the Palestinians as a people/culture, right?

Funny coming from someone who lives on stolen Indian land.:roll:

 

[0roo0roo]

funny that twit puts words in my mouth. i simply don't support rewarding terror. and frankly thats the path the palestinians have chosen. spitting in the face at every chance they had for peace is their sorry history.

as for mago, i didn't start the thread. and frankly i was just pointing out him ignoring the inevitable conclusion if things had gone more to his liking.

 

[JackStorm]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
funny that twit puts words in my mouth. i simply don't support rewarding terror. and frankly thats the path the palestinians have chosen. spitting in the face at every chance they had for peace is their sorry history.

as for mago, i didn't start the thread. and frankly i was just pointing out him ignoring the inevitable conclusion if things had gone more to his liking.

You're calling people twits and telling them to stfu. Is it at all possible for you to post without insulting people, twisting their words against them or telling them to stfu?

How about you not attack the posters in the thread and just state what you have to say without the insults?

If you disagree with someone in this thread, then fine, just do it without attacking people...

 

[0roo0roo]

i'm just giving the thread the level of respect it deserves. and you know its all it should get.

perhaps i should have quoted as you probably dont' know who i was responding to. yes lozina was a twit for saying i didn't think the palestinians exist as a people or culture. i didn't say that. it was deserved.

 

[JackStorm]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
i'm just giving the thread the level of respect it deserves. and you know its all it should get.

So you're not even willing to give the thread a chance? Then why did you bother to post in it? Just to derail it?

Personally, I like discussing/debating with people I disagree with(Circle-jerk threads where everyone agrees with me are boring). I can even agree to disagree the subject and leave the discussion on civil terms. So I just feel that people should at least try to refrain from insulting each other.

perhaps i should have quoted as you probably dont' know who i was responding to.

Nah, no need. I knew who you were refering to. I just felt it was unnecessary for you to call him that.

yes lozina was a twit for saying i didn't think the palestinians exist as a people or culture. i didn't say that. it was deserved.

If what he said was untrue, then just say so. Insulting the person just makes things worce.

That being said, lozina, try not to put words in 0roo0roo's mouth or make claims that are untrue, or at least back them up if they are true.

 

[lozina]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
i'm just giving the thread the level of respect it deserves. and you know its all it should get.

perhaps i should have quoted as you probably dont' know who i was responding to. yes lozina was a twit for saying i didn't think the palestinians exist as a people or culture. i didn't say that. it was deserved.

Notice the question mark?

A Question Mark at the end of a sentence usually signifies that the sentence is in fact, a question.

I don't have the time to do a more thorough search, so far only came up with Riproin saying something like that. I could vaguely remember you saying something like Palestinians aren't really a culture, which is why I asked the question instead of stating it.

Furthermore, I find your glaring hypocrisy laughable. Before I even asked that question you said:

...and you'd be happy with all the dead jews so really stfu.

Which was not a question. That really is putting words in my mouth, making such an absurd sensationalist assumption. And notice how despite that uncalled-for comment, I did not retort with a childish insult like calling you a "twit".

 

[DBL]

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
Where's the logic in that? If you steal 25% of my property, give 50% of it back and then take a different 10% . . . you're still a friggin' thief! Depending on the state of residence, my next move is either legal action or a hollow point.

Israel (under Likud) has been amongst the most immoral governments on the planet. You cannot defend depravity against others by saying, "well their guys are worse!"

Your understanding of history is considerably warped.

Besides, I'd rather be a nation considered a thief for protecting my population from unprovoked aggression then a nation who teaches hate while also giving considerable support to terror organizations responsible for the killing of innocent women and children.

 

[0roo0roo]

the end result of the alternate history where the arabs strike first is one where masses of jews die. that isn't really in question. and thats what you support. it follows your position and silly statement..question mark or not.

search all you want linoza, i never said anything of the sort. so really you and your faulty memory deserve the stfu and being called a twit.

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

Originally posted by: DBL

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
Where's the logic in that? If you steal 25% of my property, give 50% of it back and then take a different 10% . . . you're still a friggin' thief! Depending on the state of residence, my next move is either legal action or a hollow point.

Israel (under Likud) has been amongst the most immoral governments on the planet. You cannot defend depravity against others by saying, "well their guys are worse!"

Your understanding of history is considerably warped.

Besides, I'd rather be a nation considered a thief for protecting my population from unprovoked aggression then a nation who teaches hate while also giving considerable support to terror organizations responsible for the killing of innocent women and children.

Uh, Palestinians largely played a bystander role as European powers carved out a ridiculous looking Israel. Other Arab countries certainly did not help, but it makes no more sense to blame Palestinians for Israeli aggression as to blame Iraqi Shi'ites for US aggression.

In Gaza alone, you had several thousand (less than 9k, IIRC) TAKING what little good land there was while relegating over 1 million Palestinians to the patches that Israelis didn't want. Few would call subsequent attacks against occupiers, "unprovoked aggression."

As for teaching hate . . . there's plenty of that going around from DC, Tel Aviv, Cairo, Tehran . . . you name it . . . there's a nation advocating a dehumanization and/or killing of an "enemy."

IMHO, the greatest obstacle to peace before 2003 was Arafat. But even before his death, he had been surmounted by Sharon. I certainly understand the frustration of Israelis, but they no longer occupy a morally defensible position with regards to Palestinians. Alas, they've now sunken to the depths that they no longer care.