Israel may go into Gaza AGAIN! Plus Iran giving Hezbollah money.

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: chcarnage
What will it take for Israel to permanently stop the illegal expansions into palestinian territory (illegal even by Israeli laws)? Nobody opposes the activities of the settler movement, this really puts Israel's status as a constitutional state at risk in the long run. But retroactive legalisation is all the Israeli government does at the moment.

thats a bunch if rubbish...alot of meaningless words.
Explain yourself if you can..plz

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: Czar
they have been hitting gaza every day since they cought the israeli soldiers either with airstrikes or full incursions, so why is this news to you?

Proof?

More words....Israel has not been active active at all!!
Except in a self defence mode.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: Narmer

Originally posted by: jrenz

Originally posted by: Narmer

Originally posted by: jrenz

Originally posted by: Narmer

Originally posted by: smack Down

given the Israel withdrew from the Gaza in exchange for peace there; it would seem that the truce has been broken whenever a rocket has been launched from the Gaza territory.

I don't think the palestinians agreed to any truce based on israil withdrawal.

exactly. Israel did all this on their own and they're surprised that the Palestinians are still fighting them. How moronic.

I'm glad we agree... they should have just killed all the Palestinians.

You can never kill all. Ask Hitler. Besides, in a sense, everyone lives forever. By that I mean that your actions can influence others, who will influence others, and so on. In the end, look at what Hitler has done for the Jews and for Germany.

Well I guess we agree that Hitler was an alright guy then, too.

Speak for yourself. If you think the sacrifice of 6million Jews was worth the state of Israel and the pussification of Germany, then that's your opinion. Not mine.

You have a very convoluted opinion. With no facts to back up what you ar stating!!
Germany pussyfid in what way?
They were deafeated hands down....or was the outcome of ww2 different than as stated?

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: Narmer
Terrorism is here forever. I hope it never goes away becauses it gives a grieving people an avenue to vent their anger. Besides, it's the only way those in power will recognize the weak's strength. And since it can never be defeated militarily, the powerful have to come to the table with a fair political solution. God bless it.

Did you really just say God bless terrorism?

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: chcarnage
No need for an ad psittacum attack, SamurAchzar: As you may know, the West Bank is part of Palestine too and that's where the illegal settlement takes place now.

Today I read in my newspaper that a study assigned from Sharon found more than hundred illegal outposts. According to the article (which is neither English nor online), neither Labor nor Kadima are willing to enforce the law: "Peretz, Foreign Minister Livni and other ministers, too, said that the illegal outposts in the West Bank must be cleared unconditionally, during the last year. Otherwise Israel's international image as a constitutional state would be severly damaged. Since the assumption of his office six months ago, Peretz declared again and again that clearings are coming in the immediate future. But except the case of the outpost Amona at Ramallah, who was cleared under his predecessors' rule against massive protests and violent confrontations with the police, nothing happened".

"Apparently the minister of defense wants to avoid further confrontations with settlers at all cost, even if effective laws and instructions of legal instances are violated. Peretz said he will negotiate with the settlement leaders during the next two weeks. Otherwise he will remove the outposts with force, he said. Another discussed possibility is to place military bases at the illegal outposts, to avoid giving the territory (back) to the Palestinians. Peretz, whose Labor Party always supported removing of illegal settlements in the West Bank, will hear massive critics also from his own ranks, should he allow such a horse-trade to take place"

Its always nice to quote sources that nobody else has access too.
Also thats pretty lame to say your source cannot be found on the internet...
Get your scanner and scan the sucker and make it available...

 

[flavio]

Originally posted by: SamurAchzar

To quote Einstein (I think), "A madman is someone who repeats the same experiment again and again, expecting the result to be different".

Interesting you try to quote Eistein. Here's some Eistein quotes on the Israel -Palestine situation....

Among the most disturbing political phenomena of our times is the emergence in the newly created state of Israel of the ""Freedom Party"" (Tnuat Haherut), a political party closely akin in its organization, methods, political philosophy and social appeal to the Nazi and Fascist parties. It was formed out of the membership and following of the former Irgun Zvai Leumi, a terrorist, right-wing, chauvinist organization in Palestine.

The current visit of Menachem Begin, leader of this party, to the United States is obviously calculated to give the impression of American support for his party in the coming Israeli elections, and to cement political ties with conservative Zionist elements in the United States. Several Americans of national repute have lent their names to welcome his visit. It is inconceivable that those who oppose fascism throughout the world, if correctly informed as to Mr. Begin?s political record and perspectives, could add their names and support to the movement he represents.

Before irreparable damage is done by way of financial contributions, public manifestations in Begin??s behalf, and the creation in Palestine of the impression that a large segment of America supports Fascist elements in Israel, the American public must be informed as to the record and objectives of Mr. Begin and his movement.

The public avowals of Begin??s party are no guide whatever to its actual character. Today they speak of freedom, democracy and anti-imperialism, whereas until recently they openly preached the doctrine of the Fascist state. It is in its actions that the terrorist party betrays its real character; from its past actions we can judge what it may be expected to do in the future.

More Einstein here

 

[chcarnage]

Originally posted by: dna
Yes, because they really put what they had to good use.

This is regrettable but Palestinians are severly hindered of using the greenhouses. According to Time/Care International Israeli artillery destroyed over 40 greenhouses since the pullout.

And yes, I believe giving up the territory beyond the Green Line of 1948 or serious negotiations would help Israel.

Hahahahahahahaa :laugh: :laugh:

Yeah, first they rejected the UN resolution, and began a war in 1948; then they massed armies, and that led to the war in 1967.

Now you want to go back to the Green Line?
Why stop there? Let's go back to the Partition Plan lines, as it would help Israel even more.

In a long term perspective, the Palestinian state has to be economically viable. The Israeli West Bank wall has several finger-shaped expensions around settlements on the Palestinian side of the Green Line, cutting off Palestinian peasants from their fields.

I know about the wars that took place in and around Israel; however the average age in the Gaza strip is surprisingly low. Argumenting with the wars of 1948 and 1967 is not far from argumenting with hereditary debt, in my opinion.

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda

Originally posted by: chcarnage
What will it take for Israel to permanently stop the illegal expansions into palestinian territory (illegal even by Israeli laws)? Nobody opposes the activities of the settler movement, this really puts Israel's status as a constitutional state at risk in the long run. But retroactive legalisation is all the Israeli government does at the moment.

thats a bunch if rubbish...alot of meaningless words.
Explain yourself if you can..plz

During the last months, the settler movement constructed many new illegal outposts and the Israeli government avoids any confrontation because this would probably lead again to police action. (See link below)

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda

Originally posted by: Czar
they have been hitting gaza every day since they cought the israeli soldiers either with airstrikes or full incursions, so why is this news to you?

Proof?

More words....Israel has not been active active at all!!
Except in a self defence mode.

Umm... of course Israel's military is regularly operating in Gaza Self defense is a flexible word, is killing Hamas leaders self defense? And what about the killing of bystanders and innocents? What about the economical consequences p.e. for the greenhouses I quoted above, fishing, agriculture, and Israel making exports nearly impossible? What about the destruction of Gaza's only power plant, was that self defense or a retaliatory measure against the civil population?

Israel usually operates in the North of the Gaza strip, however few days ago Israeli military forces occupied the Gaza-Egypt border and closed the border crossing in Rafah which was the first border crossing without Israeli surveilance. Israel said that the controls of the Egypts and the EU surveillance was ineffective. Bottom line, Israel still has a firm grip on Gaza and economically speaking nothing happens there if Israel does not approve it.

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda

Originally posted by: chcarnage
No need for an ad psittacum attack, SamurAchzar: As you may know, the West Bank is part of Palestine too and that's where the illegal settlement takes place now.

Today I read in my newspaper that a study assigned from Sharon found more than hundred illegal outposts. According to the article (which is neither English nor online), neither Labor nor Kadima are willing to enforce the law: "Peretz, Foreign Minister Livni and other ministers, too, said that the illegal outposts in the West Bank must be cleared unconditionally, during the last year. Otherwise Israel's international image as a constitutional state would be severly damaged. Since the assumption of his office six months ago, Peretz declared again and again that clearings are coming in the immediate future. But except the case of the outpost Amona at Ramallah, who was cleared under his predecessors' rule against massive protests and violent confrontations with the police, nothing happened".

"Apparently the minister of defense wants to avoid further confrontations with settlers at all cost, even if effective laws and instructions of legal instances are violated. Peretz said he will negotiate with the settlement leaders during the next two weeks. Otherwise he will remove the outposts with force, he said. Another discussed possibility is to place military bases at the illegal outposts, to avoid giving the territory (back) to the Palestinians. Peretz, whose Labor Party always supported removing of illegal settlements in the West Bank, will hear massive critics also from his own ranks, should he allow such a horse-trade to take place"

Its always nice to quote sources that nobody else has access too.
Also thats pretty lame to say your source cannot be found on the internet...
Get your scanner and scan the sucker and make it available...

Here's the article, it's from this newspaper.

 

[imported_dna]

Originally posted by: chcarnage
I know about the wars that took place in and around Israel; however the average age in the Gaza strip is surprisingly low. Argumenting with the wars of 1948 and 1967 is not far from argumenting with hereditary debt, in my opinion.

Then by your logic, arguing for the Green Line is also not far hereditary debt.

What about the economical consequences p.e. for the greenhouses I quoted above, fishing, agriculture, and Israel making exports nearly impossible?

Don't forget the mortar manufacturing plants -- seems like that's part of the cutting-edge industry there, and it should be allowed to operate in a free market.... :roll:

 

[chcarnage]

Originally posted by: dna
Then by your logic, arguing for the Green Line is also not far hereditary debt.

Some parts of the Green Line were the factual border until recently, when the wall was built in the West Bank. Also new illegal settler outposts on Palestinian soil in the West Bank are under construction now, these are new injustices happening now.

However some adjustments or the exchange of territory is possible if both parties agree to negotiations.

Originally posted by: chcarnageWhat about the economical consequences p.e. for the greenhouses I quoted above, fishing, agriculture, and Israel making exports nearly impossible?

Don't forget the mortar manufacturing plants -- seems like that's part of the cutting-edge industry there, and it should be allowed to operate in a free market.... :roll:

I don't understand you. Are you saying that the majority of Palestinians build rockets? Or that Israel shutting down the exports affects the production of Palestinian rockets? Your move...

 

[SamurAchzar]

Originally posted by: Narmer

Originally posted by: SamurAchzar

Originally posted by: Narmer
Terrorism is here forever. I hope it never goes away becauses it gives a grieving people an avenue to vent their anger. Besides, it's the only way those in power will recognize the weak's strength. And since it can never be defeated militarily, the powerful have to come to the table with a fair political solution. God bless it.

Good to see your true colors.

Israel militarily defeats terror every single day. Why aren't there any more exploding buses? Good will of the Palestinians? Har har har.
The rate of success against terror activity is much greater than 90%.

At the end, those terrorists mostly hurt their own people. Look at the state of the Palestinians after 10 years of non-stopping terror attempts (and successes).

Yeah, you defeat them everyday, for how many years now? You call that defeat? Oh, by the way, you contradicted your first paragraph with the second. Anyway, I hope you continue your triumphs, if you can call it that.

Military defeat, definitely. Despite their enormous will to commit terror in Israel, they are almost unable to. It only brought them more and more misery. A sane nation would admit defeat and aim for a solution.

The only reason the Palestinians still pose a problem is the way the international community likes to intervene with the acts of Israel in this subject.
It prevents decisive acts and lengthens the suffering of both parties.

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: Narmer
Terrorism is here forever. I hope it never goes away becauses it gives a grieving people an avenue to vent their anger. Besides, it's the only way those in power will recognize the weak's strength. And since it can never be defeated militarily, the powerful have to come to the table with a fair political solution. God bless it.

I would defeat it by bombarding each and every village from whence terrorism comes. If they wish to invite bloodshed among their population, then they need to feel the full force of bloodshed. I?d let the very few who survive remind future generations not to start wars they cannot win.

Yet terrorism will continue until we realize we cannot pretend to be ignorant of its damages to us. The desire to win is all we require, the capabilities of blowing away entire civilizations are already within our control.

 

[Czar]

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda

Originally posted by: Czar
they have been hitting gaza every day since they cought the israeli soldiers either with airstrikes or full incursions, so why is this news to you?

Proof?

More words....Israel has not been active active at all!!
Except in a self defence mode.

proof? havent you seen the news for a few months?

 

[imported_dna]

Originally posted by: chcarnage
Some parts of the Green Line were the factual border until recently, when the wall was built in the West Bank. Also new illegal settler outposts on Palestinian soil in the West Bank are under construction now, these are new injustices happening now.

The Green Line ceased being a border when Egypt, Jordan and Syria decided to have some more fun; perhaps the Palestinians should hold them responsible for all the injustices.

Also, PLO (or whatever organizations preceded it) was conducting terrorist activity even prior to 1967, so it's not as if all was well back then.

However some adjustments or the exchange of territory is possible if both parties agree to negotiations.

Call me when Hamas/Fatah don't have the destruction of Israel part of their official objectives.

I don't understand you.

Here.

 

[Narmer]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: Narmer
Terrorism is here forever. I hope it never goes away becauses it gives a grieving people an avenue to vent their anger. Besides, it's the only way those in power will recognize the weak's strength. And since it can never be defeated militarily, the powerful have to come to the table with a fair political solution. God bless it.

I would defeat it by bombarding each and every village from whence terrorism comes. If they wish to invite bloodshed among their population, then they need to feel the full force of bloodshed. I?d let the very few who survive remind future generations not to start wars they cannot win.

Yet terrorism will continue until we realize we cannot pretend to be ignorant of its damages to us. The desire to win is all we require, the capabilities of blowing away entire civilizations are already within our control.

You have a lot to learn.

Originally posted by: SamurAchzar

Originally posted by: Narmer

Originally posted by: SamurAchzar

Originally posted by: Narmer
Terrorism is here forever. I hope it never goes away becauses it gives a grieving people an avenue to vent their anger. Besides, it's the only way those in power will recognize the weak's strength. And since it can never be defeated militarily, the powerful have to come to the table with a fair political solution. God bless it.

Good to see your true colors.

Israel militarily defeats terror every single day. Why aren't there any more exploding buses? Good will of the Palestinians? Har har har.
The rate of success against terror activity is much greater than 90%.

At the end, those terrorists mostly hurt their own people. Look at the state of the Palestinians after 10 years of non-stopping terror attempts (and successes).

Yeah, you defeat them everyday, for how many years now? You call that defeat? Oh, by the way, you contradicted your first paragraph with the second. Anyway, I hope you continue your triumphs, if you can call it that.

Military defeat, definitely. Despite their enormous will to commit terror in Israel, they are almost unable to. It only brought them more and more misery. A sane nation would admit defeat and aim for a solution.

The only reason the Palestinians still pose a problem is the way the international community likes to intervene with the acts of Israel in this subject.
It prevents decisive acts and lengthens the suffering of both parties.

Oh please, if it wasn't for the "international community" there would be no Israel. Furthermore, the US likes to intervene for the sake of Israel. You've convinced me of nothing.

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: Narmer
Terrorism is here forever. I hope it never goes away becauses it gives a grieving people an avenue to vent their anger. Besides, it's the only way those in power will recognize the weak's strength. And since it can never be defeated militarily, the powerful have to come to the table with a fair political solution. God bless it.

Did you really just say God bless terrorism?

The world is not strictly black and white. Try to be a little more open-minded.

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda

You have a very convoluted opinion. With no facts to back up what you ar stating!!
Germany pussyfied in what way?
They were deafeated hands down....or was the outcome of ww2 different than as stated?

Germany was not the only country that lost the war, yet they, like Japan, had to face up to the massive slaughter of human-life that they committed. That changed their outlook of war. You can see that in the constitution of each nation. The outcome of the war led to massive sympathy for Jews, which led to the creation of the state of Israel. IF you don't think the killing of millions of Jews had nothing to do with Israel, then you are the one that's convoluted.

 

[Jhhnn]

Too bad the average knee-jerk supporter of Israel can't live the life of a Palestinian for, say, six months... We'd be hearing a whole different tune...

Waiting in endless lines at multiple checkpoints, being locked down in your home for days on end... no jobs, no electricity, no water, and a security fence between you and your crops... living off the UN dole... and when some hothead takes a potshot at the Israelis, they level the neighborhood... your neighborhood.

The Israelis treat their domestic animals better.

 

[Screech]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: Narmer
Terrorism is here forever. I hope it never goes away becauses it gives a grieving people an avenue to vent their anger. Besides, it's the only way those in power will recognize the weak's strength. And since it can never be defeated militarily, the powerful have to come to the table with a fair political solution. God bless it.

I would defeat it by bombarding each and every village from whence terrorism comes. If they wish to invite bloodshed among their population, then they need to feel the full force of bloodshed. I?d let the very few who survive remind future generations not to start wars they cannot win.

Yet terrorism will continue until we realize we cannot pretend to be ignorant of its damages to us. The desire to win is all we require, the capabilities of blowing away entire civilizations are already within our control.

Terrorism cannot be militarily defeated.

 

[imported_dna]

Originally posted by: Jhhnn
Waiting in endless lines at multiple checkpoints, being locked down in your home for days on end... no jobs, no electricity, no water, and a security fence between you and your crops... living off the UN dole... and when some hothead takes a potshot at the Israelis, they level the neighborhood... your neighborhood.

Oohhh.... You're breaking my heart....
Too bad you're neglecting the fact that checkpoints, etc came after terrorist attacks.
Also, if Egypt, Jordan, and Syria didn't start a war in 1967 in the Palestinians' name, then there wouldn't be this mess, and the "Palestinians" would be living under the control of the Jordanians and the Egyptians.

BTW, ever wondered why Egypt didn't take back the Gaza strip when Sinai was returned, or why Jordan didn't really care that much for the West bank? I guess they were smart enough to realize that it's not worth the headaches that will come with it.

The Israelis treat their domestic animals better.

Keep it in perspective: tens of thousands citizens were slaughtered in Syria; hundreds of thousands in Iraq; Jordan killed several thousdands Palestinians in a few weeks; and in Iran they handed plastic keys to children and sent them over mine fields.

 

[Narmer]

Originally posted by: dna

Originally posted by: Jhhnn
Waiting in endless lines at multiple checkpoints, being locked down in your home for days on end... no jobs, no electricity, no water, and a security fence between you and your crops... living off the UN dole... and when some hothead takes a potshot at the Israelis, they level the neighborhood... your neighborhood.

Oohhh.... You're breaking my heart....
Too bad you're neglecting the fact that checkpoints, etc came after terrorist attacks.
Also, if Egypt, Jordan, and Syria didn't start a war in 1967 in the Palestinians' name, then there wouldn't be this mess, and the "Palestinians" would be living under the control of the Jordanians and the Egyptians.

BTW, ever wondered why Egypt didn't take back the Gaza strip when Sinai was returned, or why Jordan didn't really care that much for the West bank? I guess they were smart enough to realize that it's not worth the headaches that will come with it.

The Israelis treat their domestic animals better.

Keep it in perspective: tens of thousands citizens were slaughtered in Syria; hundreds of thousands in Iraq; Jordan killed several thousdands Palestinians in a few weeks; and in Iran they handed plastic keys to children and sent them over mine fields.

You have a hard time sticking to the topic at hand, don't you. To me, it seems like you're very defensive. As for terrorism. You can keep saying it until it gives you nightmares, but the terror that Israel dishes out is far worse than what the shaheeds have done. As for the other conflicts, it just underlines the fact that the Palestinians have been a victim for two long. Instead of Israel recognising this fact and treating the Palestinians as neighbors that deserved their land back, Israel just points the fingers at others and says: "Look, they did it and got away with it." And that's exactly what you're doing here.

Pathetic.

 

[SamurAchzar]

Originally posted by: screech

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: Narmer
Terrorism is here forever. I hope it never goes away becauses it gives a grieving people an avenue to vent their anger. Besides, it's the only way those in power will recognize the weak's strength. And since it can never be defeated militarily, the powerful have to come to the table with a fair political solution. God bless it.

I would defeat it by bombarding each and every village from whence terrorism comes. If they wish to invite bloodshed among their population, then they need to feel the full force of bloodshed. I?d let the very few who survive remind future generations not to start wars they cannot win.

Yet terrorism will continue until we realize we cannot pretend to be ignorant of its damages to us. The desire to win is all we require, the capabilities of blowing away entire civilizations are already within our control.

Terrorism cannot be militarily defeated.

That's exactly the kind of intelligent discussion we're looking for here :thumbsup:

 

[SamurAchzar]

Originally posted by: Narmer

Originally posted by: dna

Originally posted by: Jhhnn
Waiting in endless lines at multiple checkpoints, being locked down in your home for days on end... no jobs, no electricity, no water, and a security fence between you and your crops... living off the UN dole... and when some hothead takes a potshot at the Israelis, they level the neighborhood... your neighborhood.

Oohhh.... You're breaking my heart....
Too bad you're neglecting the fact that checkpoints, etc came after terrorist attacks.
Also, if Egypt, Jordan, and Syria didn't start a war in 1967 in the Palestinians' name, then there wouldn't be this mess, and the "Palestinians" would be living under the control of the Jordanians and the Egyptians.

BTW, ever wondered why Egypt didn't take back the Gaza strip when Sinai was returned, or why Jordan didn't really care that much for the West bank? I guess they were smart enough to realize that it's not worth the headaches that will come with it.

The Israelis treat their domestic animals better.

Keep it in perspective: tens of thousands citizens were slaughtered in Syria; hundreds of thousands in Iraq; Jordan killed several thousdands Palestinians in a few weeks; and in Iran they handed plastic keys to children and sent them over mine fields.

You have a hard time sticking to the topic at hand, don't you. To me, it seems like you're very defensive. As for terrorism. You can keep saying it until it gives you nightmares, but the terror that Israel dishes out is far worse than what the shaheeds have done. As for the other conflicts, it just underlines the fact that the Palestinians have been a victim for two long. Instead of Israel recognising this fact and treating the Palestinians as neighbors that deserved their land back, Israel just points the fingers at others and says: "Look, they did it and got away with it." And that's exactly what you're doing here.

Pathetic.

You can't ignore the chain of events that led to the current situation in Gaza and the West Bank. They had everything going very well during the 90's. What happend since then? What happend during the Oslo process, when a bus would have exploded in Israel every day, but the Palestinians enjoyed great liberties compared to today?

 

[imported_dna]

Originally posted by: Narmer
You have a hard time sticking to the topic at hand, don't you.

Funny, it doesn't seem like I'm the one who saw it necessary to mention Hitler.

it just underlines the fact that the Palestinians have been a victim for two long.

So, Israel has to pay for the 1967 war, which was triggered by Egypt and Syria?
Not to mention that if Jordan had stayed out of the war, then Israel would have never been forced to take over the West Bank.

 

[Narmer]

Originally posted by: SamurAchzar

Originally posted by: Narmer

Originally posted by: dna

Originally posted by: Jhhnn
Waiting in endless lines at multiple checkpoints, being locked down in your home for days on end... no jobs, no electricity, no water, and a security fence between you and your crops... living off the UN dole... and when some hothead takes a potshot at the Israelis, they level the neighborhood... your neighborhood.

Oohhh.... You're breaking my heart....
Too bad you're neglecting the fact that checkpoints, etc came after terrorist attacks.
Also, if Egypt, Jordan, and Syria didn't start a war in 1967 in the Palestinians' name, then there wouldn't be this mess, and the "Palestinians" would be living under the control of the Jordanians and the Egyptians.

BTW, ever wondered why Egypt didn't take back the Gaza strip when Sinai was returned, or why Jordan didn't really care that much for the West bank? I guess they were smart enough to realize that it's not worth the headaches that will come with it.

The Israelis treat their domestic animals better.

Keep it in perspective: tens of thousands citizens were slaughtered in Syria; hundreds of thousands in Iraq; Jordan killed several thousdands Palestinians in a few weeks; and in Iran they handed plastic keys to children and sent them over mine fields.

You have a hard time sticking to the topic at hand, don't you. To me, it seems like you're very defensive. As for terrorism. You can keep saying it until it gives you nightmares, but the terror that Israel dishes out is far worse than what the shaheeds have done. As for the other conflicts, it just underlines the fact that the Palestinians have been a victim for two long. Instead of Israel recognising this fact and treating the Palestinians as neighbors that deserved their land back, Israel just points the fingers at others and says: "Look, they did it and got away with it." And that's exactly what you're doing here.

Pathetic.

You can't ignore the chain of events that led to the current situation in Gaza and the West Bank. They had everything going very well during the 90's. What happend since then? What happend during the Oslo process, when a bus would have exploded in Israel every day, but the Palestinians enjoyed great liberties compared to today?

You can deceive others with your lies but you certainly won't deceive me. The restrictions on movement was severe then as it is today. The reaction to a suicide bomber was harsh. There was collective punishment then as there is today. Come back with the truth or don't come at all.

Originally posted by: SamurAchzar

Originally posted by: screech

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: Narmer
Terrorism is here forever. I hope it never goes away becauses it gives a grieving people an avenue to vent their anger. Besides, it's the only way those in power will recognize the weak's strength. And since it can never be defeated militarily, the powerful have to come to the table with a fair political solution. God bless it.

I would defeat it by bombarding each and every village from whence terrorism comes. If they wish to invite bloodshed among their population, then they need to feel the full force of bloodshed. I?d let the very few who survive remind future generations not to start wars they cannot win.

Yet terrorism will continue until we realize we cannot pretend to be ignorant of its damages to us. The desire to win is all we require, the capabilities of blowing away entire civilizations are already within our control.

Terrorism cannot be militarily defeated.

That's exactly the kind of intelligent discussion we're looking for here :thumbsup:

Are you saying otherwise? If so, show me one instant in history where terrorism was defeated militarily (that means EXCLUDING ANY political solution). I'll be waiting for your answer.

 

[Narmer]

Originally posted by: dna

Originally posted by: Narmer
You have a hard time sticking to the topic at hand, don't you.

Funny, it doesn't seem like I'm the one who saw it necessary to mention Hitler.

Well, IMHO Hitler had a DIRECT impact on the creation of the state of Israel. Furthermore, Zionism is a racist institution, just like the NAZI institution that permeated Germany during Hitler's reign.

it just underlines the fact that the Palestinians have been a victim for two long.

So, Israel has to pay for the 1967 war, which was triggered by Egypt and Syria?
Not to mention that if Jordan had stayed out of the war, then Israel would have never been forced to take over the West Bank.

Israel knows that it cannot hold on to those territories. International law says it's illegal. The Jewish population is decreasing relative to the Palestinians population, who already make up 20% of Israel proper. And there are 300 million Arabs surrounding that tiny piece of land. Why delay the inevitable? Holding on to those land will continue to make life unberable for Israelis. Furthermore, the neocon plan of "Peace in the Middle East goes through Baghdad" has been shattered. Now, you have the rise of an extremely hostile Shi'ite power in Iran, Iraq, Syria, and Lebanon. It's so bad for Israel that PM Olmert was calling on the Sunnis to help Israel hold back the rise of Shi'te power in the new Middle East. Things will come to a head. Israel is more vulnerable then she realizes with her bravado in Palestine. Nevertheless, common sense will give her the moral and legal upperhand iff (if and only if) she resolves the Palestinian issue. Otherwise, that show in Lebanon earlier this summer will be the opening act of end of the long and protracted war of attrition against the Jewish state.

If you are an Israeli, it's better to listen to reason than the religious fanatics in America. They have nothing to lose if your country gets nuked. Don't pay attention to the religious fanatics in your country either, they are no different from the religious fanatics in mosques.

 

[imported_dna]

Originally posted by: Narmer
You can deceive others with your lies but you certainly won't deceive me. The restrictions on movement was severe then as it is today. The reaction to a suicide bomber was harsh. There was collective punishment then as there is today. Come back with the truth or don't come at all.

You wouldn't happen to have any links, would you?

Are you saying otherwise? If so, show me one instant in history where terrorism was defeated militarily (that means EXCLUDING ANY political solution). I'll be waiting for your answer.

Hama, Syria
You just kill them all; simple, isn't it?
Even if you don't get them all, those left would think twice or even thrice before messing with out.

 

[SamurAchzar]

Originally posted by: Narmer

Originally posted by: SamurAchzar

Originally posted by: Narmer

Originally posted by: dna

Originally posted by: Jhhnn
Waiting in endless lines at multiple checkpoints, being locked down in your home for days on end... no jobs, no electricity, no water, and a security fence between you and your crops... living off the UN dole... and when some hothead takes a potshot at the Israelis, they level the neighborhood... your neighborhood.

Oohhh.... You're breaking my heart....
Too bad you're neglecting the fact that checkpoints, etc came after terrorist attacks.
Also, if Egypt, Jordan, and Syria didn't start a war in 1967 in the Palestinians' name, then there wouldn't be this mess, and the "Palestinians" would be living under the control of the Jordanians and the Egyptians.

BTW, ever wondered why Egypt didn't take back the Gaza strip when Sinai was returned, or why Jordan didn't really care that much for the West bank? I guess they were smart enough to realize that it's not worth the headaches that will come with it.

The Israelis treat their domestic animals better.

Keep it in perspective: tens of thousands citizens were slaughtered in Syria; hundreds of thousands in Iraq; Jordan killed several thousdands Palestinians in a few weeks; and in Iran they handed plastic keys to children and sent them over mine fields.

You have a hard time sticking to the topic at hand, don't you. To me, it seems like you're very defensive. As for terrorism. You can keep saying it until it gives you nightmares, but the terror that Israel dishes out is far worse than what the shaheeds have done. As for the other conflicts, it just underlines the fact that the Palestinians have been a victim for two long. Instead of Israel recognising this fact and treating the Palestinians as neighbors that deserved their land back, Israel just points the fingers at others and says: "Look, they did it and got away with it." And that's exactly what you're doing here.

Pathetic.

You can't ignore the chain of events that led to the current situation in Gaza and the West Bank. They had everything going very well during the 90's. What happend since then? What happend during the Oslo process, when a bus would have exploded in Israel every day, but the Palestinians enjoyed great liberties compared to today?

You can deceive others with your lies but you certainly won't deceive me. The restrictions on movement was severe then as it is today. The reaction to a suicide bomber was harsh. There was collective punishment then as there is today. Come back with the truth or don't come at all.

Rabin said, and I'm one that will never forget these words of plain stupidity and naivity, that "those are the victims of peace", and never taken considerable military action during the 90's. Could you point otherwise? I mean, it's much more difficult showing something WASN'T done than the opposite. So go ahead, show me what Israel did in Gaza and the West Bank during the 90's. Sure there were actions, but on a very small scale.

It wasn't until 2002 that the Israeli goverment finally decided that enough is enough and went to the operation in Jenin.

Originally posted by: SamurAchzar

Originally posted by: screech

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: Narmer
Terrorism is here forever. I hope it never goes away becauses it gives a grieving people an avenue to vent their anger. Besides, it's the only way those in power will recognize the weak's strength. And since it can never be defeated militarily, the powerful have to come to the table with a fair political solution. God bless it.

I would defeat it by bombarding each and every village from whence terrorism comes. If they wish to invite bloodshed among their population, then they need to feel the full force of bloodshed. I?d let the very few who survive remind future generations not to start wars they cannot win.

Yet terrorism will continue until we realize we cannot pretend to be ignorant of its damages to us. The desire to win is all we require, the capabilities of blowing away entire civilizations are already within our control.

Terrorism cannot be militarily defeated.

That's exactly the kind of intelligent discussion we're looking for here :thumbsup:

Are you saying otherwise? If so, show me one instant in history where terrorism was defeated militarily (that means EXCLUDING ANY political solution). I'll be waiting for your answer.

Israel, again, is doing it every day. How else could you explain the relative lack of terror inside Israel? Israel is the only developed country to ever deal with such massive terror and it's doing it damn well. The ones to really suffer are the Palestinians.