Israel is pretty racist against Jews with the wrong color skin too

[QuantumPion]

Nope, no racism in Israel:

http://www.timesofisrael.com/most-israeli-jews-agree-africans-are-a-cancer/

"Fifty-two percent of Jewish Israelis identify with the statement by MK Miri Regev last month that African migrants are “a cancer in the body” of the nation, and over a third condone anti-migrant violence, according to the Israel Democracy Institute (IDI) Peace Index for May 2012."

http://www.vice.com/read/israeli-racism-gaza-kleinfeld-511

News flash: 52% of every country do not like immigrants. Just ask Americans about mexicans, or French about north Africans, or Germans about arabs, or Japanese about SE Asia, etc., etc.

 

[nehalem256]

Nope, no racism in Israel:

http://www.timesofisrael.com/most-israeli-jews-agree-africans-are-a-cancer/

"Fifty-two percent of Jewish Israelis identify with the statement by MK Miri Regev last month that African migrants are “a cancer in the body” of the nation, and over a third condone anti-migrant violence, according to the Israel Democracy Institute (IDI) Peace Index for May 2012."

http://www.vice.com/read/israeli-racism-gaza-kleinfeld-511

Wait. You mean they think bringing in immigrants from a 3rd World Country isn't a good thing?

Surely this could not be for any reason other than the color of their skin?:hmm:

 

[networkman]

Has anyone ever lived around one of the orthodox communities in the US? They were the most intolerant, unfriendly and insular people I've met anywhere I've ever lived.

It was very clear there was an us and them, didn't matter what color you were, you were not them and they wanted nothing to do with you. Didn't really care for fellow Americans, the US is just a convenient place to support Israel from.

I'm sorry that that was your experience; I'm sure there are plenty of communities that maintain an us/them mentality and not limited just to Jews.

My own experience with Jewish people (here in the U.S.) has been considerably more positive. Admittedly, my neighbors were very "guarded" initially, even standoffish. But over time and being a good neighbor we were able to establish a rapport and mutual respect. We had to acknowledge our differences in faith as I am a Christian, but I came to appreciate their rich heritage and extensive knowledge of the Old Testament, eventually being invited to share in the Pesach or Passover meal. It was quite meaningful to me and I miss my friends very much.

 

[Oyeve]

Has anyone ever lived around one of the orthodox communities in the US? They were the most intolerant, unfriendly and insular people I've met anywhere I've ever lived.

It was very clear there was an us and them, didn't matter what color you were, you were not them and they wanted nothing to do with you. Didn't really care for fellow Americans, the US is just a convenient place to support Israel from.

There are more faces to Israel than the secular East America version we are presented with.

I currently live in a 90% orthodox community in NYC and it's very true that they hate you off the bat and even tho I have lived here all my life they will never trust me and probably hate my guts. My GF is of russian jew heritage and they snub her as well. These people will never ever change.

 

[Atreus21]

I'm sorry that that was your experience; I'm sure there are plenty of communities that maintain an us/them mentality and not limited just to Jews.

My own experience with Jewish people (here in the U.S.) has been considerably more positive. Admittedly, my neighbors were very "guarded" initially, even standoffish. But over time and being a good neighbor we were able to establish a rapport and mutual respect. We had to acknowledge our differences in faith as I am a Christian, but I came to appreciate their rich heritage and extensive knowledge of the Old Testament, eventually being invited to share in the Pesach or Passover meal. It was quite meaningful to me and I miss my friends very much.

Please don't derail the intent of the thread, sir.

 

[Moonbeam]

Self hate doesn't even enter the discussion, Moonbeam.

Far better to think about love, and Moonbeams.

-John

Your ignorance does not transfer to others. Real love is not possible when there is self hate. Love implies trust and openness, a state that terrifies you. To trust and to be open is to be able to feel. You don't want to know. You want to contest with me. You can deny to the end of time but it won't change anything.

 

[networkman]

Please don't derail the intent of the thread, sir.

The intent of the thread is to keeping throwing fecal matter into the fan hoping some it will stick to the wall and hold, all because the OP has a beef against Israel.

So for me to comment and share my positive experience is an improvement and attempt to bring some semblance of decency to an otherwise valueless post.

 

[Exophase]

Has anyone ever lived around one of the orthodox communities in the US? They were the most intolerant, unfriendly and insular people I've met anywhere I've ever lived.

It was very clear there was an us and them, didn't matter what color you were, you were not them and they wanted nothing to do with you. Didn't really care for fellow Americans, the US is just a convenient place to support Israel from.

There are more faces to Israel than the secular East America version we are presented with.

If your biggest claim to intolerance with a group of people is that they're very isolated then I can't imagine you've really met very intolerant people. What is your opinion of the Amish? I think when you live a very disciplined lifestyle with tons of rules and restrictions it makes it harder to interact with others who don't in a way that seems normal.

I live around orthodox here, they go about their business and it's hard to look at them as problematic since they don't seem to negatively influence anything. I also have no idea what their support of Israel is and I wonder how you got this impression of people you describe to be very insular. Zionism isn't universal amongst Jews, even the orthodox, ie http://www.nkusa.org/

As for Israel, about 20% of Jews there are orthodox or ultra-orthodox, which is a lot but still a minority.

 

[Harabec]

I'll try to bring up a few points, even though this is just another hate thread...

1)Yes, we strongly dislike the work immigrants who come from various parts of Africa under the guise of refugees. They have nothing to do with our (or the arab israelis') culture while bringing crime and poverty.
There is a small number of actual refugees (mostly from the fighting in Sudan - which nobody else cares about) and Israel is about the only country in the area which does not shoot them on sight or extorts every last penny from their family.
If anyone has a problem with this, we can ship them to you ASAP so you can take better care of them.

2) Every Aliyah has had a generation or two which did not and most likely could not assimilate into the prelevant culture. This happened decades earlier, it happened to the first (and sometimes second) generation of Ethiopeans and to a fair number of russians.
Today the younger folks join the army and move on to study and work like everyone else.
This takes time, and that time is counted in generations, not weeks\couple of years.

3) The vast majority of our population does not like the ultra-orthodox (haredi) way of life because they are seen as parasites on the back of hard working families who do send their loved ones to war and pay ridiculous amounts of taxes (that pay for the welfare benefits of those same people).
I should note that even in the group, there are those who mingle, study and work and those who don't. It is not black and white.

I don't mind if I convinced anyone about anything, I've seen people hate my very existance for no reason at all, they will keep hating even if we suddenly all live in peace and the messiah himself comes.

 

[Victorian Gray]

News flash: 52% of every country do not like immigrants. Just ask Americans about mexicans, or French about north Africans, or Germans about arabs, or Japanese about SE Asia, etc., etc.

Quick! Look over there! No, over there!, No, I mean over there!

 

[Victorian Gray]

Wait. You mean they think bringing in immigrants from a 3rd World Country isn't a good thing?

Surely this could not be for any reason other than the color of their skin?:hmm:

Toaster kick you out of bed again?

 

[Nebor]

I've been in a Tel Aviv McDonalds where armed security was patting people down as they entered. I saw them pat the guy in front of me, lift up the back of his jacket to expose a handgun stuck in the waistband of his pants, look at his face, then wave him through. That guy didn't shoot up the place, so it seems like Israel's system works.

 

[Whiskey16]

Thank you, Harabec, for demonstrating and reaffirming the OP's charges of supremacist and generalised xenophobic racism:

I'll try to bring up a few points, even though this is just another hate thread...

1)Yes, we strongly dislike the work immigrants who come from various parts of Africa under the guise of refugees. They have nothing to do with our (or the arab israelis') culture while bringing crime and poverty.
...
If anyone has a problem with this, we can ship them to you ASAP so you can take better care of them.

Damn those sub-Saharan darkies, eh?

This ain't a "hate thread" if the charges of race based "hate" are supported.

 

[Harabec]

I say they bring crime and poverty because they do. They could have been from Japan, it would not matter - they are still illegals posing as refugees looking for work - while bringing drugs, murder theft and rape along with them. This is fact and something we see every day here.
No one wants that kind of thing...maybe you do.

You say this isn't a hate thread then call me a supremacist and xenophobic racist because I don't want illegals carrying drugs across the border and setting up shop around me.
I say bullshit.

 

[Whiskey16]

...while bringing drugs, murder theft and rape along with them [darkies]

The US history is littered with lynchings against the black scapegoats.

Hell, this forum has number of locked threads and banished membership for racist agendas against groups of races/ethnicities who did not belong amongst good ol'white folk. Mixing only brings problems.

Oh wait? I recall another instance of history where a group was isolated and condemned for the crime they brought. Jews in Germany.

Full circle of xenophobic and bigoted racism. Thank you, for the applicable examples, Harabec.

 

[Whiskey16]

Harabec, to demonstrate your racist and xenophobic position is not an outlier, I do prefer to argue from a position of cited strength:

Times of Israel

"52% of Israeli Jews agree: African migrants are ‘a cancer’"

Fifty-two percent of Jewish Israelis identify with the statement by MK Miri Regev last month that African migrants are “a cancer in the body” of the nation, and over a third condone anti-migrant violence, according to the Israel Democracy Institute (IDI) Peace Index for May 2012.

..

The Peace Index also gauged respondents’ opinions of foreign workers from various countries and found that workers from Africa were a larger source of concern for Israeli Jews than were workers from other continents. Thus, while between 30 and 40 percent of Jewish respondents were moderately or greatly disturbed by the presence of non-African foreign workers, that figure climbed to 56.7 when it came to workers from Ghana and Nigeria and 65.2 for Sudanese and Eritrean job seekers.

 

[Bitek]

I'm sorry that that was your experience; I'm sure there are plenty of communities that maintain an us/them mentality and not limited just to Jews.

My own experience with Jewish people (here in the U.S.) has been considerably more positive. Admittedly, my neighbors were very "guarded" initially, even standoffish. But over time and being a good neighbor we were able to establish a rapport and mutual respect. We had to acknowledge our differences in faith as I am a Christian, but I came to appreciate their rich heritage and extensive knowledge of the Old Testament, eventually being invited to share in the Pesach or Passover meal. It was quite meaningful to me and I miss my friends very much.

Let me take a bit of time with this, as I'm taking about a particularly extreme group, and the point is delicate.

What I'm not taking about is the average observant/moderate groups of people. In currently in the NE, and I have friends and coworkers from every corner of the globe. That's how it is around here, and it's very enlightening to be able to really know people from such diverse backgrounds.

However, in that diversity, you also get some groups who are not that fantastic, and just want to import the same bullshit that screwed up their home countries in the first place. I'm sure you have examples from your neck of the woods.

One particularly notable example of this is this little town in upstate NY not far from West Point academy. I don't want to retell the whole tale, and the wiki page/Google is loaded with info, but I have a strong argument that this is an unusual place in the US.

Notable cliffs:

-Hasidic village (KJ) and surrounding towns are at constant legal war over segregationist policies of the orthodox.

-Poorest town in America. Half of the residents receive food stamps, and one third receive Medicaid benefits and rely on federal vouchers to help pay their housing costs. Over 90% are on some subsidized healthcare.

-KJ (pop 20000) ranks at the top in the country atlobbying the national govt Needless to say they tend to be very successful at getting public funds

-lawsuits over building gender segregated playground (yes pink and blue equipment) using shadowy sources of public funds.

-Strict religious views on the roles of women, importance of secular education, and integration with the greater community. Ie, backwards visions of them.

Point of all this? Some of these orthodox groups are very extreme and entangle strict religious views with govt and many aspects of public life, as well as absolutist in their views of who belongs to the community and how they should behave. One would be tempted to compare it to sharia.

Israel is a collection of groups from all over the globe, and we shouldn't assume they all share our views or interests. Ultra orthodox make up a sizable portion of the country and have considerable political influence.
We need to pay more attention to the complexities of the groups fighting over there and who we are funding, and not just take the simplistic view of the good guy secular, capitalist Israelis fighting the bloodthirsty savage Muslim terrorists. There are good and bad guys on both sides, and being so blind to it does not serve us or the situation well.

 

[Whiskey16]

Point of all this? Some of these orthodox groups are very extreme and entangle strict religious views with govt and many aspects of public life, as well as absolutist in their views of who belongs to the community and

To support Bitek's point, this from within the article I just linked upon the disproportionate racism against blacks in Israel:

The degree of religiosity attested to by respondents also accounted for a large disparity in the findings, with 81.5% and 66% of self-described ultra-Orthodox and Orthodox, respectively, agreeing with Regev’s statement, as opposed to 38% of secular Israelis.

 

[Moonbeam]

I say they bring crime and poverty because they do. They could have been from Japan, it would not matter - they are still illegals posing as refugees looking for work - while bringing drugs, murder theft and rape along with them. This is fact and something we see every day here.
No one wants that kind of thing...maybe you do.

You say this isn't a hate thread then call me a supremacist and xenophobic racist because I don't want illegals carrying drugs across the border and setting up shop around me.
I say bullshit.

That's nothing. Wait till they own the banks and the media and try to establish a New World Order of Dark Jewry. You will need to round them up and gas them to be safe.

 

[Strk]

Thank you, Harabec, for demonstrating and reaffirming the OP's charges of supremacist and generalised xenophobic racismamn those sub-Saharan darkies, eh?

This ain't a "hate thread" if the charges of race based "hate" are supported.

People tend not to like immigrants. The color is irrelevant. It's even worse if they're refugees.

 

[alcoholbob]

People tend not to like immigrants. The color is irrelevant. It's even worse if they're refugees.

That's true, worse things have been said of European immigrants at the turn of the last century. However, when your kids look like everyone else's kids and they grow up in one a single culture they integrate seamlessly even if the immigrants themselves cannot assimilate. The same can't be said for some groups who have been in the country for generations--it doesn't matter how many generations your family has been in the country, whether you don't speak with an accent or have a middle class lifestyle and mannerisms--people will ask you what country you come from and consider you a non-native when you don't look like the majority group.

For example, the thousands of Mexican families who became naturalized citizens after the Mexican-American War in the 1840s predates the Great Wave immigrants by decades, but they certainly have not assimilated into the cultural mainstream as the children of later European immigrants.

 

[JEDIYoda]

I'll try to bring up a few points, even though this is just another hate thread...

1)Yes, we strongly dislike the work immigrants who come from various parts of Africa under the guise of refugees. They have nothing to do with our (or the arab israelis') culture while bringing crime and poverty.
There is a small number of actual refugees (mostly from the fighting in Sudan - which nobody else cares about) and Israel is about the only country in the area which does not shoot them on sight or extorts every last penny from their family.
If anyone has a problem with this, we can ship them to you ASAP so you can take better care of them.

2) Every Aliyah has had a generation or two which did not and most likely could not assimilate into the prelevant culture. This happened decades earlier, it happened to the first (and sometimes second) generation of Ethiopeans and to a fair number of russians.
Today the younger folks join the army and move on to study and work like everyone else.
This takes time, and that time is counted in generations, not weeks\couple of years.

3) The vast majority of our population does not like the ultra-orthodox (haredi) way of life because they are seen as parasites on the back of hard working families who do send their loved ones to war and pay ridiculous amounts of taxes (that pay for the welfare benefits of those same people).
I should note that even in the group, there are those who mingle, study and work and those who don't. It is not black and white.

I don't mind if I convinced anyone about anything, I've seen people hate my very existance for no reason at all, they will keep hating even if we suddenly all live in peace and the messiah himself comes.

<-- NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH!! It doesn`t matter that anybody`s opinion is different or that names are being called such as supremacist and generalised xenophobic racism.....
Israel caqn do whatever it want with it`s own country........the sad part is quite a few of you will never believe the truth or understand the truth because you have not lived in Israel and you know nothing of what Harabec tried valiantly to tell you.....

Even the United States immigration department tries to keep the rift raft out......
The United States is unique because we actually desire people to immigrate and make a life for themselves...other countries are not so open and Israel is not the exception..there are a lot of countries that are like Israel when it comes to immigration!

 

[Whiskey16]

The color is irrelevant.

You failed to read the supporting contradictions to your colour blindness from my post, then.

 

[Whiskey16]

It doesn`t matter that anybody`s opinion is different or that names are being called such as supremacist and generalised xenophobic racism.....
Israel caqn do whatever it want with it`s own country........

..

Even the United States immigration department tries to keep the rift raft out......

:sneaky:

Thank you, as Harebec, for supporting the thesis for the presence of racist xenophobia.

 

[Moonbeam]

:sneaky:

Thank you, as Harebec, for supporting the thesis for the presence of racist xenophobia.

He sees great moral value in his opinion, just like the Germans did. We only do what's right, no matter how much we need to deny to believe it.