Israel impeding effort to clear cluster bombs

[DarkThinker]

Originally posted by: Ozoned

The problem is that many Arabs believe that includes all of Israel - not just the land they've taken and used as buffer zones.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Who cares, the Arabs under the Arab League unanimously presented Israel through their Egyptian and Jordanian members a peace proposal, it's in their hands if they want to have peace or not.
I am almost sure that Israel will not agree but I am going to sit back and watch for 10-20 more years and see if Israel will ever show a positive move towards that but I am not holding my breath...

Israel:-----The people that present their peace proposal would like to have their lands returned that they lost in a war that they launched. What's in it for us?



Arabs:-----Peace.



Israel:----Uhhhhhhh, then why did you attack us in the 1st place?-



Arabs:-----Because you don't have a right to exist.



Israel:-----Fvck You.

They got attacked because they have taken Arabic land and forced people out of their lands, then on top of that declared the state of Israel on that land. Don't start pretending that Israel has a clean sheet, they had their mobs before the establishment doing the dirty work for them.

I don't know why you are arguing about this, it's just not right. Israel itself has always said to countries like Syria, Egypt and Jordan that they will only get their lands back if they recognize it within the terms of a peace treaty. Egypt and Jordan already did and Syria was in the process of negotiating a similar deal a while back.

You are missing a main point here, there is a big compromise for both the Israel and the Arabic countries. They (the Arab league) are offering recognition of the state of Israel and promising normalized relations such as what Egypt and Jordan has, and that pretty much includes diplomatic relations and trade. For Israel to give up land that they took over is a compromise and for the Arabs to accept Israel as a country living amongst their midst peacefully is another compromise.

That's how peace treaties all over the world are struck, it's about reaching a middle point.

 

[DarkThinker]

Originally posted by: piasabird
Your issue is you may be anti-semitic. Why are you so staunchly against Isreal? What would you have done if you were the leader of Isreal and you had people in Lebanon bombing your country with rockets for over one week? Isreal defended itself, so the country of Lebanon got what it deserved. They are giving shelter and aid to terrorists. That makes the civilians accomplices to terrorism.

Where was the UN when all of these terrorsist moved into Lebanon. The UN had people in Lebanon who were suppose to be observers. Why were they there? Was their job to help terrorists? Is the UN Mandate to ignore terrorism or is it to keep the peace? What on Earth was the UN doing there.

Since then there was a supposed UN Peace keeping force that moved into Lebanon. What are they doing to keep the peace now? How come you dont hear no reports on what the UN is doing to keep the peace?

Why should Isreal help it's enemies? They have no reason to help people who give aid to terrorists. What about the Civilians who were killed by people in Lebanon? Do you even care about the civilians in Isreal?

First of all piasibird, UN observers are what they are named observers they keep track of what is going on and don't interfere in what is going on militarily. The UN in cooperation with the Lebanese Army have successfully created a buffer zone that Hizbollah can't possibly penetrate, what more do you want?

Second thing, Hizbollah had the right under international law to fight Israeli incursion from the south only and they were the soul reason why Israel was kicked out of the south back in 2000. They went at it for decades, don't pretend that Hizbollah just arrived a week before the conflict. Their creation was due to Israel's occupation of Lebanon and there were always skirmishes in the South.

Third point, I don't think it's wise to call others who mainly attack military positions terrorists meanwhile supporting the use of weapons that are under international law banned from being used against civilians. Supporting the creation if a huge anti-civilian minefield in most of Southern Lebanon, is just an act of terrorism in it's own right.

Despite all the proof that I have presented here, I have yet to see a single pro-Israeli member here that is willing to condemn the use of the cluster bombs on the civilian population. On the contrary I see there was a big support for it in here.

Fourth point, do I care for the civilians of Israel? At a humanitarian level yes I do, and I have mentioned it over and over and in this thread. let me quote myself from another post:

Second thing, palehorse74 and Acanthus, your undignified response just demonstrates to us a nice sample of what constitutes a good portion of the pro-Israeli movement. Not even I condone attacks on Israeli civilians, because it's just wrong both in my religious and logical concepts heck not even if part of a retaliation, and to top it off I am a Lebanese and a Muslim that had close innocent people who were targeted by Israel for no good reason.


Here is a nice paragraph from an article from Human Rights Watch:

...
The Israeli government claims that it targets only Hezbollah, and that fighters from the group are using civilians as human shields, thereby placing them at risk. Human Rights Watch found no cases in which Hezbollah deliberately used civilians as shields to protect them from retaliatory IDF attack. Hezbollah occasionally did store weapons in or near civilian homes and fighters placed rocket launchers within populated areas or near U.N. observers, which are serious violations of the laws of war because they violate the duty to take all feasible precautions to avoid civilian casualties. However, those cases do not justify the IDF?s extensive use of indiscriminate force which has cost so many civilian lives. In none of the cases of civilian deaths documented in this report is there evidence to suggest that Hezbollah forces or weapons were in or near the area that the IDF targeted during or just prior to the attack.
...

Full Article

What do the civilians have to do with it? It's so easy to imagine that Hizbollah was using everyone as a shield, yet there is no proof of it. Israel just handed the entire Lebanese population a pre-determined mass death sentence just because Hizbollah launched a skirmish from their usual squabble area in Lebanon. Much more people than you think were no where near any Hizbollah locations and rocket launchings when they got killed, and I know many personally too.

I tried to steer everyone from the subject of who to blame for the war because this is not what the OP is about!

If anyone here is interested in proving to me that Israel attacked the Lebanese civilian population because "it had no other option", then please be kind enough to address the real topic of this thread and explain away why Israel launched %90 of it's cluster bombs at densely civilian populated area which for the most part didn't have any Hizbollah presence given the incursion into Lebanon after it had reached an agreement with the UN and Hizbollah? Explain why the Israeli army lied to their own soldiers and told them that they weren't firing those cluster bombs on civilian areas?

Why isn't anyone addressing that?[/quote]

Here is my stance, those who think Israel doesn't have any obligation to hand over vital information about the location of mines and cluster bombs that are endangering civilian lives on a daily basis are just terrorists. No other explanation can be.

So your conclusion is that I am an anti-smite? Was that all you were able to muster for an argument? You had no issues with the deliberate killing of innocent civilians through cluster bombs but you decided I am an anti-smite?? TBH I consider myself as semitic as Jews are so I don't think I am anti-semitic by any means.

 

[Nebor]

Despite all the proof that I have presented here, I have yet to see a single pro-Israeli member here that is willing to condemn the use of the cluster bombs on the civilian population. On the contrary I see there was a big support for it in here.

Fourth point, do I care for the civilians of Israel? At a humanitarian level yes I do, and I have mentioned it over and over and in this thread. let me quote myself from another post:

Second thing, palehorse74 and Acanthus, your undignified response just demonstrates to us a nice sample of what constitutes a good portion of the pro-Israeli movement. Not even I condone attacks on Israeli civilians, because it's just wrong both in my religious and logical concepts heck not even if part of a retaliation, and to top it off I am a Lebanese and a Muslim that had close innocent people who were targeted by Israel for no good reason.

We have the good sense to recognize our enemy when we see him. We have no compunction about Israel's actions, or the collateral damage resulting in the loss of Arab civilian life.

That's super that you care about Israel civlians. You're better than us. On a higher moral plane. Maybe that will shield you from the next blast.

 

[DarkThinker]

Originally posted by: Nebor

Despite all the proof that I have presented here, I have yet to see a single pro-Israeli member here that is willing to condemn the use of the cluster bombs on the civilian population. On the contrary I see there was a big support for it in here.

Fourth point, do I care for the civilians of Israel? At a humanitarian level yes I do, and I have mentioned it over and over and in this thread. let me quote myself from another post:

Second thing, palehorse74 and Acanthus, your undignified response just demonstrates to us a nice sample of what constitutes a good portion of the pro-Israeli movement. Not even I condone attacks on Israeli civilians, because it's just wrong both in my religious and logical concepts heck not even if part of a retaliation, and to top it off I am a Lebanese and a Muslim that had close innocent people who were targeted by Israel for no good reason.

We have the good sense to recognize our enemy when we see him. We have no compunction about Israel's actions, or the collateral damage resulting in the loss of Arab civilian life.

That's super that you care about Israel civlians. You're better than us. On a higher moral plane. Maybe that will shield you from the next blast.

I care not be shielded from anyone's blast, unlike you I care to be shielded from God's wrath.

 

[Ozoned]

Originally posted by: DarkThinker


I care not be shielded from anyone's blast, unlike you I care to be shielded from God's wrath.

Israel:-----We are God's chosen people....Fvck you.

 

[Nebor]

Originally posted by: Ozoned

Originally posted by: DarkThinker


I care not be shielded from anyone's blast, unlike you I care to be shielded from God's wrath.

Israel:-----We are God's chosen people....Fvck you.

Agreed, the Israeli's have the pretend God on their side, being God's chosen people, and the de facto god on their side (the USA.) Either way, you're going against God's wrath.

 

[DarkThinker]

Originally posted by: Ozoned

Originally posted by: DarkThinker


I care not be shielded from anyone's blast, unlike you I care to be shielded from God's wrath.

Israel:-----We were God's chosen people....we are Fvkced!

FIXED

 

[Ozoned]

IDF concludes cluster bomb use legal
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Despite several cases during the Second Lebanon War when cluster bombs were not used within the guidelines set by the General Staff, Judge Advocate General Brig.-Gen. Avihai Mandelblit has decided not to take any legal measures against commanders who deviated from those orders, the IDF announced on Monday.


The announcement came close to a year-and-a-half after an investigation - headed by OC IDF National Defense College Maj.-Gen. Gershon Hacohen, - was launched into the military's controversial use of cluster bombs during the month-long war against Hizbullah in 2006.

Mandelblit accepted Hacohen's conclusions that, in all cases, cluster bombs were used in accordance with international law, though not necessarily the guidelines of the General Staff.

A previous probe, conducted by Brig.-Gen. Michel Ben-Baruch from the IDF's Ground Forces Command, found that the use of cluster bombs during the war did not match the orders regulated by then-chief of staff Lt.-Gen. (res.) Dan Halutz.

"The use of the weaponry was legal once it was determined that [it was needed] in order to prevent rocket fire into Israel," Mandelblit's statement read. "Its use was a concrete military necessity."

According to Hacohen's probe, the majority of cluster bombs were dropped in open and uninhabited areas and when the bomblets were dropped in urban areas it was done as an "immediate response" to target areas that were being used as launch-pads by Hizbullah guerrillas. Mandelblit said that even in cases when commanders deviated from the orders, their actions were still in accordance with international law.

Israel came under harsh criticism following the war for its use of the controversial weapon that continues to maim civilians in southern Lebanon.

Most criticism came from international human rights groups and the UN. The UN undersecretary for humanitarian affairs, Jan Egeland, defined Israel's use of cluster bombs as "immoral" and called on the countries supplying Israel with the bombs to discuss their future sales of these arms to the IDF.

The UN human rights council also passed a resolution forming a three-member committee to investigate allegations that Israel violated human rights during the war.

Mandelblit's report rejected the accusation that the IDF committed war crimes and claimed that Hizbullah's use of forestry areas left the Israeli military with no choice but to use weaponry, like cluster bombs, which provide maximum coverage within the targeted area.

Mandelblit further found that cluster bombs were fired in accordance with the military principle of distinction between combatants and civilians, and were used only when the commanding officer determined that the potential damage to civilians, as well as infrastructure, was not disproportionate to the military advantage to be gained from firing cluster bombs.

 

[Noobtastic]

OH NOES!!! BURN ISRAEL!!!

XD

 

[Nebor]

Originally posted by: Ozoned
IDF concludes cluster bomb use legal
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Despite several cases during the Second Lebanon War when cluster bombs were not used within the guidelines set by the General Staff, Judge Advocate General Brig.-Gen. Avihai Mandelblit has decided not to take any legal measures against commanders who deviated from those orders, the IDF announced on Monday.


The announcement came close to a year-and-a-half after an investigation - headed by OC IDF National Defense College Maj.-Gen. Gershon Hacohen, - was launched into the military's controversial use of cluster bombs during the month-long war against Hizbullah in 2006.

Mandelblit accepted Hacohen's conclusions that, in all cases, cluster bombs were used in accordance with international law, though not necessarily the guidelines of the General Staff.

A previous probe, conducted by Brig.-Gen. Michel Ben-Baruch from the IDF's Ground Forces Command, found that the use of cluster bombs during the war did not match the orders regulated by then-chief of staff Lt.-Gen. (res.) Dan Halutz.

"The use of the weaponry was legal once it was determined that [it was needed] in order to prevent rocket fire into Israel," Mandelblit's statement read. "Its use was a concrete military necessity."

According to Hacohen's probe, the majority of cluster bombs were dropped in open and uninhabited areas and when the bomblets were dropped in urban areas it was done as an "immediate response" to target areas that were being used as launch-pads by Hizbullah guerrillas. Mandelblit said that even in cases when commanders deviated from the orders, their actions were still in accordance with international law.

Israel came under harsh criticism following the war for its use of the controversial weapon that continues to maim civilians in southern Lebanon.

Most criticism came from international human rights groups and the UN. The UN undersecretary for humanitarian affairs, Jan Egeland, defined Israel's use of cluster bombs as "immoral" and called on the countries supplying Israel with the bombs to discuss their future sales of these arms to the IDF.

The UN human rights council also passed a resolution forming a three-member committee to investigate allegations that Israel violated human rights during the war.

Mandelblit's report rejected the accusation that the IDF committed war crimes and claimed that Hizbullah's use of forestry areas left the Israeli military with no choice but to use weaponry, like cluster bombs, which provide maximum coverage within the targeted area.

Mandelblit further found that cluster bombs were fired in accordance with the military principle of distinction between combatants and civilians, and were used only when the commanding officer determined that the potential damage to civilians, as well as infrastructure, was not disproportionate to the military advantage to be gained from firing cluster bombs.

Excellent. :thumbsup: I'm sure this will put DarkThinker's mind at ease.

 

[Ozoned]

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: Ozoned
IDF concludes cluster bomb use legal
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Despite several cases during the Second Lebanon War when cluster bombs were not used within the guidelines set by the General Staff, Judge Advocate General Brig.-Gen. Avihai Mandelblit has decided not to take any legal measures against commanders who deviated from those orders, the IDF announced on Monday.


The announcement came close to a year-and-a-half after an investigation - headed by OC IDF National Defense College Maj.-Gen. Gershon Hacohen, - was launched into the military's controversial use of cluster bombs during the month-long war against Hizbullah in 2006.

Mandelblit accepted Hacohen's conclusions that, in all cases, cluster bombs were used in accordance with international law, though not necessarily the guidelines of the General Staff.

A previous probe, conducted by Brig.-Gen. Michel Ben-Baruch from the IDF's Ground Forces Command, found that the use of cluster bombs during the war did not match the orders regulated by then-chief of staff Lt.-Gen. (res.) Dan Halutz.

"The use of the weaponry was legal once it was determined that [it was needed] in order to prevent rocket fire into Israel," Mandelblit's statement read. "Its use was a concrete military necessity."

According to Hacohen's probe, the majority of cluster bombs were dropped in open and uninhabited areas and when the bomblets were dropped in urban areas it was done as an "immediate response" to target areas that were being used as launch-pads by Hizbullah guerrillas. Mandelblit said that even in cases when commanders deviated from the orders, their actions were still in accordance with international law.

Israel came under harsh criticism following the war for its use of the controversial weapon that continues to maim civilians in southern Lebanon.

Most criticism came from international human rights groups and the UN. The UN undersecretary for humanitarian affairs, Jan Egeland, defined Israel's use of cluster bombs as "immoral" and called on the countries supplying Israel with the bombs to discuss their future sales of these arms to the IDF.

The UN human rights council also passed a resolution forming a three-member committee to investigate allegations that Israel violated human rights during the war.

Mandelblit's report rejected the accusation that the IDF committed war crimes and claimed that Hizbullah's use of forestry areas left the Israeli military with no choice but to use weaponry, like cluster bombs, which provide maximum coverage within the targeted area.

Mandelblit further found that cluster bombs were fired in accordance with the military principle of distinction between combatants and civilians, and were used only when the commanding officer determined that the potential damage to civilians, as well as infrastructure, was not disproportionate to the military advantage to be gained from firing cluster bombs.

Excellent. :thumbsup: I'm sure this will put DarkThinker's mind at ease.

That was my hope.

 

[Noobtastic]

[deleted] away partisan zealots...

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: Ozoned

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: Ozoned
IDF concludes cluster bomb use legal
...

Excellent. :thumbsup: I'm sure this will put DarkThinker's mind at ease.

That was my hope.

Is that sarcasm, or did either of you honestly expect anyone to be swayed by the IDF's attempt to exonorate themselves? Surely if the other side released some report claiming their useage of weapons was all perfectly leagal you wouldn't be quick to take their word as fact?

 

[Googer]

Originally posted by: DarkThinker

Originally posted by: Acanthus
Oh yes, the poor people of lebanon and hezbollah.

:roll:

Seriously, they use civilians as human shields and israel gets fed up and bombs the fuck out of them anyway. Big shocker.

And they probably dont know where every single bombing run was, they, much like the US, have a bunch of ROE and survellience BS to do before each target is attacked.

So let me get this clear for the record. You think the killing of the civilians in Lebanon though airstrikes and cluster bombs was justified? Yes or No

They are militiants who have taken up arms against a Sovern nation, by picking up a gun to shoot at soldiers you give up your status as a civilian.

 

[Googer]

Originally posted by: Aimster
Israel used more bombs and missiles than there are Hezbollah members.

They also attacked in places where no rockets could possibly have come from.

Is that a fact?

 

[Nebor]

Originally posted by: TheSnowman

Originally posted by: Ozoned

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: Ozoned
IDF concludes cluster bomb use legal
...

Excellent. :thumbsup: I'm sure this will put DarkThinker's mind at ease.

That was my hope.

Is that sarcasm, or did either of you honestly expect anyone to be swayed by the IDF's attempt to exonorate themselves? Surely if the other side released some report claiming their useage of weapons was all perfectly leagal you wouldn't be quick to take their word as fact?

I'd readily accept anyone's report stating that Israel's use of weapons was legal.

 

[Noobtastic]

Originally posted by: Googer

Originally posted by: Aimster
Israel used more bombs and missiles than there are Hezbollah members.

They also attacked in places where no rockets could possibly have come from.

Is that a fact?

No.

Israel's attacks are in response to foreign aggressive actions. Israel is not out to conquer the world, rid the Earth of muslims, or spread Judaism to every town and city through violence and suicide bombing.

Unlike many countries, Israel does not have the privilege to pick and choose where/when to attack. They are surrounded by countries who would blow their load at the sight of a Jewish exodus, so Israel's all or nothing mentality is perfectly reasonable.

Hezbollah is sponsored by Iran and Syria, something many "humanitarian" and UN agencies tend to ignore when criticizing Israeli military response.

The fact is, Lebanon loves Hezbollah. They provide jobs, money, and resources that have been denied by the opposing muslim radicals.

They shoot a couple thousand rockets at Israel every week, and then scream bloody murder when Israel wipes them out with JUSTIFIED attacks. Then the apathetic muslim countries are suddenly concerned and join the international sandbagging even though they secretly contributed to the entire situation.

If Israel just got rid of Syria and Iran the Middle East would be a much better place. Eliminate the source instead of delaying the inevitable.

 

[Skyclad1uhm1]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: DarkThinker
So let me get this clear for the record. You think the killing of the civilians in Lebanon though airstrikes and cluster bombs was justified? Yes or No

yes.

Hezbollah intentionally used your civilian population as human shields. They are the ones responsible for the death and destruction brought to your doorstep.

The Israeli launching those attacks on Lebanon are living amongst the innocent part of the Israeli population. So I guess you also find it totally acceptable for Hezbollah to kill any innocent Israeli as they are used as human shield by those responsible anyway?

Let's give Hezbollah clusterbombs too then, to even it up a bit.

 

[Noobtastic]

The Israeli launching those attacks on Lebanon are living amongst the innocent part of the Israeli population.

Uh?

Let's give Hezbollah clusterbombs too then, to even it up a bit.

What?

 

[Czar]

Originally posted by: Googer

Originally posted by: Aimster
Israel used more bombs and missiles than there are Hezbollah members.

They also attacked in places where no rockets could possibly have come from.

Is that a fact?

http://sandrose.com/uploaded_i...uly-15-21.1-714356.jpg
yes

 

[Ozoned]

Originally posted by: DarkThinker
Israel is still refusing to provide maps to the cluster bombs the Israeli army launched into Lebanon during the Summer of 2006 conflict to the UN and Lebanese demining experts!

Wow wonder where that map came from there czar?

 

[Ozoned]

Originally posted by: TheSnowman

Originally posted by: Ozoned

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: Ozoned
IDF concludes cluster bomb use legal
...

Excellent. :thumbsup: I'm sure this will put DarkThinker's mind at ease.

That was my hope.

Is that sarcasm, or did either of you honestly expect anyone to be swayed by the IDF's attempt to exonorate themselves? Surely if the other side released some report claiming their useage of weapons was all perfectly leagal you wouldn't be quick to take their word as fact?

There are 2 sides to every issue, hence,,,, the issue. For the people that put out the propoganda, Its not important to them that you believe it, but rather that it supports your position, or marginalizes the opposing position.

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: DarkThinker
Last week a British demining expert lost his life due a cluster bomb that killed him instantly as he was sweeping for unexploded Israeli ordnance in the city of Bint Jbeil.

Guess he shouldn't have done that job. If the Lebanese don?t want to clean up, the UN shouldn?t. Anyone in that war zone signs their life away at the entrance.

Israel should only feel compelled to comply after they know with guarantee that Hezbollah will not commit further acts of war. Otherwise they?d merely be clearing the field to permit further bloodshed against them.

In fact, it appears the UN?s only role in Lebanon is to provide cover for Hezbollah to fortify its position in preparation for whatever they do next. We can only hope enough of Lebanon was destroyed in 2006 to teach them not to start another war.

 

[Czar]

Originally posted by: Ozoned

Originally posted by: DarkThinker
Israel is still refusing to provide maps to the cluster bombs the Israeli army launched into Lebanon during the Summer of 2006 conflict to the UN and Lebanese demining experts!

Wow wonder where that map came from there czar?

He asked for facts about areas Israel attacked, not what type of bombs where dropped at what place.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reading_comprehension , read it, you might learn something

 

[RichardE]

Originally posted by: DarkThinker

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
when lebanon forces groups like hezbollah to disarm then they can complain. until then theres no reason to answer their requests for anything.

and yes, smearing israel with lies, middle easts favorite sport. ranting about israel while occupying kurdish land themselves. look at turkey. the hypocrisy is amazing. even lebanon recently had to bomb a palestinian refugee camp

You just can't destroy a country and then complain about it being not able to defeat Hizbollah, Israel is raising Hizbollah's support with it's excessive force and crippling of Lebanese economy.

Otherwise, Lebanon can try to get it's Army to defeat Hizbollah, and just end up rewinding our clock a 100 years back (and Israel would LOVE THAT). No thank you, we are not falling for Israel's crap again. Israel is the one responsible for Hizbollah's founding, with their occupational practices, why should Lebanon take all the blame?

When it comes to the Palestinian refugee camp, I am not sure if your were being ironic or not, but you do know that the Lebanese Army evacuated the camp out of refugees and accommodated them in other locations, while they pounded Fatah Al-Islam after refusing to surrender and causing explosions all over the country?. Currently the government is rebuilding the camp for the Palestinians better then it was before.

I am just losing hope in a good portion of the public here, what a bunch of blood thirsty racist murderers and cowards. And I used to think Hizbollah were a bunch of crazy fanatics, now I really see where they get their inspiration from.

I just don't see how logical freedom loving people can support Israel here in the states. Everyone is brushing aside the fact that Israel is deliberately attacking and killing civilians, on the contrary people are cheering for it.
A bunch of terrorists you guys are.
How on freaking earth do you expect Hizbollah's support to dwindle down, while in the meantime, Israel carpets the South with mines and cluster bombs to indirectly kill as many civilians as possible.

I detest Hizbollah as much as the next guy and would love to see them out of Lebanon ASAP and have the brave men of the Lebanese Army take control of everything within Lebanon as they have done in North Lebanon in the Summer.

And about Turkey, what do you have now on Turkey? What does it have to do with the Arabs and Lebanon? Turkey has always been on a different page in the ME, stop throwing random cases in my face, this is not related to the OP PERIOD

Why can't people be logical about it? Lebanon is trying it's best, if not even Israel can defeat Hizbollah with their high tech US tax payer funded multi-billion dollar weapons then how on earth do you expect the much less equipped Lebanese Army to defeat them? IMAO Hizbollah can only be taken care of through a national consensus and a pan Arab peace treaty guaranteeing the return of ALL ARAB occupied land and allowing the immediate return of all Palestinian refugees that got their land occupied and taken over by Israel only then Hizbollah can be disarmed and Israel recognized. Otherwise you guys are just smoking too much HASHISH!

Spain is responsible for all the hate they have from Muslims and the bombings of there trains were actually Spain's fault entirely. We should not weep for the victims of the Madrid attacks, but instead berate Spain for being part of the west as they should have known better.

Do you teach extremist teachings Darkthinker, or are you just a troll who likes to sprout off translated sound bites from Muslim extremist sites?