Israel finally announces Gaza blockade terms

[KMFJD]

We all know what will happen if they allow everything back into Gaza....more dead Palestinians trying to attack Israel

 

[Lemon law]

We all know what will happen if they allow everything back into Gaza....more dead Palestinians trying to attack Israel

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You don't and we do know jack doodley, Israel has been strangling and obstructing the Palestinians every step of the way. Deliberately angering and provoking them past all human endurance. And then when a few of them attack Israel, Israel gets to play the part of the victim.

And so its gone for 62 years out of 62 years of Israeli history as Israel systematically consolidates its gains while the rest of the world watches, occasionally mumbles some protests, and then its back to Israeli business as usual. But still, any chance of Israeli further territorial expansion is pretty well stopped at this point, the Palestinian problem, instead of getting smaller simply keeps growing bigger, and since Israel gave back the Sinai desert back to Egypt, not an a bit of real progress towards an has occurred towards a just mid-east peace.

Two things are needed to make advancements towards that just mid-east peace.

1. An total end and then a reversal to Israeli expansion and de facto control of Gaza, the West Bank, East Jerusalem, the Golan Heights, and the Shabba farms area. In short, lands Israel does not own and can never own, but still occupies by conquest in the 1967&73 wars.

2. The right to return issue must be addressed.

In short things that should have been addressed in the early 1990's and never were.
And in short, issues Israel will not address unless forced to. And the Israeli list of excuses and rhetoric have not changed much in nearly 37 years.

But things are gradually coming to a head with a series of events in the past decade. The Israeli rape of Lebanon in 2005, the Israeli rape of Gaza in 2008, the failed Annapolis peace conference, the election of Obama, and now this latest Israeli blockade of Gaza questions.

To some extent, Obama should gets the credit ( or blame if you are pro Israeli biased) for throwing a monkey wrench into the Israeli excuse machine, because Obama has been extremely intolerant on Israeli continued settlement expansion in the West Bank and East Jerusalem. And now that Israel has finally announced the new blockade terms, it remains to be seen how Obama and the rest of the world will views those, but IMHO, Israel has not really relaxed its blockade in any meaningful way. As Israel still retains a strangle hold on any Gaza economy. And the West Bank economy as well.

But now its crunch time, as Obama and Netanyuhu are meeting as I type this, will Obama let Israel get away with making no real concessions that could lead to actual mid-east peace progress, or will the time finally be at hand when Israeli excuses will no longer be accepted? And a zero tolerance to the Israeli games of the past starts.

Only time will tell, but we should get an answer or very good clues in the next month.

 

[theeedude]

Thats a totally BS argument!!!

I can remember a time when the day before the 4th of July I was asked by a supervisor to work his shift. later th day I looked on the schedule and saw I was bumped due a senority issue....

So I called the main man and expalined that I was asked to work for another supervisor as a favor to that supervisor.

The main boss asked me what I wanted him to do?
I told him I want my shift back...

He told me me what do I tell the person who bumped you?
I told him you tell them they are not working that day!

He told me do two wrong make a right/
I told him that` s a cop out.

Needless to say -- I won out in the end! But I lost all respect for that guy!!
In some cases YES -- two wrongs are perfectly acceptable!!

Great story, bro. I had tri-tip for 4th of july BBQ. Good times.

 

[theeedude]

We all know what will happen if they allow everything back into Gaza....more dead Palestinians trying to attack Israel

Yeah, that's why they are also banning exports out of Gaza. Let me guess, allowing exports of stuff out of Gaza frees up room for building rockets? Is there Israeli propaganda you guys won't swallow?

 

[EagleKeeper]

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You don't and we do know jack doodley, Israel has been strangling and obstructing the Palestinians every step of the way. Deliberately angering and provoking them past all human endurance. And then when a few of them attack Israel, Israel gets to play the part of the victim.

And so its gone for 62 years out of 62 years of Israeli history as Israel systematically consolidates its gains while the rest of the world watches, occasionally mumbles some protests, and then its back to Israeli business as usual. But still, any chance of Israeli further territorial expansion is pretty well stopped at this point, the Palestinian problem, instead of getting smaller simply keeps growing bigger, and since Israel gave back the Sinai desert back to Egypt, not an a bit of real progress towards an has occurred towards a just mid-east peace.

Two things are needed to make advancements towards that just mid-east peace.

1. An total end and then a reversal to Israeli expansion and de facto control of Gaza, the West Bank, East Jerusalem, the Golan Heights, and the Shabba farms area. In short, lands Israel does not own and can never own, but still occupies by conquest in the 1967&73 wars.

2. The right to return issue must be addressed.

In short things that should have been addressed in the early 1990's and never were.
And in short, issues Israel will not address unless forced to. And the Israeli list of excuses and rhetoric have not changed much in nearly 37 years.

But things are gradually coming to a head with a series of events in the past decade. The Israeli rape of Lebanon in 2005, the Israeli rape of Gaza in 2008, the failed Annapolis peace conference, the election of Obama, and now this latest Israeli blockade of Gaza questions.

To some extent, Obama should gets the credit ( or blame if you are pro Israeli biased) for throwing a monkey wrench into the Israeli excuse machine, because Obama has been extremely intolerant on Israeli continued settlement expansion in the West Bank and East Jerusalem. And now that Israel has finally announced the new blockade terms, it remains to be seen how Obama and the rest of the world will views those, but IMHO, Israel has not really relaxed its blockade in any meaningful way. As Israel still retains a strangle hold on any Gaza economy. And the West Bank economy as well.

But now its crunch time, as Obama and Netanyuhu are meeting as I type this, will Obama let Israel get away with making no real concessions that could lead to actual mid-east peace progress, or will the time finally be at hand when Israeli excuses will no longer be accepted? And a zero tolerance to the Israeli games of the past starts.

Only time will tell, but we should get an answer or very good clues in the next month.

Each of the areas that you have discussed that Israel has taken control of since/after the '67/73 conflicts are a result of Israel being attacked from those areas.

Will the people that want control of those areas back, sign a peace treaty with Israel and ensure that Israel is not attacked from those areas?

And if they will not due so; why should Israel unilaterally give the buffer zone back? Gaza did not work out well for Israel.

Then if those areas are used for staging attacks; what should Israel's response be; turn the other cheek?

Israel has to consider all possibilities.

 

[Lemon law]

Each of the areas that you have discussed that Israel has taken control of since/after the '67/73 conflicts are a result of Israel being attacked from those areas.

Will the people that want control of those areas back, sign a peace treaty with Israel and ensure that Israel is not attacked from those areas?

And if they will not due so; why should Israel unilaterally give the buffer zone back? Gaza did not work out well for Israel.

Then if those areas are used for staging attacks; what should Israel's response be; turn the other cheek?

Israel has to consider all possibilities.

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In all due respects and IMHO, EagleKeeper, your argument is total bullshit fiction from beginning to end. But congratulations, you bought the Israeli propaganda hook line and sinker, just like Israel wants you do do. Maybe you need to start thinking for yourself for a change.

To start out, is any nation ever safe from attack? We in the USA certainly are not. We are still threatened with nuclear Armageddon, we have been sucker punched at Pearl Harbor and sucker punched domestically by terrorists in 911, we got our revenge against Japan, but its been far less conclusive when we deal with terrorists and other countries not happy with our foreign policy. We got our ass spanked in Vietnam, we have two big quagmires in Iraq and Afghanistan, we alienated our allies, and have bankrupted ourselves by being far more honest and less arrogant than Israel has been. Yet your EagleKeeper argument is mainly based on the premise that Israel alone among all nations should be immune to the consequences of its own domestic and foreign policy, no matter how stupid its been. Especially when internal Palestinians threats are minimal, while a tiny Nation like Israel does everything to EARN the far more dangerous hatreds of hundreds of millions of its surrounding neighbors. While insulting all its allies, including the United States and Turkey.

EagleKeeper, face the facts, Israel's best chance is in defusing the hatreds, not in building them ever higher,

But EagleKeeper you do hit the nail on the head on one thing by saying, "Israel has to consider all possibilities." And Israel has, they would rather hold on to the lands illegally captured in the 1967&73 wars, than do anything to gain any possible mid-east acceptance promised at the Start of the Annapolis peace conference.

And in so doing Israel may seal their fate, sooner or later, non Palestinian terrorists will simply use Chemical, biological, radiological, or nuclear weapons against Israel and settle all these Israeli problems for the next thousands years. If we can't find ways to fairly share Israel, maybe its just better to make it so toxic no one can live in Israel. Because there is where its heading.

As a side note, we have seen two such long standing terrorists conflicts ended, in South Africa and Ireland, and neither ended in predicted bloodbaths.

 

[JEDIYoda]

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In all due respects and IMHO, EagleKeeper, your argument is total bullshit fiction from beginning to end. But congratulations, you bought the Israeli propaganda hook line and sinker, just like Israel wants you do do. Maybe you need to start thinking for yourself for a change.

To start out, is any nation ever safe from attack? We in the USA certainly are not. We are still threatened with nuclear Armageddon, we have been sucker punched at Pearl Harbor and sucker punched domestically by terrorists in 911, we got our revenge against Japan, but its been far less conclusive when we deal with terrorists and other countries not happy with our foreign policy. We got our ass spanked in Vietnam, we have two big quagmires in Iraq and Afghanistan, we alienated our allies, and have bankrupted ourselves by being far more honest and less arrogant than Israel has been. Yet your EagleKeeper argument is mainly based on the premise that Israel alone among all nations should be immune to the consequences of its own domestic and foreign policy, no matter how stupid its been. Especially when internal Palestinians threats are minimal, while a tiny Nation like Israel does everything to EARN the far more dangerous hatreds of hundreds of millions of its surrounding neighbors. While insulting all its allies, including the United States and Turkey.

EagleKeeper, face the facts, Israel's best chance is in defusing the hatreds, not in building them ever higher,

But EagleKeeper you do hit the nail on the head on one thing by saying, "Israel has to consider all possibilities." And Israel has, they would rather hold on to the lands illegally captured in the 1967&73 wars, than do anything to gain any possible mid-east acceptance promised at the Start of the Annapolis peace conference.

And in so doing Israel may seal their fate, sooner or later, non Palestinian terrorists will simply use Chemical, biological, radiological, or nuclear weapons against Israel and settle all these Israeli problems for the next thousands years. If we can't find ways to fairly share Israel, maybe its just better to make it so toxic no one can live in Israel. Because there is where its heading.

As a side note, we have seen two such long standing terrorists conflicts ended, in South Africa and Ireland, and neither ended in predicted bloodbaths.

Whats incredible is you honestly believe the Bull Shit that you spew forth!!

Eaglekeeper is 100% right on the money!!

 

[EagleKeeper]

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In all due respects and IMHO, EagleKeeper, your argument is total bullshit fiction from beginning to end. But congratulations, you bought the Israeli propaganda hook line and sinker, just like Israel wants you do do. Maybe you need to start thinking for yourself for a change.

To start out, is any nation ever safe from attack? We in the USA certainly are not. We are still threatened with nuclear Armageddon, we have been sucker punched at Pearl Harbor and sucker punched domestically by terrorists in 911, we got our revenge against Japan, but its been far less conclusive when we deal with terrorists and other countries not happy with our foreign policy. We got our ass spanked in Vietnam, we have two big quagmires in Iraq and Afghanistan, we alienated our allies, and have bankrupted ourselves by being far more honest and less arrogant than Israel has been. Yet your EagleKeeper argument is mainly based on the premise that Israel alone among all nations should be immune to the consequences of its own domestic and foreign policy, no matter how stupid its been. Especially when internal Palestinians threats are minimal, while a tiny Nation like Israel does everything to EARN the far more dangerous hatreds of hundreds of millions of its surrounding neighbors. While insulting all its allies, including the United States and Turkey.

EagleKeeper, face the facts, Israel's best chance is in defusing the hatreds, not in building them ever higher,

But EagleKeeper you do hit the nail on the head on one thing by saying, "Israel has to consider all possibilities." And Israel has, they would rather hold on to the lands illegally captured in the 1967&73 wars, than do anything to gain any possible mid-east acceptance promised at the Start of the Annapolis peace conference.

And in so doing Israel may seal their fate, sooner or later, non Palestinian terrorists will simply use Chemical, biological, radiological, or nuclear weapons against Israel and settle all these Israeli problems for the next thousands years. If we can't find ways to fairly share Israel, maybe its just better to make it so toxic no one can live in Israel. Because there is where its heading.

As a side note, we have seen two such long standing terrorists conflicts ended, in South Africa and Ireland, and neither ended in predicted bloodbaths.

So you choose to not address the issues that I brought up?

Look at the other nations in that area currently directly involved with Israel - when were they last attacked by another country without provocation.

Turkey, Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia.
They have had stability with their neighbors - that is all Israel has requested for the past 60 years and it has been denied.

 

[yllus]

I like what someone else stated here a number of weeks ago - any negotiation with Hamas should start and end with the sentence, "Where is Gilad Shalit?"

 

[Lemon law]

But But But Yellus, Israel refuses to recognize Hamas. Israel simply pretends Hamas does not exists. How can Hamas hold any prisoners when they simply do not exist?

Do not ask me to resolve this mystery, when we must ask Israel. And after Israel has basically murdered so many innocent civilians in Gaza, why is one just one single Israeli soldier so damn important in any grand scheme of things.

Are not we getting our priorities a little warped here? We are still back to that same question, why should Israel, alone among all other nations, be immune from paying the price of a defective foreign policy.

 

[nageov3t]

why should Israel, alone among all other nations, be immune from paying the price of a defective foreign policy.

that statement is so absurd that trying to think of how to answer it literally makes my head hurt.

 

[EagleKeeper]

But But But Yellus, Israel refuses to recognize Hamas. Israel simply pretends Hamas does not exists. How can Hamas hold any prisoners when they simply do not exist?

Do not ask me to resolve this mystery, when we must ask Israel. And after Israel has basically murdered so many innocent civilians in Gaza, why is one just one single Israeli soldier so damn important in any grand scheme of things.

Are not we getting our priorities a little warped here? We are still back to that same question, why should Israel, alone among all other nations, be immune from paying the price of a defective foreign policy.

Where does Israel pretend that Hamas does not exist? Hamas created the recent problems with Israel; started conflicts & ducked its responsibilty with a treaty. Israel has had to handle those issues; not Hamas who skated with a free pass.

Why does Hamas place so little value on its people. 1000 people for a Israeli body!

And why will you not answer the questions posed in this thread to you?
this is the third time that you have skated these types of questions.

 

[KMFJD]

Yeah, that's why they are also banning exports out of Gaza. Let me guess, allowing exports of stuff out of Gaza frees up room for building rockets? Is there Israeli propaganda you guys won't swallow?

I don't want anyone to die and wish there was peace, if Gaza doesn't take steps themselves to lessen extremism it will just continue to end badly for them.

 

[Lemon law]

I don't want anyone to die and wish there was peace, if Gaza doesn't take steps themselves to lessen extremism it will just continue to end badly for them.

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While I 100% agree that KMFJD is somewhat correct, anything Hamas does does nothing but call on more Israeli repression down on Gaza civilians, but as we look at the West Bank and their policy of non Violence against Israel , their non violence gets them no where either. In short, Palestinians are fucked by Israel anyway they go.

On short, the Palestinians have no military power, and Israel denies them any ability to have any self determination, and if the larger world does not extend a helping hand to the Palestinian people, Palestinians are fucked anyway they go.

But at the end of the day, Arab charities will both support the Palestinians people and keep them from starving, and at the same time, Arabs will support external anti-Israeli terrorism to make Israel keep paying the pigs price.

So at the end of the day, will the larger world support some justice for Palestinians and thus have a chance to advance a just mid-east peace? Or will stateless terrorists be the entity that finally makes Israel see the errors of their ways?

 

[Borealis7]

But But But Yellus, Israel refuses to recognize Hamas. Israel simply pretends Hamas does not exists. How can Hamas hold any prisoners when they simply do not exist?

did you forget to take your pills again, LL?
its the other way around! Hamas doesnt recognize Israel!