Israel finally announces Gaza blockade terms

[Lemon law]

After about three weeks after Israel promised, Israel has finally released semi final details on Relaxing their blockade of Hamas and Gaza. Just ahead of an an Obama visit and under continuing demands from Turkey for an Israeli apology.

The question is and remains, is it far short of what is needed or will it advance anything. In short, it may be truth or consequences time for Israel. Not only within the USA, but also, as a somewhat independ4ent issue, in the larger world.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/mcclatchy/3...Ec2VjA3luX3RvcF9zdG9yeQRzbGsDd2l0aG9iYW1hbWVl

The two glaring things the Israeli blockade reforms do not do is. (1) Fails to allow the free entry of building materials like cement to allow rebuilding of destroyed Gaza infra structure. (2) More importantly, Israel still blockades any Gaza chances to export any goods to fuel their own economy through free trade. And at the same time Israel gets to say, see, the Palestinians in Gaza produce nothing but violence and are therefore worthless to the larger world.

But the end Issue will be if Israel is willing to allow any progress towards an independent Palestinian State, and to some extent, will Obama again allow Israel to
get away with doing everything to prevent such a Palestinian State.

Or will Obama finally say, Mr. Netanyuhu, tear down your wall!

I should also add a link from the NYT, as an example of how damn pro-Israeli biased the US press is.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/06/world/middleeast/06mideast.html?ref=global-home

Not one damn word in the whole article that that Israeli blockade has a 100% blockade of all Gaza exports.
Shame on the New York Times, near as biased as Fox news.

 

[Freshgeardude]

After about three weeks after Israel promised, Israel has finally released semi final details on Relaxing their blockade of Hamas and Gaza. Just ahead of an an Obama visit and under continuing demands from Turkey for an Israeli apology.

Israel doesnt need to apologize to turkey.

The question is and remains, is it far short of what is needed or will it advance anything. In short, it may be truth or consequences time for Israel. Not only within the USA, but also, as a somewhat independ4ent issue, in the larger world.

its better than before, but until rockets and mortars stop falling on israel and gilad shalit is returned safely, open borders are not an option

http://news.yahoo.com/s/mcclatchy/3...Ec2VjA3luX3RvcF9zdG9yeQRzbGsDd2l0aG9iYW1hbWVl

The two glaring things the Israeli blockade reforms do not do is. (1) Fails to allow the free entry of building materials like cement to allow rebuilding of destroyed Gaza infra structure.

BUNCH OF LIES! Israel is allowing construction material in under the supervision of certain organizations and countries


(2) More importantly, Israel still blockades any Gaza chances to export any goods to fuel their own economy through free trade. And at the same time Israel gets to say, see, the Palestinians in Gaza produce nothing but violence and are therefore worthless to the larger world.

Most importantly, rockets and mortars are fired from gaza. Hamas is holding Gilad Shalit hostage.

But the end Issue will be if Israel is willing to allow any progress towards an independent Palestinian State, and to some extent, will Obama again allow Israel to
get away with doing everything to prevent such a Palestinian State.

Or will Obama finally say, Mr. Netanyuhu, tear down your wall!


I should also add a link from the NYT, as an example of how damn pro-Israeli biased the US press is.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/06/world/middleeast/06mideast.html?ref=global-home

Not one damn word in the whole article that that Israeli blockade has a 100% blockade of all Gaza exports.
Shame on the New York Times, near as biased as Fox news.

once again, spewing lies and deceit because you cant read completely biased and arab sided articles.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/0...e-lets-goods-keeps-restrictions-construction/

parts of the article

The decision ends the use of a narrow and often arbitrary list of foods and consumer goods allowed into Gaza. And in a boost to the moribund Gaza economy, Israel announced that some raw materials would soon be allowed to flow to Gaza's shuttered factories.

...

But prospects for rebuilding the damage from a punishing Israeli military offensive last year remain uncertain. Materials like steel and cement, which Israel says can be diverted for use by the territory's ruling Hamas militants, would be allowed to enter only for international aid projects. And Gazans will still remained largely confined to their tiny territory.

...

The list includes items that could be used to manufacture weapons and explosives, like certain fertilizers and ball bearings — those will be barred except with specific permission. Construction materials like concrete, steel cables and asphalt, which Israel fears could be used by Hamas to build tunnels and fortifications, will be permitted only in coordination with the rival Palestinian government in the West Bank, the United Nations and other international agencies overseeing construction projects.

suck it LL.

The west bank has an economy because they aren't as violent towards israel than gaza.




So stop spewing bull shit without facts, you sound like an everlasting moron.

 

[glenn1]

Unfortunately, Hamas does have a history of using building supplies as weapons against Israel, often to their own detriment. For example, not that long ago a Palestinian village was drowned in raw sewage after local sewer cesspool failed due to militants removing material from it to make Qassam rockets. I'm not sure how easily concrete can be weaponized, but it doesn't seem completely arbitrary on Israel's part either.

 

[Lemon law]

I am not surprised that a pro Israeli fan clubber like Fresh Gear Dude would attack me as the messenger rather than address any of the larger issues. I shall promise to take the FGD message of, "suck it LL", to heart, the FGD worry should be how much longer the larger world will buy Israeli bullshit.

As for Turkey, that demands an Israeli apology, Turkey is in no position to demand an Israeli apology, but Israel may have hell to pay if they don't apologize to Turkey.

 

[Jhhnn]

Unfortunately, Hamas does have a history of using building supplies as weapons against Israel, often to their own detriment. For example, not that long ago a Palestinian village was drowned in raw sewage after local sewer cesspool failed due to militants removing material from it to make Qassam rockets. I'm not sure how easily concrete can be weaponized, but it doesn't seem completely arbitrary on Israel's part either.

citation needed.

 

[nageov3t]

I am not surprised that a pro Israeli fan clubber like Fresh Gear Dude would attack me as the messenger rather than address any of the larger issues. I shall promise to take the FGD message of, "suck it LL", to heart, the FGD worry should be how much longer the larger world will buy Israeli bullshit.

As for Turkey, that demands an Israeli apology, Turkey is in no position to demand an Israeli apology, but Israel may have hell to pay if they don't apologize to Turkey.

really? who's going to give Israel hell over not apologizing to Turkey other than people who are going to give Israel hell no matter what it does?

 

[JEDIYoda]

I am not surprised that a pro Israeli fan clubber like Fresh Gear Dude would attack me as the messenger rather than address any of the larger issues. I shall promise to take the FGD message of, "suck it LL", to heart, the FGD worry should be how much longer the larger world will buy Israeli bullshit.

As for Turkey, that demands an Israeli apology, Turkey is in no position to demand an Israeli apology, but Israel may have hell to pay if they don't apologize to Turkey.

You of all people know that you pro-Palestinian fanatics cannot be reasoned with...
So why try?
For every reason somebody gives, you have a reason why!!
It`s called one upsmanship....

As for Israel paying hell...dream on!!

 

[theeedude]

Not good enough, blockade runs should continue until only weapon imports are blocked and all civilian good imports and exports are allowed. Israel should be made to pay a price in its international standing until it comes to its senses.

 

[nageov3t]

Not good enough, blockade runs should continue until only weapon imports are blocked and all civilian good imports and exports are allowed. Israel should be made to pay a price in its international standing until it comes to its senses.

how can Israel permit an unrestricted border when Hamas won't even allow Red Cross visits to Gilad Shalit?

 

[Freshgeardude]

I am not surprised that a pro Israeli fan clubber like Fresh Gear Dude would attack me as the messenger rather than address any of the larger issues. I shall promise to take the FGD message of, "suck it LL", to heart, the FGD worry should be how much longer the larger world will buy Israeli bullshit.

As for Turkey, that demands an Israeli apology, Turkey is in no position to demand an Israeli apology, but Israel may have hell to pay if they don't apologize to Turkey.

No no no. You are not a messenger. you are the one who brings incomplete and biased data to a thread to argue over.

The LARGE ISSUES!!!! OMG!!!!

Lets ignore all of those rockets and mortars hitting civilian targets causing death, dramatic occasions, and millions, possibly even billions in damage.

No no no, the gazan people getting chocolate is more important.

Thanks for showing me the light!



Turkey can go fuck itself. Israel wont have to say shit. Turkey is in no position to threaten israel. the most it can do is break diplomatic ties which basically only hurt turkey. Turkey has been mooching off israeli technology and what does israel get in return? the ability to fly over its airspace? Saudi Arabia is letting Israel go through anyways. Israel isnt losing shit.

Secondly, Turkey is the one in thats close to hell. They have already been yelled at by the US because of its role, rather lack-thereof, in NATO AND for starting shit with Israel.


The Turkish didnt care for the flotilla when they left, only after israel defended itself and killed people did they complain. They were probably waiting for an excuse to break off ties so they can be closer to Iran.

 

[glenn1]

citation needed.

Here's two stories about it, one citing metal in the ground, the other for pipes intended for sewer repairs. A recent sewer burst and flood was blamed on residents stealing sand; it doesn't cite metal theft but I don't think that's far-fetched given the other articles.

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/Flash.aspx/122250

http://sweetness-light.com/archive/palis-use-donated-sewage-pipes-for-kassam-rockets

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...e-misery-to-gaza/story-e6frg6so-1111113243557

 

[palehorse]

[why should] Israel permit an unrestricted border when Hamas won't even allow Red Cross visits to Gilad Shalit?

/crickets

 

[theeedude]

how can Israel permit an unrestricted border when Hamas won't even allow Red Cross visits to Gilad Shalit?

Two wrongs don't make a right, does Israel want to have same moral standing as Hamas?

 

[nageov3t]

Two wrongs don't make a right, does Israel want to have same moral standing as Hamas?

it's not about making a right; my understanding at least is that one of the reasons Israel controls the borders as tightly as they do is because they don't want Hamas smuggling Gilad out of the country.

 

[theeedude]

it's not about making a right; my understanding at least is that one of the reasons Israel controls the borders as tightly as they do is because they don't want Hamas smuggling Gilad out of the country.

Huh? That's a BS reason. You fell for it?

 

[Jhhnn]

Here's two stories about it, one citing metal in the ground, the other for pipes intended for sewer repairs. A recent sewer burst and flood was blamed on residents stealing sand; it doesn't cite metal theft but I don't think that's far-fetched given the other articles.

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/Flash.aspx/122250

http://sweetness-light.com/archive/palis-use-donated-sewage-pipes-for-kassam-rockets

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...e-misery-to-gaza/story-e6frg6so-1111113243557

Yawn. None of those links support your original claim. The first 2 are from highly dubious sources, as well.

So, uhh, you think the Pals will be making rockets out of cement anytime RSN? Or that banning exports will allow them to develop the kind of job opportunities needed so that their young men might have something better to do than plot revenge against the Israelis?

Knee-jerk support of Israel abounds, regardless of their actions or those of the pals. If the pals roll over, they're pussies and deserve what they get. If they resist, they're all Terrarists! and should probably be bombed into the stone age. If the Israelis make any concessions, then they're soft on Terrar!, inviting another holocaust, and we can't have that... so forth and so on, round and round, with the Israelis never backing off far enough to actually make a deal... because they apparently don't want to do so.

With their military superiority absolute, Israel can easily re-establish the status quo anytime down the road as they see fit. Now would be a really good time to step up, show some real courage, make some concessions as necessary, because that superiority won't last forever...

Too easy, I'm sure...

 

[Lemon law]

how can Israel permit an unrestricted border when Hamas won't even allow Red Cross visits to Gilad Shalit?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

How can loki obsess about one Gilat Shalit when there are thousands of Palestinian Gilat Shilat equivalents, a thousands of Palestinian Gilatd Shalit equivlents simply murdered in cold blood by Israeli settler party members.

I agree that Gilat issue is significant, but we cannot mistake an entire forest for just one tree.

We cannot claim non Bias without looking at both sides of the issue. Does Israel allow the Red Cross to visit all the Palestinians they imprison? Does Israel even allow impartial investigations into their boarding of Ships seized in international waters?

Somehow always screaming Gilat amounts to more of a red herring than anything real in the grander scheme of things. More propaganda than preponderance. Partly truth but mainly fiction, in a language of propaganda diction.

The point being, there are no shortage of wrongs on all sides, are we going to allow those all past wrongs to all blind ourselves to the needed requirement to find the needed sets of rights to solve this mess?

 

[Lemon law]

/crickets

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am baffled about what palehorse means by citing crickets, but if palehorse thinks he will find any enlightenment by listening to crickets, it could go a long way towards explaining why palehorse is not able to understand anything about human beings or human issues.

Dare we hope, the next palehorse citation will be regarding all the human enlightenment to be found in Typhoid and Cholera.

 

[theeedude]

Looks like Israel is determined to keep paying for a failed blockade policy with its international standing, which is going to mean a stronger Hamas and a weaker Israel. Of course so called Israel "supporters" are going to be the happiest about it.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Two wrongs don't make a right, does Israel want to have same moral standing as Hamas?

Thats a totally BS argument!!!

I can remember a time when the day before the 4th of July I was asked by a supervisor to work his shift. later th day I looked on the schedule and saw I was bumped due a senority issue....

So I called the main man and expalined that I was asked to work for another supervisor as a favor to that supervisor.

The main boss asked me what I wanted him to do?
I told him I want my shift back...

He told me me what do I tell the person who bumped you?
I told him you tell them they are not working that day!

He told me do two wrong make a right/
I told him that` s a cop out.

Needless to say -- I won out in the end! But I lost all respect for that guy!!
In some cases YES -- two wrongs are perfectly acceptable!!

 

[cubby1223]

You guys are still talking about this? Get with the times, this news is so last month

It is funny, there are three 100% pro-Israel guys on the forum who will never have their opinions changed, three 100% pro-Palestine guys on the forum who will never have their opinions changed, and the rest of us don't give a shit what any of you say anymore Yet you still go at it as if you think *this time* your words will make the breakthrough and world peace comes about!

 

[Borealis7]

Does Israel allow the Red Cross to visit all the Palestinians they imprison?

you dont know jack shit. Israel is bound by the Geneva convention treaty and the Hamas prisoners are getting the full treatment according to the letter of the law. hell, their families are allowed entry from Gaza to come visit them, and israel is paying for the transportation!

 

[kylebisme]

it's not about making a right; my understanding at least is that one of the reasons Israel controls the borders as tightly as they do is because they don't want Hamas smuggling Gilad out of the country.

Israel had been enforcing a closure policy on Gaza since the '90s, and started the more severe blockade shortly after Hamas won the elections, putting Gaza on brink of implosion months before Shalit was captured. Besides, with all smuggling which goes on through the tunnels between Gaza and Egypt, Shalit could have been transferred out of Gaza long ago.

Israel is bound by the Geneva convention treaty and the Hamas prisoners are getting the full treatment according to the letter of the law.

Rather, in violation of the Geneva Conventions, [URL="http://www.icrc.org/Web/eng/siteeng0.nsf/html/gaza-news-100609"]Israel blocks Gazan families from visiting prisoners, engages in torture, and is holding at least one prisoner they refuse to even give the name of.

 

[Bateluer]

Not good enough, blockade runs should continue until only weapon imports are blocked and all civilian good imports and exports are allowed. Israel should be made to pay a price in its international standing until it comes to its senses.

Yes, how dare they tolerate Hamas constantly firing rockets over their borders. How dare they protect their own people. Shame on them, shame.

On a serious note, it sounds to me like they've come to their senses. No ships should go through the blockade, regardless of nation or reported cargo, unless its been thoroughly searched by the IDF.

 

[Murloc]

how can Israel permit an unrestricted border when Hamas won't even allow Red Cross visits to Gilad Shalit?

israelis would be capable to put commandos in a red cross truck.
They violate all the international laws by killing people in foreign states using false canadian passports and doing what they want in gaza, why wouldn't they do this?

I agree that hamas should free shalit and throwing rockets, this way israel would have less excuses, but holding a hostage actually gives them some advantages.