Israel destroyed a partly constructed Syrian nuclear reactor.

[techs]

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10...ml?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin

Israel?s air attack on Syria last month was directed against a site that Israeli and American intelligence analysts judged was a partly constructed nuclear reactor, apparently modeled on one North Korea has used to create its stockpile of nuclear weapons fuel, according to American and foreign officials with access to the intelligence reports.

The description of the target addresses one of the central mysteries surrounding the Sept. 6 attack, and suggests that Israel carried out the raid to demonstrate its determination to snuff out even a nascent nuclear project in a neighboring state. The Bush administration was divided at the time about the wisdom of Israel?s strike, American officials said, and some senior policy makers still regard the attack as premature.

Many details remain unclear, most notably how much progress the Syrians had made in construction before the Israelis struck, the role of any assistance provided by North Korea, and whether the Syrians could make a plausible case that the reactor was intended to produce electricity. In Washington and Israel, information about the raid has been wrapped in extraordinary secrecy and restricted to just a handful of officials, while the Israeli press has been prohibited from publishing information about the attack.

The New York Times reported this week that a debate had begun within the Bush administration about whether the information secretly cited by Israel to justify its attack should be interpreted by the United States as reason to toughen its approach to Syria and North Korea. In later interviews, officials made clear that the disagreements within the administration began this summer, as a debate about whether an Israeli attack on the incomplete reactor was warranted then.

The officials did not say that the administration had ultimately opposed the Israeli strike, but that Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates were particularly concerned about the ramifications of a pre-emptive strike in the absence of an urgent threat.

?There wasn?t a lot of debate about the evidence,? said one American official familiar with the intense discussions over the summer between Washington and the government of Prime Minister Ehud Olmert of Israel. ?There was a lot of debate about how to respond to it.?



Well, that explains it.
What I wonder about is when Syria started construction or indeed decided to build the reactor. Was it a result of the US invasion of Iraq and the bradadacio of the neo-cons about they were going to invade Syria next?
Did Syria really think they could build the reactor secretly? And that the Israelis wouldn't take it out?

 

[senseamp]

Condoleezza Rice "concerned about the ramifications of a pre-emptive strike in the absence of an urgent threat? "
Bwahahaha, Yeah, right. Something about this article is fishy.

 

[jman19]

Originally posted by: senseamp
Condoleezza Rice "concerned about the ramifications of a pre-emptive strike in the absence of an urgent threat? "
Bwahahaha, Yeah, right. Something about this article is fishy.

LOL she didn't seem too worried about this 4 and half years ago

 

[Lemon law]

It would seem if its only a building, that Syria would then take a page out of the Iranian play book and simply build it underground. Apparently much of the evidence for its existence was gleaned from satellite photos and very little from human intel. And the building appeared to be similar to North Korean designs.

Whats missing is the following (1) Did Syria have the Uranium 235 needed to even start a reactor? (2) Since Syria has signed the nuclear non proliferation treaty, it may have violated it by not reporting the start of construction, but would not be violating the agreement if the reactor was merely for electrical generation. (3) Since Israel reportedly has nukes, what gives them any rights to bomb a sovereign country. (4) There seems to be an almost total news blackout on this, speculation may be high but few facts are known. (5) Since this is an act of war by Israel, tell me again why Syria is not justified in aiding every proxy war terrorist organization as those terrorists groups attack Israel? (6) Tell me again how this will advance the cause of mid-east peace? (7) If the North Koreans aided the Syrians, why is not Washington not crying foul on N. Korea?

 

[1prophet]

Why are all the arab countries so quiet, and none have asked for a UN vote to condemn Israel?

 

[Idontcare]

Originally posted by: 1prophet
Why are all the arab countries so quiet, and none have asked for a UN vote to condemn Israel?

Seriously? Do you know how the UN works with these things? You don't get to even put a motion forward to the floor for debate if any one of the "5" elect to veto it beforehand. The US does a pretty good job veto'ing anything Israel would prefer not to be put to vote. As does China for their friends, and Russia, etc.

 

[Drift3r]

Facts pulled from the NYTimes article. The point is that

1.) Syria already has a small reactor in use for research purposes.

2.) They are allowed to build a nuclear reactor for energy needs if they want too as defined in the treaty they signed.

3.) They do not have to disclose the building of a nuclear reactor in it's early stages as defined again in the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty.

The White House is in a bind because Syria has done nothing to violate the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty. Many in fact in the White House feel Israel reacted without merit or without any factual basis in which to strike Syria based on any meaningful known malicious intent. All we have here are the assumptions from people who have no clue about the nature of the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty Syria signed. It's basically people thinking "ZOMG T3HY HAVE THE B0MB !!!" and of course Israel's trigger happy responses and policies.

Even though it has signed the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty, Syria would not have been obligated to declare the existence of a reactor during the early phases of construction. It would have also had the legal right to complete construction of the reactor, as long as its purpose was to generate electricity.

Syria is known to have only one nuclear reactor, a small one built for research purposes. But in the past decade, Syria has several times sought unsuccessfully to buy one, first from Argentina, then from Russia. On those occasions, Israel reacted strongly but did not threaten military action. Earlier this year, Mr. Assad spoke publicly in general terms about Syria?s desire to develop nuclear power, but his government did not announce a plan to build a new reactor.

 

[1prophet]

Originally posted by: Idontcare

Originally posted by: 1prophet
Why are all the arab countries so quiet, and none have asked for a UN vote to condemn Israel?

Seriously? Do you know how the UN works with these things? You don't get to even put a motion forward to the floor for debate if any one of the "5" elect to veto it beforehand. The US does a pretty good job veto'ing anything Israel would prefer not to be put to vote. As does China for their friends, and Russia, etc.

You mean they are not allowed to ask for a vote like they did last year.


U.S. Vetoes U.N. Condemnation of Israel

The draft, sponsored by Qatar on behalf of other Arab nations, accused Israel of a "disproportionate use of force" that endangered Palestinian civilians, and demanded Israel withdraw its troops from Gaza.

The United States was alone in voting against the resolution. Ten of the 15 Security Council nations voted in favor, while Britain, Denmark, Peru and Slovakia abstained.

How can you veto something that is not brought before the UN for a vote?

 

[Aimster]

So Egypt and Saudi Arabia can build nuclear plants but Syria cannot.

This report makes no sense. Unless the whole point of the attack was to say "Iran you're next".

Cause Syria building a nuclear plant is not a threat to anyone. With their economy it would take them years to build. They don't even have money for a military. They have to beg people for money to buy weapons.

 

[jman19]

Originally posted by: Aimster
So Egypt and Saudi Arabia can build nuclear plants but Syria cannot.

This report makes no sense. Unless the whole point of the attack was to say "Iran you're next".

Cause Syria building a nuclear plant is not a threat to anyone. With their economy it would take them years to build. They don't even have money for a military. They have to beg people for money to buy weapons.

You don't see the difference between Egypt/Saudi Arabia and Syria, at least in Israel's eyes? Wow...

 

[BrownTown]

Israel doesn't exactly play by the rules ya know, its not like they really think they need anyone else's permission to do something. There is a reason Israel is the most hated country in the world (not my opinion, just fact fwiw), and these types of attacks are exactly why. I'm not gonna say I feel bad about Israel going out a bombing a Syrian nuclear plant, I would just as soon Syria didn't have one too, but it ain't exactly make the US look good for supporting all these unilateral preemptive strikes. I mean if you just look at it objectively and don't look at the names of the countries involved its clear that the USA and Israel are the aggressors here and the Muslim nations are on the defensive. Again, just the facts, not trying to put any moral implications to them.

 

[Aimster]

Originally posted by: jman19

Originally posted by: Aimster
So Egypt and Saudi Arabia can build nuclear plants but Syria cannot.

This report makes no sense. Unless the whole point of the attack was to say "Iran you're next".

Cause Syria building a nuclear plant is not a threat to anyone. With their economy it would take them years to build. They don't even have money for a military. They have to beg people for money to buy weapons.

You don't see the difference between Egypt/Saudi Arabia and Syria, at least in Israel's eyes? Wow...

are you kidding me?

how is this for your "wow".
Answer this question: What is the current relationship between Saudi Arabia and Israel?

Saudi Arabia = massive military
Syria = poop military

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: 1prophet
Why are all the arab countries so quiet, and none have asked for a UN vote to condemn Israel?

Good question. If Syria's action were legal under the treaty, one would expect them to complain loudly.

Why is everyone so quiet? Curious?

Fern

 

[Aimster]

Originally posted by: Fern

Originally posted by: 1prophet
Why are all the arab countries so quiet, and none have asked for a UN vote to condemn Israel?

Good question. If Syria's action were legal under the treaty, one would expect them to complain loudly.

Why is everyone so quiet? Curious?

Fern

Because nobody is coming out and officially saying what happened. Syria said an empty military building was hit. Israel is not saying anything other than successful mission.

 

[jman19]

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: jman19

Originally posted by: Aimster
So Egypt and Saudi Arabia can build nuclear plants but Syria cannot.

This report makes no sense. Unless the whole point of the attack was to say "Iran you're next".

Cause Syria building a nuclear plant is not a threat to anyone. With their economy it would take them years to build. They don't even have money for a military. They have to beg people for money to buy weapons.

You don't see the difference between Egypt/Saudi Arabia and Syria, at least in Israel's eyes? Wow...

are you kidding me?

how is this for your "wow".
Answer this question: What is the current relationship between Saudi Arabia and Israel?

Saudi Arabia = massive military
Syria = poop military

What does the size of their militaries have to do with this? The Saudi's reject Israel, but unlike Syria, they have not done so through violence but through embargos. Israel's history with Syria is far bloodier and animosity still remains...

 

[Aimster]

Because Saudi Arabia is not right next to Israel. How do you think Syria built their military? That is how Arabs fight. One side fights and the others provide the weapons/funding and sit back and watch. Saudi Arabia might not have been physically involved in a war with Israel, but it sure as hell was part of the funding for the campaign against Israel.

Syria will never attack Israel again. If Syria had any balls at all they would have launched rocket attacks into Israel for their air attack. The leadership of Syria is more focused on survival.
Assad is a coward and this weakness benefits Israel.

 

[Lemon law]

Originally posted by: Aimster
Because Saudi Arabia is not right next to Israel. How do you think Syria built their military? That is how Arabs fight. One side fights and the others provide the weapons/funding and sit back and watch. Saudi Arabia might not have been physically involved in a war with Israel, but it sure as hell was part of the funding for the campaign against Israel.

Syria will never attack Israel again. If Syria had any balls at all they would have launched rocket attacks into Israel for their air attack. The leadership of Syria is more focused on survival.
Assad is a coward and this weakness benefits Israel.

No Aimster, Assad is not a fool and will pick different battlegrounds. There will be an future Israeli price to pay and mid-east peace is not advanced. That is the reality that should not be celebrated. Even if someone else avenges a weak Syria.

So is the never ending 60 year calculus of tit for tat violence in the mid-east. If might made right, Israel would have won long ago. Israel's long term safety is as elusive as ever. The UN who created Israel may at some future time uncreate it if Israel does not start being more wise.

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: 1prophet
Why are all the arab countries so quiet, and none have asked for a UN vote to condemn Israel?

Their brethren kill each other as much as they kill us. They have reason to fear nuclear weapons in their own backyard.

 

[blackllotus]

Originally posted by: 1prophet
Why are all the arab countries so quiet, and none have asked for a UN vote to condemn Israel?

Probably because Israeli intelligence was correct and they did, in fact, strike a nuclear site.

 

[jman19]

Originally posted by: Aimster
Because Saudi Arabia is not right next to Israel. How do you think Syria built their military? That is how Arabs fight. One side fights and the others provide the weapons/funding and sit back and watch. Saudi Arabia might not have been physically involved in a war with Israel, but it sure as hell was part of the funding for the campaign against Israel.

Syria will never attack Israel again. If Syria had any balls at all they would have launched rocket attacks into Israel for their air attack. The leadership of Syria is more focused on survival.
Assad is a coward and this weakness benefits Israel.

Yes and that is why Syria gets treated differently, genius. As a neighbor who has had a violent relationship with Israel and does its own share of funneling weapons to Israel's enemies, it is a bigger target for Israel.

 

[Aimster]

Originally posted by: jman19

Originally posted by: Aimster
Because Saudi Arabia is not right next to Israel. How do you think Syria built their military? That is how Arabs fight. One side fights and the others provide the weapons/funding and sit back and watch. Saudi Arabia might not have been physically involved in a war with Israel, but it sure as hell was part of the funding for the campaign against Israel.

Syria will never attack Israel again. If Syria had any balls at all they would have launched rocket attacks into Israel for their air attack. The leadership of Syria is more focused on survival.
Assad is a coward and this weakness benefits Israel.

Yes and that is why Syria gets treated differently, genius. As a neighbor who has had a violent relationship with Israel and does its own share of funneling weapons to Israel's enemies, it is a bigger target for Israel.

Syria has chemical weapons.
Syria is not giving anyone chemical weapons. What the hell makes anyone think they would give them nuclear weapons?

Saudi Arabia is a fanatical regime with fanatical people behind the show. You obviously do not know what the hell is going on inside Saudi Arabia and what their mindset is.

Saudi Arabia gives people funds and weapons. People who fought Israel. Yet you are claiming that they are not a threat to Israel so it is OK for them to build nuclear technology.

 

[Lemon law]

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: jman19

Originally posted by: Aimster
Because Saudi Arabia is not right next to Israel. How do you think Syria built their military? That is how Arabs fight. One side fights and the others provide the weapons/funding and sit back and watch. Saudi Arabia might not have been physically involved in a war with Israel, but it sure as hell was part of the funding for the campaign against Israel.

Syria will never attack Israel again. If Syria had any balls at all they would have launched rocket attacks into Israel for their air attack. The leadership of Syria is more focused on survival.
Assad is a coward and this weakness benefits Israel.

Yes and that is why Syria gets treated differently, genius. As a neighbor who has had a violent relationship with Israel and does its own share of funneling weapons to Israel's enemies, it is a bigger target for Israel.

Syria has chemical weapons.
Syria is not giving anyone chemical weapons. What the hell makes anyone think they would give them nuclear weapons?

Saudi Arabia is a fanatical regime with fanatical people behind the show. You obviously do not know what the hell is going on inside Saudi Arabia and what their mindset is.

Saudi Arabia gives people funds and weapons. People who fought Israel. Yet you are claiming that they are not a threat to Israel so it is OK for them to build nuclear technology.

Aimster you obviously do not know what is going on in the fanatical peabrain of GWB&co.
GWB&co. is the number one threat to America when you talk fantical. After all you conceded Syria is rational enough not to use its chemical weapons. Sorry, I have zero faith in the rationality of GWB&co.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: Lemon law

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: jman19

Originally posted by: Aimster
Because Saudi Arabia is not right next to Israel. How do you think Syria built their military? That is how Arabs fight. One side fights and the others provide the weapons/funding and sit back and watch. Saudi Arabia might not have been physically involved in a war with Israel, but it sure as hell was part of the funding for the campaign against Israel.

Syria will never attack Israel again. If Syria had any balls at all they would have launched rocket attacks into Israel for their air attack. The leadership of Syria is more focused on survival.
Assad is a coward and this weakness benefits Israel.

Yes and that is why Syria gets treated differently, genius. As a neighbor who has had a violent relationship with Israel and does its own share of funneling weapons to Israel's enemies, it is a bigger target for Israel.

Syria has chemical weapons.
Syria is not giving anyone chemical weapons. What the hell makes anyone think they would give them nuclear weapons?

Saudi Arabia is a fanatical regime with fanatical people behind the show. You obviously do not know what the hell is going on inside Saudi Arabia and what their mindset is.

Saudi Arabia gives people funds and weapons. People who fought Israel. Yet you are claiming that they are not a threat to Israel so it is OK for them to build nuclear technology.

Aimster you obviously do not know what is going on in the fanatical peabrain of GWB&co.
GWB&co. is the number one threat to America when you talk fantical. After all you conceded Syria is rational enough not to use its chemical weapons. Sorry, I have zero faith in the rationality of GWB&co.

That's why he needs to stay in office where he can't do any harm.

 

[DarkThinker]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
It would seem if its only a building, that Syria would then take a page out of the Iranian play book and simply build it underground. Apparently much of the evidence for its existence was gleaned from satellite photos and very little from human intel. And the building appeared to be similar to North Korean designs.

Whats missing is the following (1) Did Syria have the Uranium 235 needed to even start a reactor? (2) Since Syria has signed the nuclear non proliferation treaty, it may have violated it by not reporting the start of construction, but would not be violating the agreement if the reactor was merely for electrical generation. (3) Since Israel reportedly has nukes, what gives them any rights to bomb a sovereign country. (4) There seems to be an almost total news blackout on this, speculation may be high but few facts are known. (5) Since this is an act of war by Israel, tell me again why Syria is not justified in aiding every proxy war terrorist organization as those terrorists groups attack Israel? (6) Tell me again how this will advance the cause of mid-east peace? (7) If the North Koreans aided the Syrians, why is not Washington not crying foul on N. Korea?

Originally posted by: BrownTown
Israel doesn't exactly play by the rules ya know, its not like they really think they need anyone else's permission to do something. There is a reason Israel is the most hated country in the world (not my opinion, just fact fwiw), and these types of attacks are exactly why. I'm not gonna say I feel bad about Israel going out a bombing a Syrian nuclear plant, I would just as soon Syria didn't have one too, but it ain't exactly make the US look good for supporting all these unilateral preemptive strikes. I mean if you just look at it objectively and don't look at the names of the countries involved its clear that the USA and Israel are the aggressors here and the Muslim nations are on the defensive. Again, just the facts, not trying to put any moral implications to them.

/thread

 

[ericlp]

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: jman19

Originally posted by: Aimster
Because Saudi Arabia is not right next to Israel. How do you think Syria built their military? That is how Arabs fight. One side fights and the others provide the weapons/funding and sit back and watch. Saudi Arabia might not have been physically involved in a war with Israel, but it sure as hell was part of the funding for the campaign against Israel.

Syria will never attack Israel again. If Syria had any balls at all they would have launched rocket attacks into Israel for their air attack. The leadership of Syria is more focused on survival.
Assad is a coward and this weakness benefits Israel.

Yes and that is why Syria gets treated differently, genius. As a neighbor who has had a violent relationship with Israel and does its own share of funneling weapons to Israel's enemies, it is a bigger target for Israel.

Syria has chemical weapons.
Syria is not giving anyone chemical weapons. What the hell makes anyone think they would give them nuclear weapons?

Saudi Arabia is a fanatical regime with fanatical people behind the show. You obviously do not know what the hell is going on inside Saudi Arabia and what their mindset is.

Saudi Arabia gives people funds and weapons. People who fought Israel. Yet you are claiming that they are not a threat to Israel so it is OK for them to build nuclear technology.

Maybe Syria will trade some nukes from Iran for some of their chemical weapons??

Sigh...