Israel confirms Golan expansion

[Czar]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/3358797.stm

Israel has announced a $60m plan to build homes for thousands of new settlers on the occupied Golan Heights.

Agriculture Minister Yisrael Katz says the population will rise by 50% over three years to strengthen Israel's grip on the land seized from Syria in 1967.

Syria has reacted angrily, saying sovereignty should be resolved by international law, not military power.

Recently, Syrian President Bashar al-Asad has called for renewed talks over return of the Golan.

"The aim is to send an unequivocal message: the Golan is an integral part of Israel," Mr Katz told Israeli public radio.

Correspondents called the move a slap in the face to President Assad, whose attempt to restart negotiations comes after four years of deadlock in peace talks.

:disgust:

 

[EagleKeeper]

Syria wants the Golan Heights for the strategic military value. They had it and lost it.
They have resisted peace with Israel for the past 30 years while Assad was in charge.
They still act as a way station for Hamas and have open borders for the Iraq problem.

West Bank/Gaza again without the sympathy factor able to come into play.

 

[JackStorm]

heh...nice one. Just stuff even more people (or should I say future victims?) on disputed land. Nice going. But whatever, as the pro-Israeli people will say "It's their own fault for attacking Israel". Syria should just forget about that piece of land. They lost it and aren't getting it back. That's just how things are when Israel gets a hold of land (or any other country for that matter)

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: JackStorm
heh...nice one. Just stuff even more people (or should I say future victims?) on disputed land. Nice going. But whatever, as the pro-Israeli people will say "It's their own fault for attacking Israel". Syria should just forget about that piece of land. They lost it and aren't getting it back. That's just how things are when Israel gets a hold of land (or any other country for that matter)

The Golan has a strategic value for Syria. The elevation allows easy artillary access to northern Israel settlements.
If was offered to Syria in exchange for peace, Assad rejected the offer.

 

[JackStorm]

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
The Golan has a strategic value for Syria. The elevation allows easy artillary access to northern Israel settlements.

I know, I remember all the fuzz that was made over that bit of land.

If was offered to Syria in exchange for peace, Assad rejected the offer.

It was? Don't remember reading/hearing about that. Got an url or something? I'd be interested in reading up on that offer.

 

[Czar]

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper

Originally posted by: JackStorm
heh...nice one. Just stuff even more people (or should I say future victims?) on disputed land. Nice going. But whatever, as the pro-Israeli people will say "It's their own fault for attacking Israel". Syria should just forget about that piece of land. They lost it and aren't getting it back. That's just how things are when Israel gets a hold of land (or any other country for that matter)

The Golan has a strategic value for Syria. The elevation allows easy artillary access to northern Israel settlements.
If was offered to Syria in exchange for peace, Assad rejected the offer.

its more important to Israel though since they get 1/3 of their drinking water from that area

 

[Martin]

"Mr. Sharon also indicated that Israel would not comply with any Syrian condition that Israel agree in principle to give up the Golan ? a strategic plateau captured from Syria in 1967 ? before the opening of talks between the bitter enemies. Israel has annexed the Golan, though no country recognizes its rule there."

I suppose that includes the US? Interesting indeed.
http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20031231.wgolan1231/BNStory/International/

 

[replicator]

"Hard-line Agriculture Minister Yisrael Katz, who initiated the expansion, said he aimed to make it more difficult for any Israeli government to return the strategic plateau to Syria -- Damascus' top demand for a peace deal

The plan aims to draw around 900 more families to the Golan, where 18,000 Israelis currently live in settlements built since Israel seized the strategic plateau from Syria in 1967."

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/international/AP-Israel-Syria.html


Israel is just taking more ahead of negotiations, so in the end they give less. This is the same strategy used against the Palestinians... Take as much as you can, then give back as little as possible.

 

[0roo0roo]

serves them right. the last time the syrians had the golan they spent all their time shelling israeli civilians with artilery and whatever else they had. people had to sleep in bomb shelters for 19 years. northern israeli roads had to be continuely swept for mines snuck in by militants. they participated in two wars that cost countless lives. they lost the wars, they don't deserve their high ground back.

 

[Zebo]

Israel confirms Golan expansion

LOL.. Jews had the best instructors during WWII, hell maybe they'll unite again and rule the world.

 

[0roo0roo]

Israel is just taking more ahead of negotiations, so in the end they give less. This is the same strategy used against the Palestinians... Take as much as you can, then give back as little as possible.

negotiations? are you kidding? syria never wanted peace with israel, they continue to basically adhere to the original "no peace with israel, no recognition of israel, no negotiations with israel" of the the khartoum resolutions, they are technically still at war. http://www.mfa.gov.il/mfa/go.asp?MFAH00pu0 they consider israel fictitious. other states relationship with israel look practically angelic when compared. they supported artilery and attacks using mines, snipers etc against civilians for 19 years before the golan was taken from them. they now have as more tanks and weapons then israel, they make hundreds of tons of chemical weapons, and have hundreds of scuds capable of delivering them. even as recently as 96-97 they were threatening war and moving troops in threatening fashion. with their history, and continued sheltering of militants and support of terrorism, giving back the golan is out of the question.

 

[Czar]

0roo0roo,
have you lived in Israel or are you jewish?... or both?
just curious

 

[pg22]

Heh, I was just at the Golan Heights. I have some beautiful pics too

 

[Czar]

Originally posted by: pg22
Heh, I was just at the Golan Heights. I have some beautiful pics too

please post then

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: Czar
0roo0roo,
have you lived in Israel or are you jewish?... or both?
just curious

closest i've been is hong kong or england, whichever is closer i dunno.
and no i'm not. are you palestinian?

 

[zengeos]

There is some beautiful geology on the Golan....You still have to stick to posted paths and roads though because there are still thousands of undetonated, undiscovered mines from when Syria held the Golan. It's pretty rugged terrain. The Syrian pillboxes overlooking the Israeli farmland and Sea of Galilee are very noticeable.

As for the whole land for peace idea...Israel, almost immediately after the Six Day War...and again after the Yom Kippur War, offered to exchange the catured land for peace. As the Israeli representative was speaking on this at the UN, the Arab block walked out...en masse.

Mark-

 

[Jhhnn]

Israel is just taking more ahead of negotiations, so in the end they give less. This is the same strategy used against the Palestinians... Take as much as you can, then give back as little as possible.

The current Likud govt intends to give back nothing- not now, not ever. Negotiations are merely a ploy, a smokescreen, a tool of deception. They'll never make any meaningful concessions, and will continue to find some reason, any reason to proceed down the path to greater Israel and the fulfillment of Biblical Prophesy. The Golan is part of that vision.

For reasons obscure, the Syrians were not participants in the great buy-off of Israel's rivals by the US- that being Egypt and Jordan. Their ongoing hostility to Israel is a natural consequence of the past and present occupation of their territory. The Golan isn't just a strategic asset, it's also an economic asset, particularly in terms of water and agriculture.

Exploiting the presence of American troops in Iraq, the Likudniks have chosen the present as the time to increase settlement activities in the Golan. Without that presence, the likelihood of the Syrians responding with force would be relatively high- It's their territory, and they'll resist more permanent settlement and occupation for obvious reasons.

they now have as more tanks and weapons then israel, they make hundreds of tons of chemical weapons, and have hundreds of scuds capable of delivering them. even as recently as 96-97 they were threatening war and moving troops in threatening fashion. with their history, and continued sheltering of militants and support of terrorism, giving back the golan is out of the question.

None of which you've actually substantiated, all of which pales in reference to Israel's nuclear arsenal, and the presence of Uncle Sam as backup...

As for the whole land for peace idea...Israel, almost immediately after the Six Day War...and again after the Yom Kippur War, offered to exchange the catured land for peace. As the Israeli representative was speaking on this at the UN, the Arab block walked out...en masse.

Not exactly. The Israelis offered to negotiate, and we've seen what that actually means many times before. Not that the Arab states are blameless in this matter, but we'll see no resolution until the Israelis give up the concept of establishing a state based on prophecy, expropriation of territory, and expulsion/repression of native populations.

If we're serious about actually establishing peace in the region, we'll need another regime change- in Israel. Entertaining notions to the contrary is basically a state of denial, utterly foolish and self defeating. There are reasonable people in Israel and Palestine, as we've seen from the recent unofficial Geneva agreements. We need to do all we reasonably can to help their efforts become the basis for real peace and mutual respect.

 

[zengeos]

Not exactly. The Israelis offered to negotiate, and we've seen what that actually means many times before. Not that the Arab states are blameless in this matter, but we'll see no resolution until the Israelis give up the concept of establishing a state based on prophecy, expropriation of territory, and expulsion/repression of native populations.

Exactly. The point being.. Israel offered/sugested. an exchange of land for peace. Egypt, after only around 10 years, actually took them up on the offer. ...and they negotiated the entire Sinai Peninsula back. Egypt basically refused to take the Gaza Strip back. Now, after nearly two generations of little to no movement on the negotiation end, and greater and greater costs to Israel, it's doubtful they will be willing to give all the captured land back. To expect them to do so is naive or foolish at the least. If the Arab countries had sued for peace within the first 10 years, it's likely Israel would have given back nearly everything (unlikely that they would give back their holiest religious sites after they were desecrated between 1949 and 1967.

Mark-

 

[Czar]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Originally posted by: Czar
0roo0roo,
have you lived in Israel or are you jewish?... or both?
just curious

closest i've been is hong kong or england, whichever is closer i dunno.
and no i'm not. are you palestinian?

hehe no

 

[0roo0roo]

For reasons obscure, the Syrians were not participants in the great buy-off of Israel's rivals by the US- that being Egypt and Jordan. Their ongoing hostility to Israel is a natural consequence of the past and present occupation of their territory. The Golan isn't just a strategic asset, it's also an economic asset, particularly in terms of water and agriculture.

obscure? they subscribed to no peace for israel, no recognition of israel, and no negotiations with israel and have stuck to it. what was israel occupying in 49? ah yes, israel only. in 67? ah yes, they only occupied the golan after war. and still in 73. each time in wars for its survival against those who would wipe it out, not for some silly land grab. all the time that syria held the golan they used it to conduct attacks on civilians using artilery and militants. syria doesn't deserve it back, they cannot be trusted. i'm not sure you want to be defending these people. they too are "occupiers" u hate so much.

None of which you've actually substantiated, all of which pales in reference to Israel's nuclear arsenal, and the presence of Uncle Sam as backup...

how niave are you. you think the syrians are growing daisies after they lost two wars? no, they've been building up their military. Syria has engaged in an illegal military occupation of lebanon, not for self-defense purposes but for aggressive purposes, since 1975. israel can be trusted to use nukes only in self defence, as they really only would be used in a situation where everything was already lost. they live in a ocean of enemies who have consistently made war, consistently targeted civilians immediately in war, consistently still breed hatred against them, and they have no where to run.

so really? what kind of defense is that? i can't substantiate that syria has a military and scuds and chemical weapons? its common knowledge. how lazy are you. here, i put it in for you, have fun. http://www.google.com/search?q=syria+AND+chemical+weapons&sourceid=mozilla-search&start=0&start=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

and well their support and harboring of terrorists who spend their time killing civilians, well thats pretty common knowledge too.

funny how you hate israel because its supposedly based on religion, yet a democracy. and defend syria, a military dictatorship. one that has an abominable human rights record and an occupier.


you talk of peace and giving back land, based on your ignorance, facilitating a fantasy world where israel has to always shoulder the burden of peace, even with monsters who would deny it and have always denied it.

 

[zengeos]

The current Likud govt intends to give back nothing- not now, not ever. Negotiations are merely a ploy, a smokescreen, a tool of deception. They'll never make any meaningful concessions, and will continue to find some reason, any reason to proceed down the path to greater Israel and the fulfillment of Biblical Prophesy. The Golan is part of that vision.

1. It was Likud that gave back ALL of the Sinai...even though at least 20-30% of the Sinai can be considered part of Ancient Biblical Israel.

It was Likud that negotiated peace with Jordan...even though *Greater Israel* of yore extended to BOTH sides of the Jordan and well beyond the current depth in the Golan.

Your assertions don't hold water against the FACTS of what has already transpired or even against the negotiated settlements thus far with the Palestinian Authority.

Are there some hard liners in Israel who push for a *Greater Israel*? Absolutely! About 5% of the population....as opposed to about 60% of the population who are willing to give up 90-95% of the captured territory in exchange for peace and an additional 30% or so who would give up a sizable portion of the captured lands for peace.

You must take the Iranian newspapers I have read from as 100% truth!

Mark-